Speculation: Armchair GM Thread: Long long journey through the darkness, where is our goalie?

[Body Checker]

I would be all for Dube going to the AHL until Xmas then called back up for rest of year. However he's earned a spot here for now.

 

[Rubi]

Dube is doing just fine here in Calgary. No need to send him to Stockton. I like the Bennett Dube Neal line.

 

[Volica]

Dube is doing just fine here in Calgary. No need to send him to Stockton. I like the Bennett Dube Neal line.

They're fun to watch together.

 

[SKRusty]

Dube is doing just fine here in Calgary. No need to send him to Stockton. I like the Bennett Dube Neal line.

They're fun to watch together.

I think Dube is a great player and I am looking forward to him contributing to the Flames but to this point he is not quite ready. To be occupying a roster spot he has to be better than the person he is replacing and to play a 4th line role will just impair his development. 7-8 minutes a game is not enough for a player at this stage in his career. There is nothing saying he can not be recalled once he refines his game to the professional ranks.

Jankowski, Bennett, and Neal were far more effective than when Dube was on the third line. The goal has to be to ice the best team... not the best future. Calgary is no longer in rebuild mode where you slot in prospects to encourage their development... This team is built to contend and that means the best players today should be in the line-up.

 

[JPeeper]

Jankowski, Bennett, and Neal were far more effective than when Dube was on the third line. The goal has to be to ice the best team... not the best future. Calgary is no longer in rebuild mode where you slot in prospects to encourage their development... This team is built to contend and that means the best players today should be in the line-up.

Completely disagree. Janko has been ineffective 97% of the time this season whereas Dube has been much better in every single game.

 

[SKRusty]

Completely disagree. Janko has been ineffective 97% of the time this season whereas Dube has been much better in every single game.

Contrary to many peoples views advanced stats say a completely different story. Dube has struggled almost everywhere. Second lowest CORSI & Fenwick while Jankowski is 6th on the team with only Backlund higher as far as centers go.

 

[Volica]

I think Dube is a great player and I am looking forward to him contributing to the Flames but to this point he is not quite ready. To be occupying a roster spot he has to be better than the person he is replacing and to play a 4th line role will just impair his development. 7-8 minutes a game is not enough for a player at this stage in his career. There is nothing saying he can not be recalled once he refines his game to the professional ranks.

Jankowski, Bennett, and Neal were far more effective than when Dube was on the third line. The goal has to be to ice the best team... not the best future. Calgary is no longer in rebuild mode where you slot in prospects to encourage their development... This team is built to contend and that means the best players today should be in the line-up.

I'll disagree.
I think Benntt and Neal make the line, and you need speed between the two to kind of play off both strengths.
We've seen Bennett and Jankowski not work before, so I'm just not going down that well. I think at 20 years old, Dube is a more effective player than Jankowski.

 

[Rubi]

I think Dube is a great player and I am looking forward to him contributing to the Flames but to this point he is not quite ready. To be occupying a roster spot he has to be better than the person he is replacing and to play a 4th line role will just impair his development. 7-8 minutes a game is not enough for a player at this stage in his career. There is nothing saying he can not be recalled once he refines his game to the professional ranks.

Jankowski, Bennett, and Neal were far more effective than when Dube was on the third line. The goal has to be to ice the best team... not the best future. Calgary is no longer in rebuild mode where you slot in prospects to encourage their development... This team is built to contend and that means the best players today should be in the line-up.

As you say: "The goal has to be to ice the best team"

I believe the Flames are a better team with Dube in the lineup than without. Not saying that Janko shouldn't be in the lineup also.

 

[CraigsList]

I think the only thing we are missing now is a solid bottom 6 LW/RW that can be a little physical and put up some points at times.

I don’t really see any major holes, it’s so weird to see that.

 

[Volica]

Contrary to many peoples views advanced stats say a completely different story. Dube has struggled almost everywhere. Second lowest CORSI & Fenwick while Jankowski is 6th on the team with only Backlund higher as far as centers go.

Just so you're aware.
Dube between Neal and Bennett, for his two games there:
17-11 Corsi, 64%. That is superior to Jankowski's two games in the same position.

That's what's tough when you're using early season statistics like this. Dube had a miserable game against the Blues in terms of possession (like 25%) and because the sample size is tiny it literally lowers possession by 10%

 

[Volica]

I think the only thing we are missing now is a solid bottom 6 LW/RW that can be a little physical and put up some points at times.

I don’t really see any major holes, it’s so weird to see that.

