News Article: Are the Senators better under Boucher?

[bert]

I'd love to see a source on that.

Did you miss Meknyks interview when he asked if Boudreau walked on water? Or how about when the sens added the 2nd because NYR ate Brassards bonus? What about when San Jose retained 250 k of Wingles salary and SJ took Stortini?

It was a money issue, as well as term. Either way both Boucher and Boudreau have been great this season.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Did you miss Meknyks interview when he asked if Boudreau walked on water? Or how about when the sens added the 2nd because NYR ate Brassards bonus? What about when San Jose retained 250 k of Wingles salary and SJ took Stortini?

It was a money issue, as well as term. Either way both Boucher and Boudreau have been great this season.

It might be true but i dont understand why people have a hard time believing Boudreau chose Minnesota over Ottawa. To me that seems perfectly realistic too

 

[bert]

It might be true but i dont understand why people have a hard time believing Boudreau chose Minnesota over Ottawa. To me that seems perfectly realistic too

I agree with that as well but apparently the sens didnt make an offer either. Irregardless i think everyone's happy at the end if the day.

 

[jason2020]

Did you miss Meknyks interview when he asked if Boudreau walked on water? Or how about when the sens added the 2nd because NYR ate Brassards bonus? What about when San Jose retained 250 k of Wingles salary and SJ took Stortini?

It was a money issue, as well as term. Either way both Boucher and Boudreau have been great this season.

It sounds more and more like San Jose wanted Stortini as there short handed on the farm as for they took % of the salary sure and many other teams do that as well example Dion would be a Redwing if the Leafs had taken 25% of his pay.

 

[JD1]

It might be true but i dont understand why people have a hard time believing Boudreau chose Minnesota over Ottawa. To me that seems perfectly realistic too

did he though? I've heard Dorion say a couple of times that Boucher was the guy he wanted. The next post down from yours says we didn't make Boudreau an offer. Why would we have made him an offer if Dorion wanted Boucher? And maybe Boudreau knew that he wasn't the first choice and jumped at an offer from Minny not wanting to be left without a chair.

IDK - there's been a lot that's been said about this but I can flip your sentence around

i don't understand why people have a hard time believing Dorion chose Boucher over Boudreau

another thing I don't really understand is Dorion has said a couple of things publicly now and yet there is a lot of cynicism about some of his decisions / moves and people not believing the things he has said publicly. Dorion came up under Murray. Love him or hate him, Murray was a genuine person and he didn't have a dishonest bone in his body. I have a hard time believing that if Dorion was a serial liar that Murray would have been comfortable with him as a protégé.

 

[Viletho]

Oh snap!

I don't know, I found footage of Micklebot calling out JD earlier today.

Lolll so Mickle is John Cena?!? He will stay here at the top for a long long time !! Which is not a bad thing

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

did he though? I've heard Dorion say a couple of times that Boucher was the guy he wanted. The next post down from yours says we didn't make Boudreau an offer. Why would we have made him an offer if Dorion wanted Boucher? And maybe Boudreau knew that he wasn't the first choice and jumped at an offer from Minny not wanting to be left without a chair.

IDK - there's been a lot that's been said about this but I can flip your sentence around

i don't understand why people have a hard time believing Dorion chose Boucher over Boudreau

another thing I don't really understand is Dorion has said a couple of things publicly now and yet there is a lot of cynicism about some of his decisions / moves and people not believing the things he has said publicly. Dorion came up under Murray. Love him or hate him, Murray was a genuine person and he didn't have a dishonest bone in his body. I have a hard time believing that if Dorion was a serial liar that Murray would have been comfortable with him as a protégé.

http://news.nationalpost.com/sports...accepts-head-coaching-job-with-minnesota-wild

This post media article suggest ottawa offered him a 3 year contract with around the same dollars as his minnesota contract

It would be kinda stupid to not say after you hired Boucher that he was your choice all along too. Saying that i can believe the sens did choose Boucher. It just seems like theres a lot of conflicting info out there


From Ian Mendes

Of course, there were other candidates – most notably, Bruce Boudreau, who had been recently fired by the Anaheim Ducks. Boudreau and Dorion met for nearly six hours on Friday and speculation ramped up on the weekend that the Senators had made a contract offer to Boudreau. When Boudreau opted to sign with the Minnesota Wild, the optics looked pretty bad for the Senators, as one report suggested Ottawa was not willing to give Boudreau a four-year contract offer.

