Arithmetic Working Against Canes

[Navin R Slavin]

I agree, although I guess it would depend on how much we have to pay him.

Until they get out from under the Ward and Staal contracts, it's going to be tough trying to ice a "deep" team.

Then their current strategy may be optimal. But it does not lead to short term success, so let's all stop pretending that it does.

--hank

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Then their current strategy may be optimal. But it does not lead to short term success, so let's all stop pretending that it does.

--hank

I didn't completely follow that Hank. I, for one, am not suggesting nor implying the current strategy will lead to short term success. Even before the J. Staal injury, I felt this team was likely to be drafting around #5. (or were you aiming that comment at the board in general?)

 

[raynman]

Man, #TeamKevHank is pretty awesome.

 

[What the Faulk]

I know, and I didn't mean to come over the top so strongly. I guess I'm excited to finally have some company on the "blow it up" bandwagon.

The thing is, I don't think we really need to blow it up. I think the two main issues right now are Eric Staal and Cam Ward, who are making a combined $15 million to do basically nothing that helps a team win at this level.

They won us a Cup, and we owe them big time. But I think five years is the statute of limitations on "what have you done for me lately after winning a title." When this season's Stanley Cup is awarded to a team other than us, it will make nine years since that title. It's time to move on.

So basically, you have a theory that Cam Ward is weighing down the team and should be moved? I dunno, it sounds risky.

 

[My Special Purpose]

So basically, you have a theory that Cam Ward is weighing down the team and should be moved? I dunno, it sounds risky.

And you're ignoring the "trade Eric Staal" part because it doesn't fit into the snarky comment you wanted to make which is rendered moot because you left out the "trade Eric Staal" part?

 

[DaveG]

Agreed to an extent, we definitely are trying to go WAY too top heavy here and it's not going to work out long term. Somehow getting rid of Ward and Liles alone would open up north of 10 million in cap space.

Well, we'd still have to replace them but a backup is about ~1m if that more often then not, and a good 3rd pairing RHD typically isn't that expensive either. Guess somewhere around 2.5 per would get a very good one that's capable of filling in higher in the lineup.

That leaves 6 to add some actual depth with actual talent to the 3rd line, likely in the form of a C and RW since Gerbe's a very solid #3LW. A banger 4th line along the lines of Malone-Nash-Brown/Woods is fine IMO.

We need to see what kind of return we can get on Eric, but it has to justify making the trade. If we can get something like the proposed Leafs trade of Kadri-Gardiner-1st I think we do it. But it would have to be something along those lines from any team we make said trade with otherwise it's probably not worth it to make the deal. Honestly I probably would pass on the proposed Bozak version unless there's another something major included in there, like the Canes getting the Leafs 2016 first as well should he re-sign, their 2nd should he not, and their 3rd should we sign him. Mostly because a guy like Bozak is old enough to not be worth keeping around for a rebuild given his skill level. Hell he's nearly as old as Eric, a solid 2 and a half years older then Jordan.

I no longer feel the same way about the Ward and keeping him around, haven't for a while now. I don't want us to be ****ing morons and give away a top 10 pick to be rid of him like Calgary was asking us to do (**** you Burke) but we need to find a way to offload him in the next year. Hell even if it's for a conditional 6th rounder it's worth it.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I didn't completely follow that Hank. I, for one, am not suggesting nor implying the current strategy will lead to short term success. Even before the J. Staal injury, I felt this team was likely to be drafting around #5. (or were you aiming that comment at the board in general?)

I was talking more about the talking heads, from both the team and the media, that continue to tell us that the problem is Yet Another Injury or Lazy Russian or this system or that system.

Honestly, I'm still pissed off at the **** that Karmanos was talking earlier this summer. The upper brass of this team keeps treating the fanbase like we're still a bunch of ****ing yokels, and I'm tired of it. We've been an NHL market for close to 20 years. Don't tell us that this **** smells like LaRoses.