Really think the only thing they need is like a 13th forward, some grit, leadership, maybe some playoff experience.
And that's it. I think you ride this team out unless Smith gets hurt, in which case you target a veteran backup or up-and-coming goalie who wants to get a chance. We're aware Rittich and Gillies can't carry that big of a load.

 

[SKRusty]

Just so you're aware.
Dube between Neal and Bennett, for his two games there:
17-11 Corsi, 64%. That is superior to Jankowski's two games in the same position.

That's what's tough when you're using early season statistics like this. Dube had a miserable game against the Blues in terms of possession (like 25%) and because the sample size is tiny it literally lowers possession by 10%

We will have to agree to disagree.

It is early for advanced stats but save for one or 2 rushes Dube has shown little in my eyes and is a liability defensively and in the FO circle. Bennett is going to sink or swim with either of these guys at center. Neal looked far more dangerous against Boston than any other game this year IMO.

To me it appears as if you guys are impressed by a few razzle dazzle plays and not the consistent nature of Mark's game. Mark is one of the few forwards that is not pushed around like a rag doll and is quicker than many give him credit for. Like Chara in his early years he sometimes looks clumsy because of his lanky frame but it is that combination of arms and legs that gives Mark a huge advantage in regards to reach. And he uses that reach well.

 

[Volica]

We will have to agree to disagree.

It is early for advanced stats but save for one or 2 rushes Dube has shown little in my eyes and is a liability defensively and in the FO circle. Bennett is going to sink or swim with either of these guys at center. Neal looked far more dangerous against Boston than any other game this year IMO.

To me it appears as if you guys are impressed by a few razzle dazzle plays and not the consistent nature of Mark's game. Mark is one of the few forwards that is not pushed around like a rag doll and is quicker than many give him credit for. Like Chara in his early years he sometimes looks clumsy because of his lanky frame but it is that combination of arms and legs that gives Mark a huge advantage in regards to reach. And he uses that reach well.

I'm fine with Janko as one of our 12 best options. I just don't think he's the right guy for Bennett and Neal. That well is dry. Give him some time to round out his game being the split C with Ryan on the 4th line, have one of the best 4th lines in hockey.

 

[SKRusty]

I'm fine with Janko as one of our 12 best options. I just don't think he's the right guy for Bennett and Neal. That well is dry. Give him some time to round out his game being the split C with Ryan on the 4th line, have one of the best 4th lines in hockey.

As a side note I like how Peters has promoted/ demoted people on various line dependent on performance. To a point guys that have been slotted in on the second line have taken a turn in the press box when they were not performing. Until Janko under achieves on the third line center I think it will be his to lose. He is well aware of how short Bill's leash is.

It is nice to see the players on their toes a bit as it forces them to bring it each and every night.

 

[Volica]

As a side note I like how Peters has promoted/ demoted people on various line dependent on performance. To a point guys that have been slotted in on the second line have taken a turn in the press box when they were not performing. Until Janko under achieves on the third line center I think it will be his to lose. He is well aware of how short Bill's leash is.

It is nice to see the players on their toes a bit as it forces them to bring it each and every night.

That you and I can definitely agree on.
Having a lineup that actually has to be responsible for their own actions, and kept in line is a huge refresher. It was absurd over the past 5-6 years watching guys have miserable runs (not just a game, but multiple games) and still have the luxury of getting back in the lineup night in and out because the team literally had no one else to fill in the depth.

Like, it's crazy guys like Engelland, Bartkowski, our entire bottom 6, etc from the past number of years could just be duds out there for long periods of time and still play the next night.

 

[SKRusty]

IMO this is what is going to push players like Sam, Mark, Frolik and Dube to be better. The only concern I have is Peters preferential treatment of Ryan.

 

[Volica]

IMO this is what is going to push players like Sam, Mark, Frolik and Dube to be better. The only concern I have is Peters preferential treatment of Ryan.

Eh. I'd be concerned if it shows it's face.
He's a good offensive hand for PP2. He's a good skater with some IQ for PK2... he's playing 4th line minutes otherwise.

The minute he's playing with Gaudreau or on PP1 is when I start having issues.

 

[JPeeper]

Contrary to many peoples views advanced stats say a completely different story. Dube has struggled almost everywhere. Second lowest CORSI & Fenwick while Jankowski is 6th on the team with only Backlund higher as far as centers go.

In this case, advanced stats are garbage.

Like in almost every case.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Dube is a stud. He’s struggled a little bit offensively but he does everything else so well. There is no reason to take him out when he’s already one of our best defensive forwards.

He’s also been dealing with injuries. He has the skill set to be a driver. Let him figure out the offense and reap the benefits.

The way Bennett and Dube play will really benefit James Neal will at some point.

