Speculation: Armchair GM Thread: Long long journey through the darkness, where is our goalie?

[viper0220]

Watching Spector talk on Sportsnet, I love how rich that guy is.

What did he say?

 

[Volica]

What did he say?

What you'd expect the great Spec to say.
Essentially:

"Calgary made a bunch of trades and signings this summer. They more or less said, hey, this group isn't good enough, we have to make changes and they did. Did they get better trading Hamilton? Who knows. Edmonton? Well, Edmonton said we are good, this group is good enough, we're closer to the team that had over 100 points not the team with 70 some. Is that true? I think they're they're somewhere in the middle. I expect bounce back seasons from almost everyone (mentions career years a two years ago)."

What Spec should have said:

"Calgary has a competent GM, he realized that the bottom 6 and RW depth was atrocious and completely targeted those two areas. They said, the core is good enough, but we need to support them better with guys who can score and guys who can play at a higher level. What'd they do? Go get two proven top 6 scorers who have room to improve their numbers, went out and got a new third line centre that'll reduce the pressure on the second line, and then went and got a kid who could potentially pop and give the bottom 6 another scoring threat. They removed two guys who were causing locker room problems, even if they made a slight downgrade on D.

Edmonton? Edmonton couldn't do shit because their GM is incompetent and gave away cap like free candy. With Sekera on the IR, they can actually afford to pay Nurse, even if they weren't able to previously. They're lining up the same team, after a year where everything went right, and then a year where everything went wrong, they're hoping that their luck swings back and they can get to the playoffs to get spanked in the first round. They're hope is that McDavid can score 150 points, because without that they won't do much. They are likely going to bring in a 'who's who of who?' on PTO's to find someone to play in the top 6D"

 

[FlamesNewArena]

Hey Everyone,

Long time reader, first time writer. This seems like a good site to discuss hockey and I don't like other flames forums. I decided to make an account today after seeing the patches trade because it got me thinking...is there any way to get Price from Montreal with some retention as they seem to have a lot of ELC.

I was thinking something like:
Mtl:
Price (25% retention)
Shaw

For

Cgy:
Valimaki
Dube
Frolik
Stone
Gilles/Parsons
Flames 1st 19 or 20.
Flames 2nd (year that the first isn't)
Reasons:
Mtl: gains defensive prospect on ECL contract to come up with mete and forward ECL contracts so the retention on price wont hurt. They also gain a deference in Stone who can play now and a potential goalie for the future.

Cgy: gains goalie to help now and we don't sign Smith in off season. Shaw can play third line Frolik minutes for this year then bought out if needed cap space for Tkachuck.

Don't know how the cap situation would look in the future for flames or Habs

Now I am assuming that isn't enough for Price with retention but is just a starting block. Also please don't be to harsh it is my first post and just getting use to it. My hockey IQ probably is not up with all of you.

(Note: I will stay away from main board until I am better at this so that other fans don't think we are all homers like me)

 

[CraigsList]

@FlamesNewArena What the hell?

Price is overrated. There’s no way I’d make any trade with Montreal for a goalie with an 8 x 7.875 contract.

 

[FlamesNewArena]

@FlamesNewArena What the hell?

Price is overrated. There’s no way I’d make any trade with Montreal for a goalie with an 8 x 7.875 contract.

I believe there is a reason why Montreal sucked without him last year and why teams like Vegas do well with MAF, LA with Quick. Goalies are a huge difference maker as seen in today's Flames Vs Oilers game. I get he is overpaid but maybe take out a prospect we are sending or add a tad more retention. Smith won't get us where we need to be. The only thing I would agree with Price being "overrated" is because he is injured a lot. We could make our picks conditional on how we do in the next year or two.

Where do you see our goalie situation in the future. I get we have prospects coming up and Smith is a stop gap. But after last year i feel our goalies are further away than anticipated and this helps the situation. Another situation I feel we could do is cap dump Frolik and Stone somewhere so we can try to sign Bobrovsky.

 

[crazyfisherman]

I believe there is a reason why Montreal sucked without him last year and why teams like Vegas do well with MAF, LA with Quick. Goalies are a huge difference maker as seen in today's Flames Vs Oilers game. I get he is overpaid but maybe take out a prospect we are sending or add a tad more retention. Smith won't get us where we need to be. The only thing I would agree with Price being "overrated" is because he is injured a lot. We could make our picks conditional on how we do in the next year or two.

