Are the Leafs Closer to End of Rebuild than we Think?

[ACC1224]

Had the Leafs decided on doing a 5-year plan they could have had:

(Because of the Kessel trade i will post the #1 pick through who we could have drafted since without Kessel our pick would have probably been lower)

2010: Taylor Hall - Tyler Seguin
2011: Ryan Nugent Hopkins - Dougie Hamilton
2012: Nail Yakupov - Morgan Rielly
2013: Nathan MacKinnon - Fredrick Gauthier
2014: Aaron Ekblad - William Nylander

Obviously part of this would have been hitting on all the right players but if the Leafs just had the opportunity to select someone here the future would be a whole lot closer.

Classic stuff right here.

 

[deletethis]

What!?!? Burke said it was a playoff team when he left

Burke said a lot of stuff, most of it hollow declarations, cliches and platitudes packaged up with quasi-conviction and wit.

 

[Leaf Lander]

Better than what? He was completely right, you don't need 5 years to rebuild.

It depends on what ypur goal is During the rebuild

Soem fans just want a hard working team like what we got now


Some fans have endured , yrs of losing and t do nk mjnd waiting for few yrs whiile the Leafs tank . Add great core peices that we hope will be a cup winner Soem day. 3 year tanking to get a cup.


Vs win now n win nothing

Makes the latter leaf fans loook foolish imo

 

[ULF_55]

Burke said a lot of stuff, most of it hollow declarations, cliches and platitudes packaged up with quasi-conviction and wit.

Well he had a lot of supporters here.

We don't need debate the results.

Leafs are 27th. in the league today after cashing in all the efforts Burke put in. Perhaps a good thing his 26th. place team has a different GM calling the shots today.

It does not appear the Leafs are closer to the end than we think but they should be closer otherwise they aren't making any progress.

 

[SprDaVE]

Leafs have as much as 5 games in hand over some teams. They are 7 points out of a playoff spot (I think? Don't have it infront of me) with 3 games in hand. It's a little deceiving to say they are 27th in the league when they could be as close as a handful of points out of a playoff spot when they catch up in games.

The Sharks are the only other team to have played 40 games.

Not saying they won'be just as bad when they make up games but don't be surprised if they climb up a bit after they stop having 4-5 days breaks between games.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Next 5 games:
Jackets
Blackhawks
Bruins
Flyers
Hurricanes

I could see three W's there

 

[Durrr]

Scorched earth BTW is only the words of Cathal Kelly not actually anything Shanahan was quoted as saying.




http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...leafs-plan-wins-mlse-support/article22938348/

Yeah, this is complete trash. I'm sure the board agreed to whatever it takes, it jut simply will not take that much to get this franchise in a respectable competitive form.

Imo the reason we are actually further along the rebuild curve then pundits would have you believe is because of Gardiner and Rielly. The reason teams like Edmonton, Colorado and Buffallo exist in the state that they do is because they don't have the core defense to back up the raw forward talent.

Defense takes longer to develop and the Leafs have done a pretty decent job so far of getting 2 top 4 (minimum) d-men that can be here long term. Look at all those teams having a hard time rebuilding through the draft, and most (if not all) have the lack of high end defense prospects on the roster. Leafs are going to have extremely talented forwards coming up through the development process just like those teams, yet they will have stability on the back end.

 

[egd27]

Leafs have as much as 5 games in hand over some teams. They are 7 points out of a playoff spot (I think? Don't have it infront of me) with 3 games in hand. It's a little deceiving to say they are 27th in the league when they could be as close as a handful of points out of a playoff spot when they catch up in games.

The Sharks are the only other team to have played 40 games.

Not saying they won'be just as bad when they make up games but don't be surprised if they climb up a bit after they stop having 4-5 days breaks between games.