--hank

 

[GoCanes2013]

Which team(s) have made it past the 1st round of the playoffs with 'just' a deep roster (no SuperStars)? There has to be a balance. You need 1 gamechanger Superstar to build around. Our (potential) SuperStars, while sometimes very good, were never true SuperStars. I suppose our SC winning team might be the best example of a true 'team' win?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Which team(s) have made it past the 1st round of the playoffs with 'just' a deep roster (no SuperStars)? There has to be a balance. You need 1 gamechanger Superstar to build around. Our (potential) SuperStars, while sometimes very good, were never true SuperStars. I suppose our SC winning team might be the best example of a true 'team' win?

I really don't think anybody is saying literally "no superstars", but the Canes have "Superstars" not living up to their salaries, combined with little other talent, no depth, poor defense, and few players that they developed who can contribute on the cheap. Look at LA Kings. Yes, they have a couple of Superstars, but they also have fantastic depth and something like 13 of their players were drafted and developed by the Kings.

 

[GoCanes2013]

Makes sense, thanks.

 

[Ole Gil]

I think talk of a 1 year rebuild is a little silly, as even if everything goes right, 16-17 is the season that the next generation would begin stepping up. You keep Staal next year, then the top 2 pick gets eased into the NHL on the 3rd line. Plus Eric might be more valuable as a rental with the chance to extend than as a year left on a monstrous contract.

Unless the idea is that trading Eric is how we become terrible enough to secure the pick to begin with...then it would be trickier.

 

[VAcaniac]

Weren't the 07 Caps like in last place through november/decemberish?

That gives us enough time to get healthy and win the cup. I don't know why you guys are so skeptical about everything magically clicking when everyone gets healthy.

 

[My Special Purpose]

With 10 percent of the season in the crapper, we'd need to play .608 hockey the rest of the way to get to 92 points.

We really need to embrace the tank and finish at the bottom. It's simply the best way to get back to the top.

 

[VAcaniac]

With 10 percent of the season in the crapper, we'd need to play .608 hockey the rest of the way to get to 92 points.

We really need to embrace the tank and finish at the bottom. It's simply the best way to get back to the top.

But if we match the franchise record and win 9 in a row, we'll only need a .554 hockey the rest of the way...

 

[rocky7]

I was talking more about the talking heads, from both the team and the media, that continue to tell us that the problem is Yet Another Injury or Lazy Russian or this system or that system.

Honestly, I'm still pissed off at the **** that Karmanos was talking earlier this summer. The upper brass of this team keeps treating the fanbase like we're still a bunch of ****ing yokels, and I'm tired of it. We've been an NHL market for close to 20 years. Don't tell us that this **** smells like LaRoses.

--hank

^ this to me continues to be the biggest issue of all (even when JR was still here).



and speaking about Ward. I'm not a Ward hater. for whatever reasons he's had one hell of a time and I suppose that happens. I've heard all the reasons (some of which BB reiterated in an earlier discussion) they said as to why they didn't move him and I still have a hard time believing them. not saying I'm right and I could be completely wrong in my thinking about it but could they really not even give him away just to cut salary? Ward's NTC probably played a big role in the efforts to move him if they even tried that hard IMO.

I think Francis has taken several calculated gambles and none are working out as he envisioned. to what extent Karmanos played in that idk but I bet it was significant.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Think about this way:

No team wants to pay Ward's salary to be a backup, so that eliminates most of the league. Going into this offseason, who really needed a starting goalie? Calgary, Islanders and Winnipeg.

We know what it was (allegedly) going to take for Calgary to take Ward, so that was a no-go from the start. The Islanders opted to go with the free agent route and signed Halak. And Winnipeg...well, if anyone has any idea what Chevy is thinking, they'll be the first. Even if Winnipeg was interested, I doubt Ward would have waived his NTC to go there.

So even if Francis did shop Ward aggressively, his trading partners were severely limited by the market, and even more so by Ward's contract and NTC. Then the organization also had to consider the possibility that either A: Ward bounces back to form or B: Khudobin can't handle the starter's job and weigh those possibilities against any return they could have gotten for him.

It's a tough pill to swallow, but the team has the misfortune of Ward's game falling off a cliff at the same time that the goalie market is at its weakest.

 

[My Special Purpose]

I was talking more about the talking heads, from both the team and the media, that continue to tell us that the problem is Yet Another Injury or Lazy Russian or this system or that system.