Where do you see our goalie situation in the future. I get we have prospects coming up and Smith is a stop gap. But after last year i feel our goalies are further away than anticipated and this helps the situation. Another situation I feel we could do is cap dump Frolik and Stone somewhere so we can try to sign Bobrovsky.

if niemi can backstop a team to the cup then so can smith. the team in front of the goalie matter much more than the goalie itself. I'm all for acquiring price because i think hes still a top goaltender but I aint paying what you are paying (not even close... like take out both valimaki and dube), nor do i want anything to do with shaw

 

[FlamesNewArena]

if niemi can backstop a team to the cup then so can smith. the team in front of the goalie matter much more than the goalie itself. I'm all for acquiring price because i think hes still a top goaltender but I aint paying what you are paying (not even close... like take out both valimaki and dube), nor do i want anything to do with shaw

i put in shaw because i thought that montreal would need to dump some salary back at us because of the retention...only reason why he is in there. But I don't think you get the deal done without prospects going the other way for Montreal. But who knows maybe the picks would be enough with the roster players and goalie prospect.

I do get your point with Niemi, but he was good first joining the league. Lets not pretend that last year is what he always was. But that is a worry I have for Price is that he may becoming what Niemi did last year (GAA shot up) but I would take the gamble if I were the Flames.

 

[crazyfisherman]

i put in shaw because i thought that montreal would need to dump some salary back at us because of the retention...only reason why he is in there. But I don't think you get the deal done without prospects going the other way for Montreal. But who knows maybe the picks would be enough with the roster players and goalie prospect.

I do get your point with Niemi, but he was good first joining the league. Lets not pretend that last year is what he always was. But that is a worry I have for Price is that he may becoming what Niemi did last year (GAA shot up) but I would take the gamble if I were the Flames.

if the habs are looking to rebuild then they should be looking to trade price a picks/prospects. I wouldnt offer any of our top 5 prospects tho, i would be willing to move a 1st and they have to retain (that contract is too ugly). goalies just dont have the values on the trade market, look at what bishop got (granted he was an ufa, but he was very well regarded at the time). Niemi was simply average on the cup run, around 0.91 save percentage during the regular season and playoffs, something smith is absolutely capable of doing. Hell, if smith is 3 yrs younger i wouldnt even consider price rn

 

[FlamesNewArena]

if the habs are looking to rebuild then they should be looking to trade price a picks/prospects. I wouldnt offer any of our top 5 prospects tho, i would be willing to move a 1st and they have to retain (that contract is too ugly). goalies just dont have the values on the trade market, look at what bishop got (granted he was an ufa, but he was very well regarded at the time). Niemi was simply average on the cup run, around 0.91 save percentage during the regular season and playoffs, something smith is absolutely capable of doing. Hell, if smith is 3 yrs younger i wouldnt even consider price rn

agreed if Smith was younger because we could use him as the stop gap for longer. But currently I just think he is to injury prone and our goalies need more time to develop. Goalies are the hardest to determine IMO. I am all for keeping prospects out but then if that was proposed imagine how Habs fans would react. It has to be fair for both teams. I would like to keep Valimaki because our d prospects are looking solid. I would say Kulak but that doesn't get the deal done.

If we could get price down to 6.5 M would this be better?

Mtl
Price a 6.5

Cgy
Kulak
Stone
Frolik
(EDIT) GILLES not Parsons
Dube
Conditional 1st (western finals) if not 2nd (2019)
2nd (2020)


After you think about that then consider...
we need to take on more contracts so Shaw or a plug that makes a decent amount of money that sucks would need to come back our way. As well, I would say with the change to Parsons to Gilles it would probably take Janko instead of Dube. Which I think is would be decent thing to do as IMO Janko is 4 C this year (Money-Backs-Ryan-Janko)

Only way I see it being fair.

 

[Lunatik]

Acquiring Carey Price isn't worth the cost, doing so would completely gut not only our depth but our future as well.

