Speculation: Armchair GM Thread VIII - We've Tried Nothing! And we have all kinds of ideas!

[super6646]

This is where advanced stats are incredibly misleading without full context.
I'm not saying Oliver Kylington isn't a fine top 4 defender; he's paired well with Tanev and for most of the season, especially at the start, he was a key ingredient on the Flames top 4. His play has fallen off significantly, but it sort of it what it is; this is the most amount of hockey the guy's played in years now, especially when factoring ice time.

But again, context:
- On ice goal% is sort of a weird stat to use when we're talking about #1D. In the top five this year, we have Tony DeAngelo, Justin Faulk and Alex Goligoski. I don't think anyone views those guys as such, they're offensive Dmen.
-xGF%, he's 4th on the team from our D alone. I also have a hard time making more correlation there; Sandin and Liljegren are among the top in the league and they're Toronto's buried 3rd pair.
-SC% he's first on our team for... but to be fair, the other guys range from 12th-18th in the league and are separated by near nothing.

In terms of scoring, you love to see guys produce at 5v5.
But again, context. He's fourth on Calgary for primary points, and 62nd-82nd league wide in that category; so it's great he's picking up secondary assists; I don't personally differentiate much between the two but the way this top line has been playing, one solid outlet pass and those guys make magic happen

Perfectly fine calling him a valuable member of this team; and a solid contributor to our top 4. Have a very hard time saying he's a #1 top pairing caliber defender... especially when the team was looking to move him down the roster again with Lindholm. But to each their own.

He's still better than when Andersson got his 4.5m dollar contract imo. He's fallen off as of late, but if we could lock him up for 4.5x6 I take the chance.

 

[Volica]

He's still better than when Andersson got his 4.5m dollar contract imo. He's fallen off as of late, but if we could lock him up for 4.5x6 I take the chance.

They gave Andersson that contract for what he could be versus what he was at the time though; the hit that one out of the park.
Our #1D and #1C are signed for less than 10M for multiple seasons

Dunno. Like I said, I think Oliver's been excellent this season; especially the first 75% of it when he was full on heater... but he's still clearly the 4th best defender on the team... and you add on they were trying to upgrade him at the deadline, and how hard Treliving is in general with RFA's... I don't think they'll give him long term or a contract that matches the other three guys anymore. I think if he hits the 4's it'll be very short term (2 years).

 

[HighLifeMan]

I see a one year bridge deal for Oliver around 3M. Let's not forget this was a waiver wire defender a year ago who had just 8 games played last season.

 

[HighLifeMan]

I could also see a Kevin Labanc type situation where an incredibly cheap one year deal is signed to help the team short term with a handshake agreement in place for a long term deal for the player to be signed at a later date.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

They gave Andersson that contract for what he could be versus what he was at the time though; the hit that one out of the park.
Our #1D and #1C are signed for less than 10M for multiple seasons

My concerns with Kylington (and even Mangiapane TBQH) are twofold:
1. Arbitration, which will look at stats and comparable players.
2. Offer sheet, which is a very real possibility for either player, and I'm not sure I'd trade either for a 1st 2nd & 3rd round draft pick (which is the roughly $6-$8 million range)

I do like the idea of a one year "bridge" with a long-term contract extension on the table July 1st. Hopefully someone from the Flames org reads this and realizes this might be a good solution to a wicked problem like this. (I can be hired at a reasonable rate guys!)

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Friedman suggesting in his 32 thoughts that Calgary got close to a deal with Anaheim for Lindholm and that the deal would have included Monohan … Lindholm isn’t exactly a need for us but if Tre was somehow able to turn Monohan into a legit top 4D AND clear his salary for us next season, the man would have been paraded around town be nominated for gm of the year! Lol. Wonder what the + would have been from us in a deal like that

Saw that... i imagine pretty big + involved
You figure boston paid 1st + 2 2nds + solid prospect with a much lesser cap dump involved.

But i am interested to see if Anaheim takes Monohan in the offseason anyway.... we are retooling and cap wise it looks like Calgary could use a little breathing room to resign guys like kylington tkachuck magniapane and JG

 

[Volica]

For someone willing to do a deeper dive on this, would something like this work in the offseason:

- Sign Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Mangiapane and Kylington.
- Make moves to get to about 7.5M over the cap.
- Trade Sean Monahan to Montreal for Shea Weber. Immediately LTIRetire Shea Weber.