Honestly, I'm still pissed off at the **** that Karmanos was talking earlier this summer. The upper brass of this team keeps treating the fanbase like we're still a bunch of ****ing yokels, and I'm tired of it. We've been an NHL market for close to 20 years. Don't tell us that this **** smells like LaRoses.

--hank

The ironic part about this is that if they'd simply make a plan and share it with us honestly, we'd likely buy in and support them through the process.

If they come out and say, "We're in a bit of a jam here, but here's the broad strokes of what we're going to do to fix it," we'd probably line up to buy tickets. But the longer they go turning a blind eye to what is obvious to just about every fan, the longer they delay receiving our support.

I said this a week ago and it goes double now, but Francis's silence through this streak is frustrating to me. Even JR did an interview during a game every now and then. Ronnie seems oblivious to what's going on. I just don't get how he can be this asleep at the wheel.

 

[Lazyking]

Was someone here really holding onto the playoffs? I don't really like these threads though cause telling people to stop hoping for something is rather pointless. Not everyone watches sports from season to season looking towards next year.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

The ironic part about this is that if they'd simply make a plan and share it with us honestly, we'd likely buy in and support them through the process.

We would. A lot of fans might not. Tough to say. I think the majority of fans would appreciate a plan.

Of course, if that plan is "tank for McEichel", he can't actually talk about that, can he?

If they come out and say, "We're in a bit of a jam here, but here's the broad strokes of what we're going to do to fix it," we'd probably line up to buy tickets. But the longer they go turning a blind eye to what is obvious to just about every fan, the longer they delay receiving our support.

I said this a week ago and it goes double now, but Francis's silence through this streak is frustrating to me. Even JR did an interview during a game every now and then. Ronnie seems oblivious to what's going on. I just don't get how he can be this asleep at the wheel.

I don't know if it follows that Ronnie is oblivious, exactly. Honestly, what is there to communicate? "Sorry that the season is over after ten games?"

I dunno about you guys, but personally, I want to see All The Kids. No one on this roster over age 23. Switch 75% of the Charlotte and Raleigh rosters. If our various fourth liners / seventh D-men don't clear waivers, fine. If we hit the salary floor, so much the better. Pick up Ogie Ogilthorpe and the last living Hanson brother to give the fans something to cheer about. Let's see if the remaining NHLers can win a Calder Cup in Charlotte, so at least someone in this state has something to cheer for.

--hank

 

[Ole Gil]

The ironic part about this is that if they'd simply make a plan and share it with us honestly, we'd likely buy in and support them through the process.

If they come out and say, "We're in a bit of a jam here, but here's the broad strokes of what we're going to do to fix it," we'd probably line up to buy tickets. But the longer they go turning a blind eye to what is obvious to just about every fan, the longer they delay receiving our support.

I said this a week ago and it goes double now, but Francis's silence through this streak is frustrating to me. Even JR did an interview during a game every now and then. Ronnie seems oblivious to what's going on. I just don't get how he can be this asleep at the wheel.

If there is one thing we've seen from Francis so far, it's patience and diligence. I don't think you're going to see much in terms of knee jerk short term reactions.

 

[What the Faulk]

I don't recall JR doing that many interviews. He'd float quotes every now and then that had a bit more weight, but he wasn't exactly a weekly guest on any of the radio shows. Francis was on Adam/Joe not that long before the road trip, and it seems like he has been pretty busy since.

 

[What the Faulk]

Actually, good timing. Francis speaks:

http://hurricanes.nhl.com/club/m_news.htm?id=736775

 

[Joe McGrath]

Actually, good timing. Francis speaks:

http://hurricanes.nhl.com/club/m_news.htm?id=736775

The first comment and its response are just perfect. First guy wants to scapegoat Semin, 2nd guy blames Semin's struggles on Tlusty "the most overrated player in the league". ****, people are dumb.

Edit: If either of those comments were someone on here, I apologize, but you're dumb.

 

[Ole Gil]

"We’re in a hole, and we’ve got to stop digging and figure a way to make ourselves better to get out of it."

That's the quote that gives me hope. If ever there is a sign he's not the same as JR, this is it.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

francis is bd58

#confirmed