 

[crazyfisherman]

agreed if Smith was younger because we could use him as the stop gap for longer. But currently I just think he is to injury prone and our goalies need more time to develop. Goalies are the hardest to determine IMO. I am all for keeping prospects out but then if that was proposed imagine how Habs fans would react. It has to be fair for both teams. I would like to keep Valimaki because our d prospects are looking solid. I would say Kulak but that doesn't get the deal done.

If we could get price down to 6.5 M would this be better?

Mtl
Price a 6.5

Cgy
Kulak
Stone
Frolik
(EDIT) GILLES not Parsons
Dube
Conditional 1st (western finals) if not 2nd (2019)
2nd (2020)


After you think about that then consider...
we need to take on more contracts so Shaw or a plug that makes a decent amount of money that sucks would need to come back our way. As well, I would say with the change to Parsons to Gilles it would probably take Janko instead of Dube. Which I think is would be decent thing to do as IMO Janko is 4 C this year (Money-Backs-Ryan-Janko)

Only way I see it being fair.

habs would want an unconditional pick, i think a deal around janko and our unprotected 1st for price at 6.5 would be interesting. they need centers and janko may become a decent 2nd line C for them and they get a first. throw in some contracts and salary to balance the rest out

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Flames are best to ride out Smith this season and trying to sign Bob next year.

 

[Volica]

Flames are best to ride out Smith this season and trying to sign Bob next year.

I agree.
Would be amazing to get Price, but the necessary costs would be absurd.

Like if it was a first and some stuff, with some retention from the Habs, then yeah, but the cost would be absurd.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Price is one of few trades where I'd be okay with including Kylington.

Assuming Montreal either retains salary, or takes a steep discount.

Edit: just looked at the salary structure for Price's contract. Eeewwww...

 

[FlamesNewArena]

Ya I have have not looked at contract structures or if we would even have room to make this deal work. I just think it would be an interesting trade but it would mortgage our future. But we have a 4 year period here with Gaudreau and I think he will only stay if we start making deep playoff pushes. You have to sell the farm at some point to make these pushes and if they don't work out start over, this middle ground area is not where you want to be unless you are ok with second round exits every year.

I just believe with our line up we got to start making our push but maybe hold off on Price this year until we see what we get Tkachuk in at and if we can land Bobrovsky. If we get Tkachuk at a decent price and don't land Bob, then I think we sell some of the farm to get Price at retention and our fourth line will just be fringe players ie Foo, Magniapane, Dube, Janko...whoever we don't trade.

But thanks all for the feed back I was just thinking it would be a good place to go but there have been good points about Price's contract.

 

[Rubi]

Hey Everyone,

Long time reader, first time writer. This seems like a good site to discuss hockey and I don't like other flames forums. I decided to make an account today after seeing the patches trade because it got me thinking...is there any way to get Price from Montreal with some retention as they seem to have a lot of ELC.

I was thinking something like:
Mtl:
Price (25% retention)
Shaw

For

Cgy:
Valimaki
Dube
Frolik
Stone
Gilles/Parsons
Flames 1st 19 or 20.
Flames 2nd (year that the first isn't)
Reasons:
Mtl: gains defensive prospect on ECL contract to come up with mete and forward ECL contracts so the retention on price wont hurt. They also gain a deference in Stone who can play now and a potential goalie for the future.

Cgy: gains goalie to help now and we don't sign Smith in off season. Shaw can play third line Frolik minutes for this year then bought out if needed cap space for Tkachuck.

Don't know how the cap situation would look in the future for flames or Habs

Now I am assuming that isn't enough for Price with retention but is just a starting block. Also please don't be to harsh it is my first post and just getting use to it. My hockey IQ probably is not up with all of you.

(Note: I will stay away from main board until I am better at this so that other fans don't think we are all homers like me)

Holy f*ck. With the players you think Treliving should give up the Flames better be in the win NOW mode because they sure won't have a hope in hell of winning in the future. I'm pretty sure Treliving would pass on this very generous offer.

P.S. You're not a Habs fan by any chance?

 

[FlamesNewArena]

Holy f*ck. With the players you think Treliving should give up the Flames better be in the win NOW mode because they sure won't have a hope in hell of winning in the future. I'm pretty sure Treliving would pass on this very generous offer.

P.S. You're not a Habs fan by any chance?