Does that open up a ACSL of Weber's contract? The LTIR rules are a bit complicated, then you add in the 10% offseason limit... like if we ate into that 10% then LTIR, do you get that in ACSL back?

 

[Tofveve]

My concerns with Kylington (and even Mangiapane TBQH) are twofold:
1. Arbitration, which will look at stats and comparable players.
2. Offer sheet, which is a very real possibility for either player, and I'm not sure I'd trade either for a 1st 2nd & 3rd round draft pick (which is the roughly $6-$8 million range)

I do like the idea of a one year "bridge" with a long-term contract extension on the table July 1st. Hopefully someone from the Flames org reads this and realizes this might be a good solution to a wicked problem like this. (I can be hired at a reasonable rate guys!)

As much as I like Mangey, he certainly hit it out of the park this year regarding goals. But a cooler head/judgment thinks he's closer to a 20 goal man and 4-5 mill price-tag (Backs kind of stats and money). The contract length is probably also closer to 3 or 4 years as opposed to anything long term. He's far from established as an upper end player. Hopefully arbitration would come to a similar conclusion.

 

[TheHudlinator]

For someone willing to do a deeper dive on this, would something like this work in the offseason:

- Sign Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Mangiapane and Kylington.
- Make moves to get to about 7.5M over the cap.
- Trade Sean Monahan to Montreal for Shea Weber. Immediately LTIRetire Shea Weber.

Does that open up a ACSL of Weber's contract? The LTIR rules are a bit complicated, then you add in the 10% offseason limit... like if we ate into that 10% then LTIR, do you get that in ACSL back?

You need to have enough cap room for Weber to be on the cap day 1 of the league year to get the added benefit of putting him on LTIR and even with moving Monahan there is no way to get weber on the roster to start the year

 

[ottawa]

Someone just dropped Mangiapane in my league...should I pick him up? Seems like he's really cooled down since he's been on the 3rd line, what gives with the demotion?

 

[Anglesmith]

Someone just dropped Mangiapane in my league...should I pick him up? Seems like he's really cooled down since he's been on the 3rd line, what gives with the demotion?

We have an interchangeable middle six. Not really a demotion. His situation isn't much different than before.

 

[ottawa]

We have an interchangeable middle six. Not really a demotion. His situation isn't much different than before.

So I should put in a claim?

 

[Anglesmith]

So I should put in a claim?

Without knowing the setup of your league, all I can say is it is unlikely that he goes long without scoring.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Thank god the Flames never dealt Tkachuk.

 

[TheHudlinator]

Thank god the Flames never dealt Tkachuk.

Thankfully the Flames never dealt Tkachuk so far!

 

[Bounces R Way]

preferably before the playoffs start

 

[DFF]

Someone just dropped Mangiapane in my league...should I pick him up? Seems like he's really cooled down since he's been on the 3rd line, what gives with the demotion?

He was on 50 goal pace….that would not last

Unless you have a deep league, Mangi is not a good fantasy option unless it’s a daily pickups. He doesn’t play the PP1, not on top line, doesn’t fight, hit or block enough

 

[Mgd31]

So how do you guys think the summer will shake out with Tkakchuk, Gaudreau and Mangiapane? Who stays? Who goes? Keep all 3 and let other guys go?

This is a Devils fan that would like to add 1 of the 3 haha.

 

[slappipappi]

For someone willing to do a deeper dive on this, would something like this work in the offseason:

- Sign Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Mangiapane and Kylington.
- Make moves to get to about 7.5M over the cap.
- Trade Sean Monahan to Montreal for Shea Weber. Immediately LTIRetire Shea Weber.

Does that open up a ACSL of Weber's contract? The LTIR rules are a bit complicated, then you add in the 10% offseason limit... like if we ate into that 10% then LTIR, do you get that in ACSL back?

Why does Montreal do this? Wouldn't they do the same thing with Weber without picking up Monny? They have the same issue with cap space Calgary does.

 

[Mobiandi]

So how do you guys think the summer will shake out with Tkakchuk, Gaudreau and Mangiapane? Who stays? Who goes? Keep all 3 and let other guys go?

This is a Devils fan that would like to add 1 of the 3 haha.

