Proposal: Are you in favor of trading Bo Horvat?

[F A N]

While I wish Bo had a more consistent presence on the ice, Bo is a legit 2C, and his last playoff performance shows he's a player that can step up in big games. That being said, I'm not sure he's worth the combination of his next contract PLUS the substantial assets he could bring back now or in the offseason. It shouldn't be difficult to use Bo to bring back a nice asset+free up cap space, or even use him to unload a bad contract. Kinda sucks, but 2C's are replaceable, and this is what Benning has left the team with.

I would kick the tires to see what kind of return he could get. His league-wide reputation is probably better than what he contributes on the ice (he's probably still seen as a two-way beast outside our market).

I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out Horvat this season. Statistically, his goal totals are around his usual averages but his assists totals are way down. His assists per 60 is lower than that of Lammikko's. Haven't really seen any "Bo Rushes" from him or have the puck on his stick. Perhaps it's due to the change in system but it seems that he plays back a bit more and doesn't really get in on the forecheck. The team has been better defensively at even strength and with PK usage spread out you don't really notice Horvat being hemmed in either. He barely gets hit.

He's not exactly playing poorly. In fact, besides his assists totals being down, statistically it appears to be par the course with him. Perhaps he is playing more efficiently but I don't even notice Horvat making an effort. At least Petey tries to do things. Horvat seems to be invisible and then scores a goal from time to time. He's still taking a ton of faceoffs and winning his fair share (currently top 10 in the league in faceoff %). Is he doing more of the little things" that isn't apparent? Or is he kind of going through the motions and is good enough to contribute.

With Miller's move to C this year, the comparison to Horvat is more apparent. Miller is the better playmaker and has a greater ability to drive his line offensively. Meanwhile, Horvat is the captain and fits into Sedins, Naslund, and Linden mould of leadership - nice and professional. Miller is prone to his hissy fits and bad giveaways.

At the end of the day, I think I think Horvat's next contract will end at an age that is the same as Miller's next contract. The difference would be that Horvat is two years younger so the extension will pay for his 28 and 29 years whereas Miller's next contract starts at his age 30 year.

 

[orcatown]

What you see is what you'll get. He is not getting any better and right now he is pretty mediocre.

He is a player that has been given front line status on poor teams. Got the benefit of playing the PP although he has, especially recently, not played all that well on it. Defensively he has never been good. In his 8 seasons with the team he has always been a minus player and overall is a -75 during that period. I believe that to be close to the worst minus figure of any NHL player over that period.

Moreover as the League speeds up, the heavy footed Horvat is likely to experience even greater problems.

Saying you know for a fact Miller is gone when his contract ends is incorrect. We may speculate but this remains conjecture. If there is any choice Miller is obviously the one to keep. However, the trading of Horvat should not solely be based on a either/or situation with Miller and Horvat. Just based on his play, his history and his likely decline there is every reason to consider what you can get for Horvat.

 

[MS]

What you see is what you'll get. He is not getting any better and right now he is pretty mediocre.

He is a player that has been given front line status on poor teams. Got the benefit of playing the PP although he has, especially recently, not played all that well on it. Defensively he has never been good. In his 8 seasons with the team he has always been a minus player and overall is a -75 during that period. I believe that to be close to the worst minus figure of any NHL player over that period.

Moreover as the League speeds up, the heavy footed Horvat is likely to experience even greater problems.

Saying you know for a fact Miller is gone when his contract ends is incorrect. We may speculate but this remains conjecture. If there is any choice Miller is obviously the one to keep. However, the trading of Horvat should not solely be based on a either/or situation with Miller and Horvat. Just based on his play, his history and his likely decline there is every reason to consider what you can get for Horvat.

I disagree that he's poor defensively.

To me he's an average-to-slightly-above-average defensive C who gets put in far higher leverage/matchup situations than his ability merits because he plays on a team that does not have any sort of high-leverage #3C on their roster.

He's not Patrice Bergeron but he gets prime Bergeron usage and he ends up bleeding goals at times in that role.

If this team had a Philip Danault or some such chewing through the tough defensive minutes as the #3C and Horvat was given a more 'normal' #2C type of usage, I think his defensive metrics and results would look much better.

