Confirmed with Link: Arizona Coyotes to remain Glendale through 2018-2019

rt

The Kinder, Gentler Version
May 13, 2004
97,551
46,597
A Rockwellian Pleasantville
Raanta is much more valuable than Smith. The only thing worse than having the team in Glendale is the way the team has played the last six years. They'll never be succeful in Glendale. They'll never be successful in any other Arizona town if they don't contend for several years in a row.
 

sec107

Registered User
Dec 21, 2017
10
5
So far the signs are not very encouraging. OEL is going to be due for a big payday in the next year or so then it will be Max Domi followed by a number of the other expiring ELCs. This owner hasn’t shown any sign that he’s willing or able to spend the money it will take to win. But at least we’ve got the best penalty kill! That actually made me laugh out loud. The team pukes up games to Pittsburgh and Florida and the team website has banner headlines about how they lead the league on the PK! Hilarious!
 

Bonsai Tree

Turning a new leaf
Feb 2, 2014
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Ottawa usually ices a very good team and they have real issues with arena location and attendance.
 

Bonsai Tree

Turning a new leaf
Feb 2, 2014
9,243
4,583
As far as the arena is concerned, naturally everyone wishes the rink was 15 minutes from their front door but the idea that another arena location will magically fix the team’s attendance problems is nonsense. Only a good quality, winning team will fix that. If and when that happens it won’t matter where the arena is, as the attendance during the 2012 playoff run proved.
That doesn't rebut my argument at all. My point is that location is the limiting factor on the Coyotes attendance problems. While a poor team in Scottsdale might not draw, not even a successful team in Glendale will draw.

Oh, and lest I forget, welcome to the Coyotes boards!
 

Mosby

Salt Lake Bound
Feb 16, 2012
23,783
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Toronto
You can't add the salary of Stepan without subtracting the salary of Smith.

I see nothing wrong with applauding the PK. It was terrible under 8 years of Tippett. I don't know the stats under Wayne but I would venture it was poor as well.
 
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Tom Polakis

Next expansion
Nov 24, 2008
4,507
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Tempe, AZ
The arena location is an excuse.
2. Anybody who believes that the Calgary Flames are moving anywhere in our lifetime is dreaming in technicolor! There's all kinds of posturing going on from all parties but the chances of a move are zero.
3. Perhaps as exasperating as the Coyotes season to date has been the performance of Vegas. Somebody tell me how an expansion team that's less than 3 months old has been flirting with the conference lead all season and has already beaten the Coyotes, a team that has been established in its current location for more than 20 years, 3 times!!! I'm not sure if that means there should be mass firings in the Coyotes organization or among the geniuses who formulated this expansion draft!? I don't mind an expansion team being somewhat competitive but this is ridiculous.
4. Where are all the geniuses who wanted Mike Smith sent packing?? While Smith makes a case for All-star selection the Coyotes goaltending situation has been a tire fire all season. Turns out Smith wasn't that bad after all!
5. Can we please stop the talk of all the "great young prospects" we have? Outside of Jacob Chychrun, Clayton Keller, Christian Fischer, and maybe Christian Dvorak none of them have proven themselves as legitimate NHL players. Let's face facts...Dylan Strome is a bust and Anthony Duclair isn't far from that status. Perlini takes every other shift off. Lawson Crouse got a great chance to establish himself as an NHL player and has now disappeared.
6. As much talk as there has been about this being a young team, there is a very significant veteran presence and they are the reason for the team's current record. We now know why Florida wanted to get rid of Jason Demers. OEL hasn't been much better. Norris Trophy candidate?? Puh-leeze!
Derek Stepan hasn't done much and has anybody seen Toby Reider or Jordan Martinook lately. To give credit where it is due, Goligoski and Schenn have been pretty decent all year. Schenn has no foot speed but that's not his game. He does what he's good at, being a physical presence night after night.
7. Any other hockey market in the world and Chayka and Tocchet would be called to account by now....both would be long gone if they were in a Canadian market. Heck, we've seen that you can start from zero before the season started and still have more than twice the number of wins the Coyotes have.

