Claimed off Waivers: [ARI] Coyotes claim D Juuso Valimaki off waivers from the Flames

[lanky]

He and Walman are the breakout top 4 defenders out of nowhere for me this year.

You can say “he needs to keep it up for me to believe” but it’s hard to argue with the actual results. Playing big top pairing minutes and producing these kind of results on Arizona is pretty incredible. He’s not just a body filling an empty role like Chiarot did on Montreal last year when he was playing 24 minutes a night.

This is top drawer stuff.

Quoting this because the thread has strayed pretty far away from appreciation of Valimaki's game.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Flames suck at developing prospects.

Only way they hit with them is if their NHL ready and will luckily get a few good years out of them.

I'll say right now if Huberdeau is traded to another team he'll be a star again. Flames are a bad organization.

 

[XX]

He's not a flat out top 4 guy. Not even close. He's a #1 for AZ. He doesn't even make the roster of a healthy Flames/Rangers type blueline.

11.5 GAR player playing 20+ mins a night doesn't make Calgary's blueline?

 

[Double Dion]

11.5 GAR player playing 20+ mins a night doesn't make Calgary's blueline?

Nope. He was our 9th best defenseman in camp and in fact didn't make our blueline. He wasn't even close. That's without Kylington. With him he was 10th.

 

[BKarchitect]

Nope. He was our 9th best defenseman in camp and in fact didn't make our blueline. He wasn't even close. That's without Kylington. With him he was 10th.

Clearly he’s the same player he was in September. I mean how can there by any other explanation….then again acknowledging that he’s actually gotten really good, even with the agreement that said development probably would‘t have happened on Calgary…that’s a bridge too far.

I was told by Dallas fans three years ago after Nichushkin started to completely take off both via the eye test and by advanced analytics and by usage on his new team that this wasn’t possible since he was terrible with them and yet here we are.

It’s definitely hard to acknowledge Valimaki has become a legitimate top four defender for his new team if your argument is stuck back from last fall in a completely different situation.

 

[Double Dion]

Clearly he’s the same player he was in September. I mean how can there by any other explanation….then again acknowledging that he’s actually gotten really good, even with the agreement that said development probably would‘t have happened on Calgary…that’s a bridge too far.

I was told by Dallas fans three years ago after Nichushkin started to completely take off both via the eye test and by advanced analytics and by usage on his new team that this wasn’t possible since he was terrible with them and yet here we are.

It’s definitely hard to acknowledge Valimaki has become a legitimate top four defender for his new team if your argument is stuck back from last fall in a completely different situation.

Your argument has partial validity. He HAS gotten BETTER in Az. He was a #10 defenseman in September. My argument is he is a bottom pairing defenseman now. He's a #6 on a healthy Flames team (bubble type team). He doesn't make the Rangers blueline (solid playoff team). He's NOT a top 4 defenseman on a playoff team, not even a bad blueline playoff team like Edmonton.

 

[mattihp]

Your argument has partial validity. He HAS gotten BETTER in Az. He was a #10 defenseman in September. My argument is he is a bottom pairing defenseman now. He's a #6 on a healthy Flames team (bubble type team). He doesn't make the Rangers blueline (solid playoff team). He's NOT a top 4 defenseman on a playoff team, not even a bad blueline playoff team like Edmonton.

If #6 defensemen could perform like that, the NHL needs 15 more teams .

 

[Some Other Flame]

Haven't watched a lot of Valimaki since the trade but in the games against Calgary, a couple of things stuck out. The increased ice time & responsibility has done wonders for his confidence and unsurprisingly, restored his offensive game. But at the same time, he's still prone to some terrible defensive miscues and it's those mistakes that would have seen him remain in Dutter's doghouse and a semi-permanent healthy scratch.

For better or worse, Calgary's defense has a pecking order and Valimaki, by his own deterioration in play was near the bottom. And what Darryl Sutter wants from his bottom pairing defensemen is the complete opposite of Valimaki's current game. But even without Sutter's dinosaur antics, it just wasn't going to work out in Calgary after Valimaki's back-to-back leg injuries. His confidence was shattered and he badly needed a change of scenery. And going to an openly tanking team that could give him all the minutes and opportunities he wanted without any repercussion was exactly what he needed to get going. It's just bad luck (and some questionable drafting) on Calgary's part.

