Arizona CXXXVIII - City of Glendale opting out of lease agreement with the Coyotes

[MNNumbers]

And as someone who knows multiple promoters and artists who have booked GRA direct, the cost is rather uniform.

I'd be interested to know more about that. The team was paying 500K a year, which is about 12k per night. Plus, they got practice space, and the city got nothing from concessions on game nights.

Equivalent would be $2 a head or something like that for a concert.

Does that sound close?

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

I'd be interested to know more about that. The team was paying 500K a year, which is about 12k per night. Plus, they got practice space, and the city got nothing from concessions on game nights.

Equivalent would be $2 a head or something like that for a concert.

Does that sound close?

Pretty much, along with setup/turnaround fees.

 

[TheLegend]

And as someone who knows multiple promoters and artists who have booked GRA direct, the cost is rather uniform.

Just prior to the city terminating the original lease with Ice Arizona, it was reported IA had gone to the city at the request of their managing operator (Spectra) looking to create a lower rate for lower tier events. Reasoning was Spectra had trouble getting those smaller events booked due to the costs.

We never found out anymore than that because that was about the time Andrew Barroway bought into the franchise and the city terminated the lease about 6 months later.

EDIT: @MNNumbers saw you posted while I was typing this, but you probably recall this too

 

[MNNumbers]

Just prior to the city terminating the original lease with Ice Arizona, it was reported IA had gone to the city at the request of their managing operator (Spectra) looking to create a lower rate for lower tier events. Reasoning was Spectra had trouble getting those smaller events booked due to the costs.

We never found out anymore than that because that was about the time Andrew Barroway bought into the franchise and the city terminated the lease about 6 months later.

EDIT: @MNNumbers saw you posted while I was typing this, but you probably recall this too

As I recall, the only thing about a lower tier cost was that they wanted the city ticket surcharge reduced on such events. I didn't think much of that on the part of IA. It was as if they wanted a bigger cut without keeping their end of the contract to the city.

 

[TheLegend]

As I recall, the only thing about a lower tier cost was that they wanted the city ticket surcharge reduced on such events. I didn't think much of that on the part of IA. It was as if they wanted a bigger cut without keeping their end of the contract to the city.

I went Googling for the article(s) (only remember two were published on it) but came up dry. But IIRC the city ticket surcharge couldn't be touched without drawing Goldwater Institute into it.

Reason why I even brought it up was WhiskeyThief's comment about arena charges at GRA being pretty straightforward.

 

[Llama19]

As I recall, the only thing about a lower tier cost was that they wanted the city ticket surcharge reduced on such events. I didn't think much of that on the part of IA. It was as if they wanted a bigger cut without keeping their end of the contract to the city.

Coyotes shoot for more events at Gila River Arena

To quote:

"Glendale has no control over what shows are booked but its contract with the Coyotes dictates ticket surcharges and parking fees for Coyotes games and concerts.

Glendale gets a $3 surcharge on each hockey ticket and $5 from each concert ticket. The parking fees are $10 per car for hockey and $15 per car for concerts.

LeBlanc said the Coyotes want the city to consider taking less revenue for smaller shows that otherwise would skip the arena because expenses are too high. The two sides have had some preliminary discussions on the topic, he said.

"The purpose of these discussions is to make the revenue pie larger, not merely a resize of the slices," LeBlanc said.""

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/glendale/2015/03/13/arizona-coyotes-shoot-events-gila-river-arena/70232442/

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

Coyotes shoot for more events at Gila River Arena

To quote:

"Glendale has no control over what shows are booked but its contract with the Coyotes dictates ticket surcharges and parking fees for Coyotes games and concerts.

Glendale gets a $3 surcharge on each hockey ticket and $5 from each concert ticket. The parking fees are $10 per car for hockey and $15 per car for concerts.

LeBlanc said the Coyotes want the city to consider taking less revenue for smaller shows that otherwise would skip the arena because expenses are too high. The two sides have had some preliminary discussions on the topic, he said.

"The purpose of these discussions is to make the revenue pie larger, not merely a resize of the slices," LeBlanc said.""

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/glendale/2015/03/13/arizona-coyotes-shoot-events-gila-river-arena/70232442/

The city of Glendale terminated the management agreement 3 months later.

 

[Llama19]

The city of Glendale terminated the management agreement 3 months later.

Shows that any revenue changes proposed...were not 'profitable'...in continuing with the 'arena management' agreement...

 

[TheLegend]

Shows that any revenue changes proposed...were not 'profitable'...in continuing with the 'arena management' agreement...

Or…. the mayor just wanted out of the extra $9 million they were paying and, after getting a new majority in the council, was already working behind the scenes to terminate the lease.