Welcome to the board.
1) Partially true, but we've been through this subject at length. Perhaps you are not aware of the Valley's demographics. The location is not only on the edge of town, but it's also the wrong edge. Central Phoenix and suburbs to the east are generally more affluent, and dare I say, more cosmopolitan. While a more eastlern location would not fix all attendance issues, its current location certainly harms them.
3) Are you complaining about the structure of the expansion draft, or lumping this into a complaint about the Coyotes' performance?
4) A hot Mike Smith can be great goaltending, but he is prone to meltdowns more than most. Six years was enough, particularly at that ridiculous price.
5) You've named four pretty good prospects right off. Agree about Duclair, but Perlini is fine; I don't know where you get the notion that he's taking shifts off. The jury is still out on Strome; I'm not a fan, but he's very young.
6) Goligoski and Schenn have been pretty decent?!? At least Schenn is buried on the third pairing, but I can't name a worse defenseman since the David Hale days. Goligoski is far under-performing for that contract.
7) What moves in particular has Chayka made that were mistakes, and would have him long gone in a Canadian market? He might have been held in too high regard last Summer, but I can't name one trade in which I long for the players we lost. Anthony DeAngelo, Conor Murphy, Laurent Dauphin, Jamie McGinn? You can't "start from zero" with a team that has players under contract, so it actually can be a disadvantage over the Knights' sparkling new team.

It appears that you're broad-brushing everybody that's associated with the organization for this miserable season. The reasons are multi-faceted; most outside observers expected a bubble team this season.
 
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sec107

Registered User
Dec 21, 2017
10
5
Welcome to the board.
1) Partially true, but we've been through this subject at length. Perhaps you are not aware of the Valley's demographics. The location is not only on the edge of town, but it's also the wrong edge. Central Phoenix and suburbs to the east are generally more affluent, and dare I say, more cosmopolitan. While a more eastlern location would not fix all attendance issues, its current location certainly harms them.
3) Are you complaining about the structure of the expansion draft, or lumping this into a complaint about the Coyotes' performance?
4) A hot Mike Smith can be great goaltending, but he is prone to meltdowns more than most. Six years was enough, particularly at that ridiculous price.
5) You've named four pretty good prospects right off. Agree about Duclair, but Perlini is fine; I don't know where you get the notion that he's taking shifts off. The jury is still out on Strome; I'm not a fan, but he's very young.
6) Goligoski and Schenn have been pretty decent?!? At least Schenn is buried on the third pairing, but I can't name a worse defenseman since the David Hale days. Goligoski is far under-performing for that contract.
7) What moves in particular has Chayka made that were mistakes, and would have him long gone in a Canadian market? He might have been held in too high regard last Summer, but I can't name one trade in which I long for the players we lost. Anthony DeAngelo, Conor Murphy, Laurent Dauphin, Jamie McGinn? You can't "start from zero" with a team that has players under contract, so it actually can be a disadvantage over the Knights' sparkling new team.

It appears that you're broad-brushing everybody that's associated with the organization for this miserable season. The reasons are multi-faceted; most outside observers expected a bubble team this season.
1. I'm very aware of the Valley's demographics. I've been a regular winter resident for 8 years. Mesa cosmopolitan?? But I digress. North America is full of pro sports franchises where the venues are significant distances removed from population centres. Phoenix has one of the best freeway systems in the country and traffic problems are much better than many locations. Coyote ticket prices are a fraction of what other teams charge. When a 30-something hockey fan enters the arena wearing a Chicago or Detroit jersey, even though he hasn't;t lived in those cities for 20 years and he's got his 5 year-old son by the hand and the kid is also in a Chicago jersey probably never having been within 500 miles of Chicago, then you understand why building an arena in Tempe or Scottsdale would make no difference. The team has done little on the ice to create allegiances since human beings are basically bandwagon jumpers.
3. Yes...both! But hats off to the Vegas braintrust.
7. I actually held very high hopes for DeAngelo but I have to admit that he hasn't exactly torn up the league with the Rangers. I might turn your question around and ask what moves has Chayka made that have added significantly to the team? Stepan? Invisible most nights. Raanta? Hjarmalsson? Can't stay healthy. Cousins? Invisible...a healthy scratch most nights. I will give him credit for Rinaldo who has been a pleasant surprise. The bottom line is 7 wins at this juncture is unacceptable under any circumstances.
Thanks for the welcome...happy to exchange thoughts on my favourite hockey team...without any other agendas.....
 