Hahaha no. Only been a flames fan for 20 years, only team I care about. I get it is a lot but there is no other way to pry Price away from them. I made adjustments since that offer and have stated maybe it is better to wait to see what happens.
Our forward group is pretty locked in long term that we would be able to draft some other studs between now and when we would need to rebuild if it doesn't work out.
Our defense is fine as is and we would be keeping 1 or 2 prospects that can fill holes in case of injury or if Gio retires at end of his contract and still have replacements for Stone.
Our goalie group is the only thing that is weak currently and this would fill the hole for the foreseeable future.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Price's contract (even with retention) is so damaging to our cap situation I can't see any way we acquire him. Assets it would cost aside, from just a contracts perspective it doesn't make much sense to target him.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Price's contract (even with retention) is so damaging to our cap situation I can't see any way we acquire him. Assets it would cost aside, from just a contracts perspective it doesn't make much sense to target him.

Yeah as much as I'd like this I have to agree.

If they're selling low, we don't want him. If they're selling high, we can't afford him.

 

[Baxterman]

That is way too much in terms of quality and quantity going to the Habs in both those deals. I love Price and would love to get him but with that contract I have a hard time seeing it work.

I think the best deal would be something around Jankowski and then add a guy like Kylington or Gillies if they like him with Price coming in retained a decent amount. Montreal shouldn't care too much about the retention because they would then be at least 3-4 years away from contending anyways and after that hopefully the cap would rise a little more making the retention amount a bit more bearable.

I can't see how they move Price, but if they could Montreal is actually in a decent place to rebuild sure they would still have Weber but with age/injury he isn't good enough to carry them and up front they have a lot meh guys that will help them finish at the bottom of the league. It will be hard to outsuck Ottawa but since they have no incentive to finish last moving Price could set up Montreal nicely to go after Hughes/Cousins or even a guy like Krebs or Dach that could really help their Center issues, if they could drop off a little more they could get Lafreniere the next year which would be a dream come true for them.

 

[Nanuuk]

Personally, I have zero interest in trading for Price at any cost. It would be shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

[Flameshomer]

Ok last zany idea of mine until the season starts:

I think we should revisit a Mark Stone trade.

I think something like Bennett+Hamonic+ prospect could be enough as he doesn't have an extension in place. Not trying to pile on Ottawa here but I think this is a better offer than they received for Karlsson.

Eventual lineup:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Neal
Tkachuk-Lindholm-Stone
Frolik-Backlund-Ryan
Mangiapane-Jankowski-Dube

Gio-Brodie
Hanifin-Stone
Kulak-Andersson

 

[Volica]

Ok last zany idea of mine until the season starts:

I think we should revisit a Mark Stone trade.

I think something like Bennett+Hamonic+ prospect could be enough as he doesn't have an extension in place. Not trying to pile on Ottawa here but I think this is a better offer than they received for Karlsson.

Eventual lineup:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Neal
Tkachuk-Lindholm-Stone
Frolik-Backlund-Ryan
Mangiapane-Jankowski-Dube

Gio-Brodie
Hanifin-Stone
Kulak-Andersson

Appears Dorion wants picks.
Might be what Melnyk wants to market the team, and also make up for the fact they gave their first up (which'll be a top 5 pick likely) for a season and a half of a 1B/2C type centre.

 

[Rubi]

Ok last zany idea of mine until the season starts:

I think we should revisit a Mark Stone trade.

I think something like Bennett+Hamonic+ prospect could be enough as he doesn't have an extension in place. Not trying to pile on Ottawa here but I think this is a better offer than they received for Karlsson.

Eventual lineup:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Neal
Tkachuk-Lindholm-Stone
Frolik-Backlund-Ryan
Mangiapane-Jankowski-Dube

Gio-Brodie
Hanifin-Stone
Kulak-Andersson

Based on what Melnyk and Dorion accepted for Karlsson what you want to give up is way too much.
Bennett, Kylington, and a 2020 3rd rounder should do it.

 

[Nanuuk]

If we're trading with Ottawa, I'd rather send Michael Stone to them to make room for Rasmus Andersson. I know they might want to be stockpiling picks, but they do have a raft of prospects in the pipeline already. Stone would give them some leadership on the backend and might make brother Mark want to stick around next year. So Michael for Ottawa's 2019 2nd round pick?