 

[JD1]

http://news.nationalpost.com/sports...accepts-head-coaching-job-with-minnesota-wild

This post media article suggest ottawa offered him a 3 year contract with around the same dollars as his minnesota contract

It would be kinda stupid to not say after you hired Boucher that he was your choice all along too. Saying that i can believe the sens did choose Boucher. It just seems like theres a lot of conflicting info out there


From Ian Mendes

so that news article is Garrioch who is a bit of a rumour monger.

Here's an article in the Sun when Boucher was hired. Quoting from it

Before anybody could leave the room at the Canadian Tire Centre, the Senators GM wanted to make it abundantly clear Guy Boucher was his No. 1 choice as the club’s coach.

While there was plenty of speculation on the weekend that Bruce Boudreau had been offered the Ottawa post before accepting a four-year deal with the Minnesota Wild, Dorion told reporters he did talk contract with all three finalists but Boucher was always the top selection.

When the interview process wrapped up Saturday morning with a telephone interview with former Calgary coach Bob Hartley (because of logistics), Dorion and assistant Randy Lee wrote their top selections down on a piece of paper and both had Boucher’s name.

article
http://www.ottawasun.com/2016/05/09/boucher-was-dorions-top-pick-to-fill-senators-coaching-vacancy

so it seems he talked contract with a couple of people but may not have arrived at the point of actually making an offer. That's my read of it. The article makes no mention of an offer and a decline on Boudreau's end. So it's either that or Dorion is a serial liar.

 

[trentmccleary]

If you told me in September that Ottawa would be 6th in the Eastern Conference... I'd have said "of course they are; they've got good offensive depth with Stone, Turris, Hoffman, Ryan, Brassard, MacArthur and Zack Smith as an occasional fill-in. Plus, the best offensive d-man in the league fronting what is now a solid top-4. Backstopped by Ottawa's best #1 goalie in Anderson".

If in September, you didn't tell me the ranking... but told me that:
- MacArthur-Brassard-Ryan would combine for 44 points through 47 games.
- Anderson would have missed half the season.
- Karlsson was 12 points back of Brent Burns.
- Ceci was struggling for most of the first half.
- That Ottawa dropped from 9th to 18th in scoring.

I would have asked you "So, how good do you think Nolan Patrick is going to be?"

 

[Samsquanch]

I seriously thought we had put this whole debacle to bed already guys.....Boudreau never got a formal offer from the Senators.....see below, he admits it himself.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/n...option-with-youth--veteran-mix-221503112.html

Boudreau felt that he jived better with the Minny GM. Our GM felt he jived better with Boucher (shocker I know).

Let's let it go already.....

 

[Micklebot]

Did you miss Meknyks interview when he asked if Boudreau walked on water? Or how about when the sens added the 2nd because NYR ate Brassards bonus? What about when San Jose retained 250 k of Wingles salary and SJ took Stortini?

It was a money issue, as well as term. Either way both Boucher and Boudreau have been great this season.

So, would you be happier if we just gave a 7th Rd pick for wingels and no salary was retained?

I don't get how adding unwanted contracts and getting SJ to retain can't just be seen as a good move and instead has to fuel budget conspiracies

SJ could not trade Wingels for more and getting the to retain and take healthy scratch Stortini means we have more flexibility down the road. That's all there is to the story. If budget was so tight that we needed to retain or it wouldn't have happened then we probably don't parachute in a guy that is undoubtedly an expensive commodity to be the new president.

 

[aragorn]

I think Dorion wanted Boucher from the get go & went through the interview process just so people wouldn't say he played a favourite or didn't do his homework or look at all the options. I think they were friends going back to their Montreal days, they knew each other well, both are francophones & both are around the same age. I think Boucher was Dorion's primary candidate from the very beginning, in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if BM hadn't stepped down, Dorion wouldn't have pushed BM to hire him.