cobra427

Registered User
May 6, 2012
9,342
3,379
1. I'm very aware of the Valley's demographics. I've been a regular winter resident for 8 years. Mesa cosmopolitan?? But I digress. North America is full of pro sports franchises where the venues are significant distances removed from population centres. Phoenix has one of the best freeway systems in the country and traffic problems are much better than many locations. Coyote ticket prices are a fraction of what other teams charge. When a 30-something hockey fan enters the arena wearing a Chicago or Detroit jersey, even though he hasn't;t lived in those cities for 20 years and he's got his 5 year-old son by the hand and the kid is also in a Chicago jersey probably never having been within 500 miles of Chicago, then you understand why building an arena in Tempe or Scottsdale would make no difference. The team has done little on the ice to create allegiances since human beings are basically bandwagon jumpers.
3. Yes...both! But hats off to the Vegas braintrust.
7. I actually held very high hopes for DeAngelo but I have to admit that he hasn't exactly torn up the league with the Rangers. I might turn your question around and ask what moves has Chayka made that have added significantly to the team? Stepan? Invisible most nights. Raanta? Hjarmalsson? Can't stay healthy. Cousins? Invisible...a healthy scratch most nights. I will give him credit for Rinaldo who has been a pleasant surprise. The bottom line is 7 wins at this juncture is unacceptable under any circumstances.
Thanks for the welcome...happy to exchange thoughts on my favourite hockey team...without any other agendas.....
People live in Phoenix for the weather and lifestyle. The fan base is in the east valley and that is where the wealth is located too. People aren't going to make the trip from Scottsdale/Tempe/Chandler to Glendale to watch hockey. An east valley location will help sell season tickets and have more casual fans going to games. Nobody would ever go to Glendale if the Coyotes/Cardinals weren't there.
 

Jamieh

Registered User
Apr 25, 2012
11,306
6,354
Wasn't sure where to put this as It's ticket discussion. I haven't gone to a game in awhile so when I got a boxing day deal I looked up what game I wanted to see. The deal was decent, lower level seats for $36. Pick out seats and go to checkout and price shows $119???? How the heck is it reasonable to have almost $50 In fees on a product that us just over $70??? Fees are 47% of the ticket price.
 

Matias Maccete

Chopping up defenses
Sep 21, 2014
9,697
3,619
Wasn't sure where to put this as It's ticket discussion. I haven't gone to a game in awhile so when I got a boxing day deal I looked up what game I wanted to see. The deal was decent, lower level seats for $36. Pick out seats and go to checkout and price shows $119???? How the heck is it reasonable to have almost $50 In fees on a product that us just over $70??? Fees are 47% of the ticket price.
Was that through Ticketmaster? If so try calling the team, the fees are way less that way. I had a similar experience when I went to get tickets to the opening night game.
 

Jamieh

Registered User
Apr 25, 2012
11,306
6,354
Was that through Ticketmaster? If so try calling the team, the fees are way less that way. I had a similar experience when I went to get tickets to the opening night game.
It was an email from team but yeah I guess tickets were on ticket master. Thanks I'll give that a try tomorrow.
 

zz

Registered User
Nov 1, 2006
6,170
353
Wasn't sure where to put this as It's ticket discussion. I haven't gone to a game in awhile so when I got a boxing day deal I looked up what game I wanted to see. The deal was decent, lower level seats for $36. Pick out seats and go to checkout and price shows $119???? How the heck is it reasonable to have almost $50 In fees on a product that us just over $70??? Fees are 47% of the ticket price.

They just bait you with 'cheap' tickets and add 40% to it once it's time to pay.
My guess:

$6.60 (Service Fee) goes to TM
$11.50 (Facility Charge) goes to Gila River Arena (maybe the city of Glendale gets that?)
$4.95 Order Processing Fee gets split between Coyotes and TM
$ 5 will call - Coyotes?

So really, your $ 36 ticket is a $ 55 one.

I hate TM like everyone else, but a lot of people don't realize the proceeds of the scam is actually split between them and the event organizer.
 