Here's the current playoff standings by winning/points %

ATLANTIC | GP | W | L | OTL | PTS | %
*FLORIDA | 43 | 26 | 12 | 5 | 57 | 0.663
*DETROIT | 43 | 22 | 14 | 7 | 51 | 0.593
*BOSTON | 41 | 21 | 15 | 5 | 47 | 0.573
METRO | | | | | |
*WASHINGTON | 42 | 32 | 7 | 3 | 67 | 0.798
*NY RANGERS | 42 | 23 | 14 | 5 | 51 | 0.607
*NY ISLANDERS | 42 | 22 | 15 | 5 | 49 | 0.583
WILD CARD | | | | | |
*MONTRÉAL | 43 | 23 | 17 | 3 | 49 | 0.570
*PITTSBURGH | 41 | 20 | 16 | 5 | 45 | 0.549
OUT | | | | | |
*TAMPA BAY | 42 | 21 | 17 | 4 | 46 | 0.548
*NEW JERSEY | 43 | 21 | 17 | 5 | 47 | 0.547
*PHILADELPHIA | 40 | 18 | 15 | 7 | 43 | 0.538
*OTTAWA | 43 | 20 | 17 | 6 | 46 | 0.535
*CAROLINA | 43 | 18 | 18 | 7 | 43 | 0.500
*TORONTO | 40 | 16 | 17 | 7 | 39 | 0.488
*BUFFALO | 42 | 16 | 22 | 4 | 36 | 0.429
*COLUMBUS | 43 | 15 | 24 | 4 | 34 | 0.395

 

[Joey Hoser]

It depends on what ypur goal is During the rebuild

Soem fans just want a hard working team like what we got now


Some fans have endured , yrs of losing and t do nk mjnd waiting for few yrs whiile the Leafs tank . Add great core peices that we hope will be a cup winner Soem day. 3 year tanking to get a cup.


Vs win now n win nothing

Makes the latter leaf fans loook foolish imo

While I'm in the for the long haul as well, can you not make this point without trying to say that if people don't agree with your plan, that means they don't want to win a cup? That's absurd.

 

[zeke]

What more do people expect, really?

- they traded away their one true 1st line talent
- the only guys they've kept are guys you guys think suck and should only help the tank, not hurt it
- the only guys they've added have been borderline nhl retreads
- they are clearly distributing ice time based on trying to up the trade value of the vets
- they aren't playing any of their top kids

what more do you want?

you guys already think the roster is the least talented in hockey, don't you? do you expect them to ice a roster of all ahl vets?

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Better than what? He was completely right, you don't need 5 years to rebuild.

Sure, Burke was really able to prove that theory too - he nailed it. Then he lands in Calgary and says the only way to build is through the draft - confirmation?

Those LA & Chicago Cup teams must have been slow pokes too I guess?

 

[ShaneFalco]

What more do people expect, really?

- they traded away their one true 1st line talent
- the only guys they've kept are guys you guys think suck and should only help the tank, not hurt it
- the only guys they've added have been borderline nhl retreads
- they are clearly distributing ice time based on trying to up the trade value of the vets
- they aren't playing any of their top kids

what more do you want?

you guys already think the roster is the least talented in hockey, don't you? do you expect them to ice a roster of all ahl vets?

If the rumours were true they were offered a 2nd for Bozak. I would have been all over that
And they apparently had an offer for Phaneuf. Who knows for sure really.
But realistically has Phaenuf's play helped increase his trade value? I'd say at his salary, no. He's basically proven he can't play #1 dman minutes without breaking down towards the end of the year. it seemed like everyone knew he wasn't a #1 guy except Burke and Nonis

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Yeah, this is complete trash. I'm sure the board agreed to whatever it takes, it jut simply will not take that much to get this franchise in a respectable competitive form.

Imo the reason we are actually further along the rebuild curve then pundits would have you believe is because of Gardiner and Rielly. The reason teams like Edmonton, Colorado and Buffallo exist in the state that they do is because they don't have the core defense to back up the raw forward talent.

Defense takes longer to develop and the Leafs have done a pretty decent job so far of getting 2 top 4 (minimum) d-men that can be here long term. Look at all those teams having a hard time rebuilding through the draft, and most (if not all) have the lack of high end defense prospects on the roster. Leafs are going to have extremely talented forwards coming up through the development process just like those teams, yet they will have stability on the back end.

Phaneuf needs to be added into that category. I view him as our very valuable veteran during the rebuild like Campbell has been to Florida or Visnovsky was to the Islanders.

I strongly believe you need to have that solid D foundation in place but I still think we're further behind the Oilers and Sabres after last draft.

If anything the Oilers, Sabres and Avs show that even if after you get a top talent it probably still takes another few years to be a contender. Chicago also sucked the year after drafting Kane. LA sucked the year after drafting Doughty.

However, Oilers & Sabres have been probably the two hardest hit teams by injuries. It'd be very naive to think that hasn't played a major factor in their place in the standings this year.

Oilers have missed McDavid for over half the season. Pouliot, Eberle, Klefbom, Scultz, Yakupov have also all missed significant time.