That said, there has been some poor habits creeping into his game - lazy turnovers and high-risk neutral zone plays - this year in particular that weren't there a few years ago.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Would also like to point out +/- is one of the worst "stats" to use. I have no idea why the dude is so lousy at killing penalties. His production I think in part can be blamed on us having 2 set plays we use on the PP constantly and neither have worked to any great success this year. Bo was one the best at finishing a bumper play but teams are reading it.

 

[Snatcher Demko]

I'd be reluctant to trade Horvat unless you're getting a top-end C prospect in return that is ready to contribute. I do think he is a little overrated considering his recent play but what else do we really have at center?

 

[VanJack]

I'd be reluctant to trade Horvat unless you're getting a top-end C prospect in return that is ready to contribute. I do think he is a little overrated considering his recent play but what else do we really have at center?

Have to concur.....looking at the Canucks black hole when it comes to organizational depth at center, trading Horvat is a non-starter.

But when it comes to the PK, it's a 'two-edged sword' with Horvat. He's out there for faceoff duty because he wins so many. But if he loses the draw and the other teams sets up on PP, look out! You'd think by now it's something that he'd have improved upon as his career marches forward, but apparently not. .

 

[CanucksSayEh]

I remember when we talked about a JT-Bo-EP option down the middle as a position of strength...................

 

[brock hughes007]

I voted yes,,I'd rather keep Miller over Horvat,,Miller has been the heart of this team this year..

 

[Bobby Digital]

Yes just because I don't think he'll age that we'll. He already seems to be declining a little bit.

Would love to trade him and get a prospect like Svechkov + back

Highly doubt he gets traded though.

 

[Diamonddog01]

I’ve stated my views on this player and this idea for a while so won’t repeat myself. Another reason to move him though would be to give the team a new identity and turn the page as an organization - he is intimately connected to the Benning era due to timing and the fact Benning foolishly decided to name him captain.

 

[geebster]

If we win the trade, yes. But if we lose the trade then no.

If we super duper lose the trade then I'll be upset. If we win by a lot I'll be very happy about it.

I'm 50/50 about a 50/50 trade.

 

[Hammer79]

I’ve stated my views on this player and this idea for a while so won’t repeat myself. Another reason to move him though would be to give the team a new identity and turn the page as an organization - he is intimately connected to the Benning era due to timing and the fact Benning foolishly decided to name him captain.

Yeah, this is it. We changed our identity in the front office, we made big changes behind the bench, we changed the way ownership interacts with management. The last domino to fall from the old era is Horvat's captaincy.

I think we had big hopes that this guy would blossom into a point-per-game C who could be the 1C and be a horse to play against. What we are getting is a guy who is good for a breakaway goal here or there, good shootout player and one of the better faceoff guys in the league, but doesn't make the players around him better. If, as another poster suggested, he was an above average defensive C, why are our PK numbers so terrible? He consistently takes the faceoff on the PK and I don't think it's all on Myers/OEL.

He is over-rated because, initially, we thought he would reach those numbers and he had a good series vs the Blues. Now, I think it's a classic case of 'selling while his value is high' which so many posters here like to preach about when it comes to other players.

As for who will play C? Well, I think that we go out and acquire a faceoff specialist who can play 3C and use him in high leverage situations. We'd have cap space if we moved on from some of these players.

 

[ChilliBilly]

too bad we didnt make the move from Benning / Green earlier; it would have been nice to see where we are in the standings if we had a full year of this group. I voted maybe; 100% depends on the return. Would love to have shots at C Bedard.

 

[NYVanfan]

If we win the trade, yes. But if we lose the trade then no.

If we super duper lose the trade then I'll be upset. If we win by a lot I'll be very happy about it.

I'm 50/50 about a 50/50 trade.

what im worried about here is we may burn trade capital just to clear some of the bloated contracts.
I think there's concensus that realistically this team wont contend for at least 2-3 years, and that's why Miller makes no sense. We'd probably have to overpay to keep him, and even if not, giving him $7-8M into his 30s while we improve is not the best asset management. Max the return, try to land a couple more Hog/Pod types in the draft who can contribute quickly (ideally on the blueline) and build around this <27 core, we could be a lot better fairly quickly..