Coyotes2000

Registered User
Jun 25, 2007
1,996
238
AZ
1. I'm very aware of the Valley's demographics. I've been a regular winter resident for 8 years. Mesa cosmopolitan?? But I digress. North America is full of pro sports franchises where the venues are significant distances removed from population centres. Phoenix has one of the best freeway systems in the country and traffic problems are much better than many locations. Coyote ticket prices are a fraction of what other teams charge. When a 30-something hockey fan enters the arena wearing a Chicago or Detroit jersey, even though he hasn't;t lived in those cities for 20 years and he's got his 5 year-old son by the hand and the kid is also in a Chicago jersey probably never having been within 500 miles of Chicago, then you understand why building an arena in Tempe or Scottsdale would make no difference. The team has done little on the ice to create allegiances since human beings are basically bandwagon jumpers.
3. Yes...both! But hats off to the Vegas braintrust.
7. I actually held very high hopes for DeAngelo but I have to admit that he hasn't exactly torn up the league with the Rangers. I might turn your question around and ask what moves has Chayka made that have added significantly to the team? Stepan? Invisible most nights. Raanta? Hjarmalsson? Can't stay healthy. Cousins? Invisible...a healthy scratch most nights. I will give him credit for Rinaldo who has been a pleasant surprise. The bottom line is 7 wins at this juncture is unacceptable under any circumstances.
Thanks for the welcome...happy to exchange thoughts on my favourite hockey team...without any other agendas.....

You're insane if you think arena location won't have an effect. The team needs a better product but that commute out West for folks out East is a deal breaker during the week, winning or losing. Where in the valley do you live? Are you retired? (I'm assuming so based on your comment about wintering here) I'm 34 years old working downtown Phoenix. I can't go home to pick up my kid in Gilbert and drive to Glendale for a 7pm start. It's impossible. Heading to Talking Stick resort (One of the rumored locations)? No big deal. The VAST majority of Hockey fans reside on the east side. Corporate sponsors reside on the east side. Simply demographics and economics my friend.

The Flames are a very real relocation candidate, and I spent 26 years of my 34 years of life born and raised in Calgary and was a season ticket holder. (Prior to the 2004 run) The city almost lost the team in 2000 to Houston or Portland and if the city doesn't pony up the team will be moved. The Saddledome as much as I love it is a piece.

I think it's a cardinal sin to have your kid born in the valley and throw a Hawks jersey on them.. I'll never understand it. That kind of thing does change with winning and playoff runs. See: 2012 - The valley was Coyote crazy. I grew up in Calgary and left any allegiance or fandom I had in that cold depressing town the day I left - I wish more transplants would do the same.
 

The Feckless Puck

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I think it's a cardinal sin to have your kid born in the valley and throw a Hawks jersey on them.. I'll never understand it. That kind of thing does change with winning and playoff runs. See: 2012 - The valley was Coyote crazy. I grew up in Calgary and left any allegiance or fandom I had in that cold depressing town the day I left - I wish more transplants would do the same.

Well, that's what you get with the VAST majority of east-side hockey fans - "original allegiance." They're the fair-weather Coyotes fans whose first priority is the team they grew up with. Slag the west side all you want but at least the few of us who went to games were Coyotes fans first and forever.

If the team does get an east side arena, that's the end of my hockey-going days, because your "impossible" situation in Gilbert will become my "impossible" situation in Peoria. But I guess demographically that's not so important, hey?
 
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RemoAZ

Let it burn
Mar 30, 2010
11,158
7,500
Glendale, Arizona
Well, that's what you get with the VAST majority of east-side hockey fans - "original allegiance." They're the fair-weather Coyotes fans whose first priority is the team they grew up with. Slag the west side all you want but at least the few of us who went to games were Coyotes fans first and forever.

If the team does get an east side arena, that's the end of my hockey-going days, because your "impossible" situation in Gilbert will become my "impossible" situation in Peoria. But I guess demographically that's not so important, hey?