The lease that he swore on the record would do everything he could to make it work.

Not the first time ol’ Jerry Weiers backstabbed someone to get what he wanted. Wasn’t the last either.

 

[MNNumbers]

Or…. the mayor just wanted out of the extra $9 million they were paying and, after getting a new majority in the council, was already working behind the scenes to terminate the lease.

The lease that he swore on the record would do everything he could to make it work.

Not the first time ol’ Jerry Weiers backstabbed someone to get what he wanted. Wasn’t the last either.

Legend,

You're going to make me quit supporting you in this thread if you keep defending IA in any way. Every thing they did was done badly - including the underhanded way they got COG to sign that lease. You know that.

Come on.

I know Llama puts his own spin on things, and you are totally right that the lease was about to be terminated for reasons that didn't have anything to do with that request. But don't try to make Glendale look like the bad guy and IA look like an innocent victim.

As for right now, Meruelo isn't an innocent victim either. He's been late on payments, and probably hard to deal with. Which has probably made the city more inclined to say "That's it. We're done with them."

But in the present, what we are watching is the final dissolution of a relationship which could not work because the team playing at GRA didn't bring in enough money, so no one was satisfied. There is no need to throw shade and blame anywhere.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

I know Llama puts his own spin on things, and you are totally right that the lease was about to be terminated for reasons that didn't have anything to do with that request. But don't try to make Glendale look like the bad guy and IA look like an innocent victim.

By the same token, and I know you're not necessarily guilty of this, but others have been here...don't paint Weiers and some of the COG council members as overly virtuous, honest politicians who always have their citizens' best interests at heart if not for the big, bad outsiders always tryna mess with their little city... some of the council members have been pieces of work as well, and not in a good way.

 

[MNNumbers]

By the same token, and I know you're not necessarily guilty of this, but others have been here...don't paint Weiers and some of the COG council members as overly virtuous, honest politicians who always have their citizens' best interests at heart if not for the big, bad outsiders always tryna mess with their little city... some of the council members have been pieces of work as well, and not in a good way.

I would happen to agree with you. The CC in the days of the IA lease were, to put it politely, in over their heads, and didn't know that they were, so each was glorying in their power, and as a result the whole thing was a large dysfunctional mess.

However, I would not put on them any 'blame' of ill-intent toward the Coyotes, and I would remain somewhat (although not entirely) staunch in my idea that, had IA been good renters and paid their bills on time, and developed a decent relationship, there would not have been a canceled lease. Again, not to claim Glendale is innocent. They were not.

However, at present, I would say the city manager there has his head on straight, and is doing the right thing for the interests of the city. And, Meruelo also has head on straight, and it doing the best thing for the interest of the team.

 

[TheLegend]

Legend,

You're going to make me quit supporting you in this thread if you keep defending IA in any way. Every thing they did was done badly - including the underhanded way they got COG to sign that lease. You know that.

Come on.

I know Llama puts his own spin on things, and you are totally right that the lease was about to be terminated for reasons that didn't have anything to do with that request. But don't try to make Glendale look like the bad guy and IA look like an innocent victim.

As for right now, Meruelo isn't an innocent victim either. He's been late on payments, and probably hard to deal with. Which has probably made the city more inclined to say "That's it. We're done with them."

But in the present, what we are watching is the final dissolution of a relationship which could not work because the team playing at GRA didn't bring in enough money, so no one was satisfied. There is no need to throw shade and blame anywhere.

It isn’t “supporting IA” to point out there were (and to a degree still are) nefarious players on both sides of this.

Besides, I was responding to the deliberate shade being thrown by someone else. Never have let it slide in nine years, and I’m sorry but not going to stop calling it out.

I did check last night if there was any progress on the RFP. It’s still being vetted. The person responsible has a couple of assistants under her but I would suspect this will still take a while…

Meanwhile, I drive by the new water park resort going up near Westgate on my way to work.. Figure it’s construction mimics what we might see if the Tempe project does get the green light. Might stop and get a few progress pictures to use as a reference in how long it might take Meruelo to build the arena. They’re about 90 days into the project and most the excavation is done now with foundation work underway.

 

[MNNumbers]

It isn’t “supporting IA” to point out there were (and to a degree still are) nefarious players on both sides of this.

Besides, I was responding to the deliberate shade being thrown by someone else. Never have let it slide in nine years, and I’m sorry but not going to stop calling it out.

I did check last night if there was any progress on the RFP. It’s still being vetted. The person responsible has a couple of assistants under her but I would suspect this will still take a while…

Meanwhile, I drive by the new water park resort going up near Westgate on my way to work.. Figure it’s construction mimics what we might see if the Tempe project does get the green light. Might stop and get a few progress pictures to use as a reference in how long it might take Meruelo to build the arena. They’re about 90 days into the project and most the excavation is done now with foundation work underway.