Dorion has been around hockey his whole life, knows a lot of hockey people, coaches included & has been preparing for the GM job probably ever since TM left & knew exactly what he would do if & when he was offered the GM job & followed through with his plan at the first opportunity, which was at the end of last yr.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

I think Dorion wanted Boucher from the get go & went through the interview process just so people wouldn't say he played a favourite or didn't do his homework or look at all the options. I think they were friends going back to their Montreal days, they knew each other well, both are francophones & both are around the same age. I think Boucher was Dorion's primary candidate from the very beginning, in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if BM hadn't stepped down, Dorion wouldn't have pushed BM to hire him.

Dorion has been around hockey his whole life, knows a lot of hockey people, coaches included & has been preparing for the GM job probably ever since TM left & knew exactly what he would do if & when he was offered the GM job & followed through with his plan at the first opportunity, which was at the end of last yr.

This is exactly how rumors start to become true. What you have written above is the exact opposite of what happened.

 

[JD1]

This is exactly how rumors start to become true. What you have written above is the exact opposite of what happened.

really?

so what happened then?

 

[Sens1Canes2]

really?

so what happened then?

Which part? The one where the poster assumes because they both speak French that they've known each other forever? We can start there if you like.

 

[bert]

So, would you be happier if we just gave a 7th Rd pick for wingels and no salary was retained?

I don't get how adding unwanted contracts and getting SJ to retain can't just be seen as a good move and instead has to fuel budget conspiracies

SJ could not trade Wingels for more and getting the to retain and take healthy scratch Stortini means we have more flexibility down the road. That's all there is to the story. If budget was so tight that we needed to retain or it wouldn't have happened then we probably don't parachute in a guy that is undoubtedly an expensive commodity to be the new president.

Its not a conspiracy. Its a fact.

The 2nd in the Brassard deal was because they ate his contract prior to the deal. These are not conspiracies thats what happened.

 

[Micklebot]

Its not a conspiracy. Its a fact.

The 2nd in the Brassard deal was because they ate his contract prior to the deal. These are not conspiracies thats what happened.

There are some facts out there, and there is a lot of conjecture. When you start calling conjecture a fact, it's a conspiracy theory.

 

[JD1]

Which part? The one where the poster assumes because they both speak French that they've known each other forever? We can start there if you like.

which part? The guy posts what he thinks happened. You replied this is how rumours start and what he posted is the opposite of what happened.

So, let's hear it then. You are implying you know exactly how this went down. What say you?

 

[JD1]

Its not a conspiracy. Its a fact.

The 2nd in the Brassard deal was because they ate his contract prior to the deal. These are not conspiracies thats what happened.

Why is that a fact? Did Dorion say that? Did the NYR's say that? Who publicly said that which would make it a fact?

I know what I have read about how that trade went down and based on what's been publicly said what you just posted is a fantasy.

 

[Micklebot]

Why is that a fact? Did Dorion say that? Did the NYR's say that? Who publicly said that which would make it a fact?

I know what I have read about how that trade went down and based on what's been publicly said what you just posted is a fantasy.

Pretty sure he's referring to the Brooks article in which he states sources informed him that the NYR agreed to pay the bonus only if the 2nd was included.

Now, whether you choose to consider anything from a Brooks article as fact is up to you, he's got a questionable reputation, but doesn't tend to historically outright make up stuff like this.

That said, the timing still seems odd, as if there was a deal in place that was just pending the payment of the bonus, it probably would have been finalized right after payment, which I think was 1 Jul, instead of almost 3 weeks later.

There is certainly value to having had NYR pay the signing bonus, and it would be naïve to think there wouldn't be some sort of asset moved to offset that. It possible that we always intended to 'buy' 2 mil with a 2nd rd pick, or it could be that that cost was negotiated after the bonus was paid because they just hadn't come to terms on the trade prior to it being paid. Brooks certainly implied that it was negotiated in advance, but we're dealing with 2nd hand (at best) information here. We don't know how close Brooks' source was to the negotiation, so there's a good chance of some conjecture going on here.

 

[bert]

There are some facts out there, and there is a lot of conjecture. When you start calling conjecture a fact, it's a conspiracy theory.

Not if I have a direct source. Take it for what you want your call. Its pretty obvious if you look at it objectively.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

which part? The guy posts what he thinks happened. You replied this is how rumours start and what he posted is the opposite of what happened.

So, let's hear it then. You are implying you know exactly how this went down. What say you?