 

[mattihp]

Haven't watched a lot of Valimaki since the trade but in the games against Calgary, a couple of things stuck out. The increased ice time & responsibility has done wonders for his confidence and unsurprisingly, restored his offensive game. But at the same time, he's still prone to some terrible defensive miscues and it's those mistakes that would have seen him remain in Dutter's doghouse and a semi-permanent healthy scratch.

For better or worse, Calgary's defense has a pecking order and Valimaki, by his own deterioration in play was near the bottom. And what Darryl Sutter wants from his bottom pairing defensemen is the complete opposite of Valimaki's current game. But even without Sutter's dinosaur antics, it just wasn't going to work out in Calgary after Valimaki's back-to-back leg injuries. His confidence was shattered and he badly needed a change of scenery. And going to an openly tanking team that could give him all the minutes and opportunities he wanted without any repercussion was exactly what he needed to get going. It's just bad luck (and some questionable drafting) on Calgary's part.

This is the best assessment of the situation in this thread. Great job! Appreciate it

 

[Double Dion]

If #6 defensemen could perform like that, the NHL needs 15 more teams .

You'd need to score 6 goals per game with a team full of Valimakis. Which of Hanifin, Andersson, Weegar, Tanev, Kylington or Zadorov do you have him ahead of?

 

[SpaceCoyote]

You'd need to score 6 goals per game with a team full of Valimakis. Which of Hanifin, Andersson, Weegar, Tanev, Kylington or Zadorov do you have him ahead of?

I wouldn't be surprised if he was ahead of Kylington at this point. Missing an entire season after just one good year could easily lead to a step back.

 

[Kaizen]

Is Kylington expected back next year? Is his contract being tolled? I'm not familiar with why he stayed home.

 

[Double Dion]

I wouldn't be surprised if he was ahead of Kylington at this point. Missing an entire season after just one good year could easily lead to a step back.

That's silly. Kylington has the 4th best possession rates in the league last season. He'd be closer to Zadorov than Kylington.

 

[HockeyThoughts]

Flames suck at developing prospects.

Only way they hit with them is if their NHL ready and will luckily get a few good years out of them.

I'll say right now if Huberdeau is traded to another team he'll be a star again. Flames are a bad organization.

Not a Flames fan but are we just going to ignore that they drafted and developed Gaudreau and Tkachuk?

 

[Double Dion]

Not a Flames fan but are we just going to ignore that they drafted and developed Gaudreau and Tkachuk?

No we didn't. Both stepped right in. One out of junior and the other out of college.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Not beating out Zadorov? lol

You clearly haven’t watched much Zadorov this year. He’s a beast.

 

[Backlund]

Flames suck at developing prospects.

Only way they hit with them is if their NHL ready and will luckily get a few good years out of them.

I'll say right now if Huberdeau is traded to another team he'll be a star again. Flames are a bad organization.

They've developed a couple but it's still not close to enough. Andersson, Mangiapane, Dube and Hathaway are all players that were developed by the Flames. It's gotten better now with Pelletier, Zary, Wolf and Poirier all looking like future NHLers.

 

[Mr Positive]

I would love for the Oilers to snag top spot in the Pacific

Those wild card teams are more fodder than usual

 

[SpaceCoyote]

That's silly. Kylington has the 4th best possession rates in the league last season. He'd be closer to Zadorov than Kylington.

I never said he wasn't better while he was actually playing, clearly Kylington had one very good season. There is no telling how his year off has effected him until he has returned. Not to mention if you are talking about which top 6 you would take Valimaki over today, he would beat out anyone not able to play in the NHL currently.

 

[Fig]

They've developed a couple but it's still not close to enough. Andersson, Mangiapane, Dube and Hathaway are all players that were developed by the Flames. It's gotten better now with Pelletier, Zary, Wolf and Poirier all looking like future NHLers.

Kylington, Lomberg and Kulak are others that were on the fringe before taking a sudden leap when given the opportunity. Pospisil looks good too, as long as he stays healthy.

The problem is that the Flames are really good at the bottom 9, but desperately need some elite tier talent for the top 6.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Happy he's found a spot to succeed. Still mad we couldn't at least get another change of scenery type prospect for him.