Are you speaking of the construction only? In other words, for Tempe.....post-mitigation? Obviously, there will be lots of excavation associated with that Soil mitigation.

 

[TheLegend]

Are you speaking of the construction only? In other words, for Tempe.....post-mitigation? Obviously, there will be lots of excavation associated with that Soil mitigation.

This was flat land south of the Cardinals stadium. They excavated down about 20-25 feet for what I thought would be the lagoon part but the drawings indicate the hotel is going on top of where they excavated the deepest. There’s three distinct zones. Two go down 10-12 feet deep with the largest one twice that.

The rebar and column forms were beginning to be set late last week.

Really need to take some pictures of this to give better reference.

 

[MNNumbers]

This was flat land south of the Cardinals stadium. They excavated down about 20-25 feet for what I thought would be the lagoon part but the drawings indicate the hotel is going on top of where they excavated the deepest. There’s three distinct zones. Two go down 10-12 feet deep with the largest one twice that.

The rebar and column forms were beginning to be set late last week.

Really need to take some pictures of this to give better reference.

Is the size similar to an arena?

 

[TheLegend]

Is the size similar to an arena?

In my estimate, yes. It’s large enough to fit a lower bowl in.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

Are you speaking of the construction only? In other words, for Tempe.....post-mitigation? Obviously, there will be lots of excavation associated with that Soil mitigation.

I’m not seeing what you’re referring to for some reason, but the soil report is pretty black & white on what needs to be done.
Top layer needs to come off, amended & stored. After that, the old construction fill needs to be dug out and repurposed( used as aggregate or reclaimed wood) or go to landfill elsewhere.
After *that*, the original top fill will be laid out on top of the cobble and compacted, then left to settle for a couple of months before they lay the slab. Did the same thing at my house on the same alluvial plain.
They were gonna have to dig it all anyway even if it was single story, part of the reason they couldn’t develop it prior.

 

[MNNumbers]

I’m not seeing what you’re referring to for some reason, but the soil report is pretty black & white on what needs to be done.
Top layer needs to come off, amended & stored. After that, the old construction fill needs to be dug out and repurposed( used as aggregate or reclaimed wood) or go to landfill elsewhere.
After *that*, the original top fill will be laid out on top of the cobble and compacted, then left to settle for a couple of months before they lay the slab. Did the same thing at my house on the same alluvial plain.
They were gonna have to dig it all anyway even if it was single story, part of the reason they couldn’t develop it prior.

I'm wondering about how that all works. The city is supposed to do the soil mitigation. Then the construction starts. So, what actually happens between those? The small part of the area which is going to be the arena really doesn't need anything 'replaced' since it's all coming out anyway, but I don't suppose it will actually be done that way.

Right?

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

Reading the RFP

I'm wondering about how that all works. The city is supposed to do the soil mitigation. Then the construction starts. So, what actually happens between those? The small part of the area which is going to be the arena really doesn't need anything 'replaced' since it's all coming out anyway, but I don't suppose it will actually be done that way.

Right?

Reading the RFP, the developer is on the hook for remediation. It all has to come out.

 

[aqib]

If need be they can play at Veterans Memorial Coliseum once the shovel hits the dirt, or should I say if.

Its probably no worse than Nassau Coliseum.

Didn't Nassau have a big renovation done after the Islanders went to Brooklyn?

 

[aqib]

Or…. the mayor just wanted out of the extra $9 million they were paying and, after getting a new majority in the council, was already working behind the scenes to terminate the lease.

The lease that he swore on the record would do everything he could to make it work.

Not the first time ol’ Jerry Weiers backstabbed someone to get what he wanted. Wasn’t the last either.

The original lease would have run out in 2028 so if the Tempe deal goes through and they come up with a bridge deal he would only have lost 1 year of the Coyotes.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Didn't Nassau have a big renovation done after the Islanders went to Brooklyn?

They called it a renovation, but it was more of a face lift Basically they upgraded the ice plant, the WiFi & other infrastructure, plus they removed about 2000 seats. And they installed some good awful fascia along the outside of the building to make it seem like more modern. All at a cost of $175M. I haven't been there in ages, so I can't say if the investment was worthwhile.

 

[uhlaw97]

The Coyotes really just need to pack up, relocate to Houston, and become the new Aeros.

 

[MNNumbers]

The Coyotes really just need to pack up, relocate to Houston, and become the new Aeros.

Welcome to the discussion. Where have you been?