Heaven and Earth will be moved to keep all 3 as long as Sutter is coach here

 

[slappipappi]

I really like what Minny did, I already thought they would be a hard out but man they are a tough team now

They have about an extra $12M in cap to account for next year. Thos buyouts really show up next year.

 

[Some Other Flame]

This is all a lot of hullaballoo about nothing. People think too small when it comes to the cap. Flames have 28.05M in space next year with an estimated ceiling of 82.5M.

If you put aside the emotional attachment and do the right thing, then all of Monahan (6.375M), Lucic (5.25M), & Valimaki (1.55M) can and should be moved to free up space to keep the more important pieces. That's another 13.175M, or a total space = 41.225

Let's say Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Mangiapane & Kylington come in at around 30M (10M + 9.5M + 6M + 4.5M).

That still leaves the Flames 11M to sign 3 defensemen (#5, #6, #7) and 6 or 7 forwards (Ruzicka, Pelletier, a couple of 4th liners, and a #13 & #14)

That's easily doable with some basic math. In fact, the Flames can ice the following lineup for a measly 82M (or less depending on the quality of scrub)

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk
Mangiapane - Backlund - Coleman
Pelletier - Dube - Toffoli
Scrub - Ruzicka - Scrub
Spare 1
Spare 2

Hanifin - Andersson
Kylington - Tanev
Mackey - SometimesGudbranson

Markstrom
Vlader

Make some of those scrubs tough guys that Sutter likes and everyone's happy. Well, except Monahan and Valimaki cultists.

 

[super6646]

This is all a lot of hullaballoo about nothing. People think too small when it comes to the cap. Flames have 28.05M in space next year with an estimated ceiling of 82.5M.

If you put aside the emotional attachment and do the right thing, then all of Monahan (6.375M), Lucic (5.25M), & Valimaki (1.55M) can and should be moved to free up space to keep the more important pieces. That's another 13.175M, or a total space = 41.225

Let's say Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Mangiapane & Kylington come in at around 30M (10M + 9.5M + 6M + 4.5M).

That still leaves the Flames 11M to sign 3 defensemen (#5, #6, #7) and 6 or 7 forwards (Ruzicka, Pelletier, a couple of 4th liners, and a #13 & #14)

That's easily doable with some basic math. In fact, the Flames can ice the following lineup for a measly 82M (or less depending on the quality of scrub)

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk
Mangiapane - Backlund - Coleman
Pelletier - Dube - Toffoli
Scrub - Ruzicka - Scrub
Spare 1
Spare 2

Hanifin - Andersson
Kylington - Tanev
Mackey - SometimesGudbranson

Markstrom
Vlader

Make some of those scrubs tough guys that Sutter likes and everyone's happy. Well, except Monahan and Valimaki cultists.

You have to be able to move those cap hits too, which isn't "easy" especially with Lucic who has an 8 team trade list and has no cap savings to a buyout. Also 9 roster pieces for 11m doesn't seem "easy" to me.

 

[TheHudlinator]

This is all a lot of hullaballoo about nothing. People think too small when it comes to the cap. Flames have 28.05M in space next year with an estimated ceiling of 82.5M.

If you put aside the emotional attachment and do the right thing, then all of Monahan (6.375M), Lucic (5.25M), & Valimaki (1.55M) can and should be moved to free up space to keep the more important pieces. That's another 13.175M, or a total space = 41.225

Let's say Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Mangiapane & Kylington come in at around 30M (10M + 9.5M + 6M + 4.5M).

That still leaves the Flames 11M to sign 3 defensemen (#5, #6, #7) and 6 or 7 forwards (Ruzicka, Pelletier, a couple of 4th liners, and a #13 & #14)

That's easily doable with some basic math. In fact, the Flames can ice the following lineup for a measly 82M (or less depending on the quality of scrub)

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk
Mangiapane - Backlund - Coleman
Pelletier - Dube - Toffoli
Scrub - Ruzicka - Scrub
Spare 1
Spare 2

Hanifin - Andersson
Kylington - Tanev
Mackey - SometimesGudbranson

Markstrom
Vlader

Make some of those scrubs tough guys that Sutter likes and everyone's happy. Well, except Monahan and Valimaki cultists.

How do you move lucic with a NMC

 

[Ace Rimmer]

How do you move lucic with a NMC

With gifts?

No, you don't move him. You ask him to retire and give him a front office / coaching job at a similar salary for the season.