Dorion met Boucher for the first time when he was coaching junior. The rest of their interactions through the years were restricted to 10 second "hello, how are you doing, good to see you" conversations.

So, this was not Dorion's "plan" as he ascended into the GM position. He had a list of candidates, like he publicly stated, and he interviewed them. Was he blown away by Boucher the first time he interviewed him? Yes. And I think we've seen lots of reasons why. But he did interview the rest of his candidates. He waited until Yeo came back from the World Championships. Wanted to be thorough.

Implying that this was a plan hatched while Dorion was scouting or director of PP is simply not true. At all.

 

[JD1]

Dorion met Boucher for the first time when he was coaching junior. The rest of their interactions through the years were restricted to 10 second "hello, how are you doing, good to see you" conversations.

So, this was not Dorion's "plan" as he ascended into the GM position. He had a list of candidates, like he publicly stated, and he interviewed them. Was he blown away by Boucher the first time he interviewed him? Yes. And I think we've seen lots of reasons why. But he did interview the rest of his candidates. He waited until Yeo came back from the World Championships. Wanted to be thorough.

Implying that this was a plan hatched while Dorion was scouting or director of PP is simply not true. At all.

fair enough. that's the way I see it as well.

 

[JD1]

Pretty sure he's referring to the Brooks article in which he states sources informed him that the NYR agreed to pay the bonus only if the 2nd was included.

Now, whether you choose to consider anything from a Brooks article as fact is up to you, he's got a questionable reputation, but doesn't tend to historically outright make up stuff like this.

That said, the timing still seems odd, as if there was a deal in place that was just pending the payment of the bonus, it probably would have been finalized right after payment, which I think was 1 Jul, instead of almost 3 weeks later.

There is certainly value to having had NYR pay the signing bonus, and it would be naïve to think there wouldn't be some sort of asset moved to offset that. It possible that we always intended to 'buy' 2 mil with a 2nd rd pick, or it could be that that cost was negotiated after the bonus was paid because they just hadn't come to terms on the trade prior to it being paid. Brooks certainly implied that it was negotiated in advance, but we're dealing with 2nd hand (at best) information here. We don't know how close Brooks' source was to the negotiation, so there's a good chance of some conjecture going on here.

here's what Dorion said about the deal

http://www.silversevensens.com/2016...n-speaks-acquiring-brassard-trading-zibanejad

I don't buy in to the theory that the 2nd was a result of NYR paying the bonus. Neither side has said that was the way it went down. Dorion has said that Brassard was viewed by both sides as the better player and it isn't hard to believe that over 3 years Mika was going to make more money factoring in his new contract. How do you reconcile paying a lesser player more money? Something had to give. Dorion even stated when talks started the ask was higher. If when talks started the ask was higher, and then NYR paid the bonus, don't you think that would make the ask go up? Not down?

Brooks is notorious for making stuff up. Torts chewing him out all the time was classic stuff. I don't put any stock in anything Brooks said, I'd probably look at it and say Brooks article is nothing more than trying to make the Rangers look good

 

[bert]

here's what Dorion said about the deal

http://www.silversevensens.com/2016...n-speaks-acquiring-brassard-trading-zibanejad

I don't buy in to the theory that the 2nd was a result of NYR paying the bonus. Neither side has said that was the way it went down. Dorion has said that Brassard was viewed by both sides as the better player and it isn't hard to believe that over 3 years Mika was going to make more money factoring in his new contract. How do you reconcile paying a lesser player more money? Something had to give. Dorion even stated when talks started the ask was higher. If when talks started the ask was higher, and then NYR paid the bonus, don't you think that would make the ask go up? Not down?

Brooks is notorious for making stuff up. Torts chewing him out all the time was classic stuff. I don't put any stock in anything Brooks said, I'd probably look at it and say Brooks article is nothing more than trying to make the Rangers look good

Clearly the sens arent going to come out and say we sold our 2nd round pick for x amount of dollars... Thats a marketing nighmare.

Everyone has an angle or a way they want to interpret what happened, your last sentence about brooks proves that. Which is fine we can all look at this from a perspective of what we are being sold and told as fans because they want us to fill the seats. However if you take a step back and look at the consistencies of the deals the sens have made recently they are all about cost cutting and forfeiting assets.