Jankowski has three or four terrible turnovers last night. No way he deserves to be in over Dillon IMO.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Dube is a stud. He’s struggled a little bit offensively but he does everything else so well. There is no reason to take him out when he’s already one of our best defensive forwards.

He’s also been dealing with injuries. He has the skill set to be a driver. Let him figure out the offense and reap the benefits.

The way Bennett and Dube play will really benefit James Neal will at some point.

Jankowski has three or four terrible turnovers last night. No way he deserves to be in over Dillon IMO.

I don’t think Dube deserves to come out or be sat by any means. However I do want him to be the best player he can be. Bennett should have gotten some time in the AHL for the same reasons. I want to Dube to be a top 6 stud and getting him having the feel of he puck going in the net would only help.

 

[Flameshomer]

I'm fine with Janko as one of our 12 best options. I just don't think he's the right guy for Bennett and Neal. That well is dry. Give him some time to round out his game being the split C with Ryan on the 4th line, have one of the best 4th lines in hockey.

A thousand times this. Unfortunately the Bennett-Jankowski experiment needs to end, it was not good for either player. I would love to see a return to Bennett-Dube-Neal as the game progresses, and roll out Janko-Ryan-Czarnik as a fourth line with tons of talent.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I don’t think Dube deserves to come out or be sat by any means. However I do want him to be the best player he can be. Bennett should have gotten some time in the AHL for the same reasons. I want to Dube to be a top 6 stud and getting him having the feel of he puck going in the net would only help.

I would send him down eventually if he doesn’t score but I think he starts to chip in offensively.

 

[SKRusty]

Dube is a stud. He’s struggled a little bit offensively but he does everything else so well. There is no reason to take him out when he’s already one of our best defensive forwards.

He’s also been dealing with injuries. He has the skill set to be a driver. Let him figure out the offense and reap the benefits.

The way Bennett and Dube play will really benefit James Neal will at some point.

Jankowski has three or four terrible turnovers last night. No way he deserves to be in over Dillon IMO.

Where are these 3-4 takeaways??? The NHL just threw them out?

It's crap like this that fills narratives that are not true. As long as the lines are producing it should not matter who is on what line. Obviously Peters saw much of what I saw on Wednesday and have kept the third line as is.

I liked that Dube was given an opportunity but unlike the Gully days when it isn't working mix things up a little.

Calgary Flames

FORWARDS M. BacklundC S. BennettC A. CzarnikC M. FrolikRW J. GaudreauLW G. HathawayRW M. JankowskiC E. LindholmC S. MonahanC J. NealLW D. RyanC M. TkachukLW DEFENSEMEN R. AnderssonD T.J. BrodieD M. GiordanoD N. HanifinD M. StoneD J. ValimakiD [TBODY] [/TBODY]

TIME ON ICE FACEOFFS G A +/- S SM BS PN PIM HT TK GV SHFT TOI PPTOI SHTOI ESTOI FW FL % 0 2 1 3 0 1 1 2 0 2 1 24 19:05 2:44 1:42 14:39 6 7 46.2 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 2 1 0 18 13:42 0:01 1:04 12:37 0 0 0.0 0 0 -1 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 15 11:29 2:44 0:00 8:45 0 0 0.0 2 0 3 3 1 1 0 0 1 1 3 22 16:07 0:00 3:00 13:07 2 0 100.0 1 0 0 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 2 19 14:32 4:00 0:03 10:29 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 2 6 0 0 15 9:59 0:01 0:00 9:58 0 0 0.0 0 1 0 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 17 11:45 0:01 1:19 10:25 2 3 40.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 25 18:15 4:00 2:31 11:44 6 5 54.5 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 3 1 21 16:35 4:00 0:03 12:32 3 4 42.9 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 2 19 14:45 3:32 0:00 11:13 1 0 100.0 0 0 2 0 0 3 0 0 0 1 2 19 15:17 2:44 3:10 9:23 2 7 22.2 1 1 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 21 16:59 3:12 0:00 13:47 0 0 0.0 G A +/- S SM BS PN PIM HT TK GV SHFT TOI PPTOI SHTOI ESTOI FW FL % 0 0 1 1 0 2 0 0 0 1 0 23 17:12 0:01 0:00 17:11 0 0 0.0 0 0 2 1 0 1 1 2 0 1 2 21 18:39 0:00 2:06 16:33 0 0 0.0 0 0 2 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 27 23:13 3:51 3:37 15:45 0 0 0.0 0 1 1 2 3 2 0 0 2 0 2 29 23:19 2:54 3:31 16:54 0 0 0.0 0 2 0 1 1 1 1 2 1 2 1 21 15:20 0:00 3:03 12:17 0 0 0.0 1 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 2 1 0 21 15:47 0:00 2:01 13:46 0 0 0.0 [TBODY] [/TBODY] [TBODY] [/TBODY] [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Where are these 3-4 takeaways??? The NHL just threw them out?