BB-EP-Pod
Gar-Bo-Hog
whatever

QH
whatever

Demko

even if they had to shed one of Garland or Boeser from above, assuming it's for quality young assets and picks, they could be re-loaded relatively quickly.

In any case I think it's the only option, to build properly, there are no more quick fixes; been 8 years of that crap

 

[Breakers]

He has turned into a pure North South player who cheats more than any player on the roster.

Guy is leaving the zone before his wingers
You see him hanging outside the blue line waiting for recoveries by the D and stretch passes sometimes.

His zone entries are even worse, he gets them and tries toe drag with speed every single time instead of maybe raising his head and looking for his wingers.

he is so predictable right now

 

[Grantham]

I would have to say a big fat NO to trading him. I like him and his leadership qualities. I also like that even though not as skilled as JT, he doesn't pout and have controller disconnected moments.

I do think he needs to drop a little bit of weight, and build more endurance. He turns like a oil tanker when he gets tired and I think the faster Bo from a couple years ago was better.

He has improved defensively, and in the Playoffs (whenever that will be next time) is where a player like him really shines. Just so strong and a bull when he is determined.

Keep Bo here for life

 

[Regress2TheMeme]

What you see is what you'll get. He is not getting any better and right now he is pretty mediocre.

He is a player that has been given front line status on poor teams. Got the benefit of playing the PP although he has, especially recently, not played all that well on it. Defensively he has never been good. In his 8 seasons with the team he has always been a minus player and overall is a -75 during that period. I believe that to be close to the worst minus figure of any NHL player over that period.

Moreover as the League speeds up, the heavy footed Horvat is likely to experience even greater problems.

Saying you know for a fact Miller is gone when his contract ends is incorrect. We may speculate but this remains conjecture. If there is any choice Miller is obviously the one to keep. However, the trading of Horvat should not solely be based on a either/or situation with Miller and Horvat. Just based on his play, his history and his likely decline there is every reason to consider what you can get for Horvat.

I always appreciate your takes, but I disagree that Horvat can't still develop his game further. He is what he is from a physical standpoint. But lots of offensive players are able to round out their game in their late 20s. Horvat has the tools to be a very solid defensive player, he just needs to change his mind set and cardio/compete level. Maybe he'll switch from power lifting to doing yoga and drop a few pounds.

Did the Benning regime really develop anybody? It seems like it was left to the players to just figure it out themselves. Showing Tryamkin videos of Pronger and saying "play like that" was their idea of development. New management bringing in better coaches could lead to some players evolving their game regardless of age.

 

[krutovsdonut]

about the only way i'd be in favour of trading bo is to resolve a dressing room issue, if one exists, and if trading bo is the best/only way to fix it. i can see that the team might have factions so they are trying to figure out the mix. but bo seems pretty low maintenance so even if there is an issue, he might not be the problem.

otherwise, i cannot see any reason to trade him short of a major rebuild. he's exactly the kind of 1b/2c soldier every team wants to win a cup.

 

[theguardianII]

Keep Bo here for life

But what if he wants more than just one slim chance at a cup? Hasn't done his time already?

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Yes. Trade him before the rest of the league catches on to his limitations.

He likely has quite high value around the league especially on his current contract.

 

[Ninjadude]

Aside from 3 or 4 players being untouchable, im totally open with anyone else on this team being traded if the price is right. All options need to be explored and if it can make your team better...you have to take it. Yes there may be some risks if you go for younger blue chip talent, but sometimes you have to roll the dice!

 

[Vancouver_2010]

No, we need players like horvat in the post-season. Miller on the other hand is in his prime and really cap friendly, he will get the return that we want.

 

[Icebreakers]

You can trade him if you want, but you would have to keep Miller. Whose going to take face offs? Boeser?

 

[Peen]

He has turned into a pure North South player

That sounds like a Rutherford type of player

 

[sting101]

I’ve stated my views on this player and this idea for a while so won’t repeat myself. Another reason to move him though would be to give the team a new identity and turn the page as an organization - he is intimately connected to the Benning era due to timing and the fact Benning foolishly decided to name him captain.

who would you have named?