The majority of the east-siders that talk about how much better the team will draw if it was on the east side do so simply because they want the arena closer to them. The crap about that's where the real fans are or where the corporate sponsors are or where the people that can afford to go to the games is just that, crap. The Suns are in the best spot to draw from both sides and their attendance sucks when they suck even though they have a rich history starting in and growing with the valley being the only game in town for decades and have many seasons as real contenders, something the Coyotes have zero seasons as. You can't create a loyal fan base in Arizona being average at best a season here and there while being dreadful most of the time. It just won't happen. And without a loyal fan base, how do you convince corporate sponsors to invest big money in your team? Your sport is behind the NFL, NBA, MLB and NCAA Football in popularity and you think you will even be relevant by putting out a shitty product year after year? None of that matters though. The stadium is just in a bad spot.
 
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Bonsai Tree

Turning a new leaf
Feb 2, 2014
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The majority of the east-siders that talk about how much better the team will draw if it was on the east side do so simply because they want the arena closer to them. The crap about that's where the real fans are or where the corporate sponsors are or where the people that can afford to go to the games is just that, crap. The Suns are in the best spot to draw from both sides and their attendance sucks when they suck even though they have a rich history starting in and growing with the valley being the only game in town for decades and have many seasons as real contenders, something the Coyotes have zero seasons as. You can't create a loyal fan base in Arizona being average at best a season here and there while being dreadful most of the time. It just won't happen. And without a loyal fan base, how do you convince corporate sponsors to invest big money in your team? Your sport is behind the NFL, NBA, MLB and NCAA Football in popularity and you think you will even be relevant by putting out a ****ty product year after year? None of that matters though. The stadium is just in a bad spot.
Well, the West Side had their chance. Location, location, location. I’m hoping for downtown.
 

pfp

Registered User
Sep 4, 2007
682
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Do people really think the Blackhawks would have a problem with attendance if they played at GRA? The #1 problem is the team stinks and has for quite some time.
 
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MIGs Dog

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Do people really think the Blackhawks would have a problem with attendance if they played at GRA? The #1 problem is the team stinks and has for quite some time.

And would the Blackhawks win consistently if their payroll was near league minimum?
 
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The Feckless Puck

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Yea but the move out of AWA was driven by ancillary revenue issues, not attendance.

It was also driven by low attendance. By the time the team left for Glendale, their average attendance had dropped to the same levels we're seeing year-to-year in Glendale.
 

sec107

Registered User
Dec 21, 2017
10
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It was also driven by low attendance. By the time the team left for Glendale, their average attendance had dropped to the same levels we're seeing year-to-year in Glendale.
Exactly. Phoenix is one of those towns where nobody is actually from here. Combine that with a perennially crappy team and no strong allegiance to the game as you would find in a Canadian city and the result is poor attendance with the arena location being a convenient excuse. By the way, the Chicago fans make me laugh. You would think they have been big time supporters since the beginning of time but I remember very well attending a game in their new arena, before they started winning Stanley Cups, where the rink was half full. Human beings, for the most part, are bandwagon jumpers.
 
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Tom Polakis

Next expansion
Nov 24, 2008
4,507
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Tempe, AZ
Why do this and pretty much all internet arguments have to be argued 100 percent one way or the other? You make the valid point that a bad team in a city with mostly transplants creates a tenuous hockey market. Next you go on to argue that the location would make zero difference. Perhaps you could concede that an east side location might make some difference, even if only to the extent of a thousand or so more people at the games. You even cherry pick Mesa rather than Tempe, Scottsdale, Chandler, or east Phoenix to make your weak argument.

Another fallacy is that people who live in the east Valley only think that the east side is more wealthy because they live there. Just look at income or housing prices by zip code with no allegiance to location, and it becomes obvious who can afford even these relatively inexpensive tickets. From personal experience, I drive from Tempe twice a week to play inline hockey at a rink near Arrowhead Mall. Since I rarely take the freeways, I get a good look at Maryvale, Glendale, west Phoenix, and Peoria. Sure, there's also some wealth in the west Valley, but much less than east of central. Again, I'm not claiming it would solve the attendance problems, since I don't feel the need to argue in that manner in an attempt to prove a point.

And yes, I can also remember waaay back in 2006 or so when maybe 1000 or so Blackhawks fans showed up at Glendale Arena to mostly sit on their hands. Agreed that band-wagoning is not unique to Phoenix.
 
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