It's crap like this that fills narratives that are not true. As long as the lines are producing it should not matter who is on what line. Obviously Peters saw much of what I saw on Wednesday and have kept the third line as is.

I liked that Dube was given an opportunity but unlike the Gully days when it isn't working mix things up a little.

Calgary Flames

FORWARDS M. BacklundC S. BennettC A. CzarnikC M. FrolikRW J. GaudreauLW G. HathawayRW M. JankowskiC E. LindholmC S. MonahanC J. NealLW D. RyanC M. TkachukLW DEFENSEMEN R. AnderssonD T.J. BrodieD M. GiordanoD N. HanifinD M. StoneD J. ValimakiD [TBODY] [/TBODY]

TIME ON ICE FACEOFFS G A +/- S SM BS PN PIM HT TK GV SHFT TOI PPTOI SHTOI ESTOI FW FL % 0 2 1 3 0 1 1 2 0 2 1 24 19:05 2:44 1:42 14:39 6 7 46.2 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 2 1 0 18 13:42 0:01 1:04 12:37 0 0 0.0 0 0 -1 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 15 11:29 2:44 0:00 8:45 0 0 0.0 2 0 3 3 1 1 0 0 1 1 3 22 16:07 0:00 3:00 13:07 2 0 100.0 1 0 0 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 2 19 14:32 4:00 0:03 10:29 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 2 6 0 0 15 9:59 0:01 0:00 9:58 0 0 0.0 0 1 0 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 17 11:45 0:01 1:19 10:25 2 3 40.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 25 18:15 4:00 2:31 11:44 6 5 54.5 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 3 1 21 16:35 4:00 0:03 12:32 3 4 42.9 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 2 19 14:45 3:32 0:00 11:13 1 0 100.0 0 0 2 0 0 3 0 0 0 1 2 19 15:17 2:44 3:10 9:23 2 7 22.2 1 1 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 21 16:59 3:12 0:00 13:47 0 0 0.0 G A +/- S SM BS PN PIM HT TK GV SHFT TOI PPTOI SHTOI ESTOI FW FL % 0 0 1 1 0 2 0 0 0 1 0 23 17:12 0:01 0:00 17:11 0 0 0.0 0 0 2 1 0 1 1 2 0 1 2 21 18:39 0:00 2:06 16:33 0 0 0.0 0 0 2 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 27 23:13 3:51 3:37 15:45 0 0 0.0 0 1 1 2 3 2 0 0 2 0 2 29 23:19 2:54 3:31 16:54 0 0 0.0 0 2 0 1 1 1 1 2 1 2 1 21 15:20 0:00 3:03 12:17 0 0 0.0 1 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 2 1 0 21 15:47 0:00 2:01 13:46 0 0 0.0 [TBODY] [/TBODY] [TBODY] [/TBODY] [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Narrative? Janko hasn’t been good this year whether you see it or not.

 

[SKRusty]

Actually with 20 Minutes less ice time Mark has the same shots same points and I think everyone here can say Dube has had consistently better line mates until the Boston Game.

Again where did those takeaway numbers come from??? The stat line I read and the game that I watched do not support your statement. I thought maybe during a pee break I missed them and I could see the NHL not counting 1 ... on the very outside 2 but all 3 or 4?

Mark Jankowski

Date	Opp	Result	G	A	PTS	+/-	PIM	PPG	PPA	SHG	SOG	S%	TOI
10/17	vs BOS	W 5-2	0	1	1	0	0	0	0	0	2	0.0	11:45
10/13	at COL	W 3-2	0	0	0	-1	2	0	0	0	1	0.0	9:48
10/6	vs VAN	W 7-4	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	0.0	7:06
10/3	at VAN	L 2-5	0	0	0	-1	0	0	0	0	3	0.0	8:52

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Total TOI 37:31

Dillon Dube

Date	Opp	Result	G	A	PTS	+/-	PIM	PPG	PPA	SHG	SOG	S%	TOI
10/13	at COL	W 3-2	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	0.0	10:51
10/11	at STL	L 3-5	0	1	1	0	0	0	0	0	1	0.0	10:07
10/9	at NSH	W 3-0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	2	0.0	15:18
10/6	vs VAN	W 7-4	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	0.0	12:51
10/3	at VAN	L 2-5	0	0	0	-1	0	0	0	0	2	0.0	9:07

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Total TOI 58:14