Sabres have missed their top goaltender all season + two of their regular Dmen in Bogosian + Pysyk have missed around half the season.

Avs: we have a huge budget advantage over. They've also got Johnson, Barrie and brought in Beauchemin in the off-season so any issues with that group has as much to do with coaching. They are also in 8th spot as of today.

 

[ULF_55]

Here's the current playoff standings by winning/points %

ATLANTIC | GP | W | L | OTL | PTS | %
*FLORIDA | 43 | 26 | 12 | 5 | 57 | 0.663
*DETROIT | 43 | 22 | 14 | 7 | 51 | 0.593
*BOSTON | 41 | 21 | 15 | 5 | 47 | 0.573
METRO | | | | | |
*WASHINGTON | 42 | 32 | 7 | 3 | 67 | 0.798
*NY RANGERS | 42 | 23 | 14 | 5 | 51 | 0.607
*NY ISLANDERS | 42 | 22 | 15 | 5 | 49 | 0.583
WILD CARD | | | | | |
*MONTRÉAL | 43 | 23 | 17 | 3 | 49 | 0.570
*PITTSBURGH | 41 | 20 | 16 | 5 | 45 | 0.549
OUT | | | | | |
*TAMPA BAY | 42 | 21 | 17 | 4 | 46 | 0.548
*NEW JERSEY | 43 | 21 | 17 | 5 | 47 | 0.547
*PHILADELPHIA | 40 | 18 | 15 | 7 | 43 | 0.538
*OTTAWA | 43 | 20 | 17 | 6 | 46 | 0.535
*CAROLINA | 43 | 18 | 18 | 7 | 43 | 0.500
*TORONTO | 40 | 16 | 17 | 7 | 39 | 0.488
*BUFFALO | 42 | 16 | 22 | 4 | 36 | 0.429
*COLUMBUS | 43 | 15 | 24 | 4 | 34 | 0.395

And PPG

Standings|Team|Games|Wins|Loss|OTL|Points|PPG
1|*Washington|42|32|7|3|67|1.595
2|*Dallas|44|29|11|4|62|1.409
4|*Los Angeles|42|27|12|3|57|1.357
5|*Florida|43|26|12|5|57|1.326
3|*Chicago|44|27|13|4|58|1.318
7|*Minnesota|42|22|12|8|52|1.238
6|*St. Louis|45|24|14|7|55|1.222
8|*NY Rangers|42|23|14|5|51|1.214
9|*Detroit|43|22|14|7|51|1.186
10|*NY Islanders|42|22|15|5|49|1.167
12|*Boston|41|21|15|5|47|1.146
11|*Montréal|43|23|17|3|49|1.140
14|*Arizona|41|21|16|4|46|1.122
17|*Pittsburgh|41|20|16|5|45|1.098
15|*Tampa Bay|42|21|17|4|46|1.095
13|*New Jersey|43|21|17|5|47|1.093
21|*Philadelphia|40|18|15|7|43|1.075
18|*Nashville|42|19|16|7|45|1.071
16|*Ottawa|43|20|17|6|46|1.070
23|*San Jose|40|20|18|2|42|1.050
19|*Colorado|43|21|19|3|45|1.047
20|*Vancouver|43|17|16|10|44|1.023
22|*Carolina|43|18|18|7|43|1.000
24|*Anaheim|41|17|17|7|41|1.000
25|*Winnipeg|42|19|20|3|41|0.976
26|*Calgary|41|19|20|2|40|0.976
27|*Toronto|40|16|17|7|39|0.975
28|*Edmonton|43|17|23|3|37|0.860
29|*Buffalo|42|16|22|4|36|0.857
30|*Columbus|43|15|24|4|34|0.791

 

[Northern Dancer]

What more do people expect, really?

- they traded away their one true 1st line talent
- the only guys they've kept are guys you guys think suck and should only help the tank, not hurt it
- the only guys they've added have been borderline nhl retreads
- they are clearly distributing ice time based on trying to up the trade value of the vets
- they aren't playing any of their top kids

what more do you want?

you guys already think the roster is the least talented in hockey, don't you? do you expect them to ice a roster of all ahl vets?

If the rumours were true they were offered a 2nd for Bozak. I would have been all over that
And they apparently had an offer for Phaneuf. Who knows for sure really.
But realistically has Phaenuf's play helped increase his trade value? I'd say at his salary, no. He's basically proven he can't play #1 dman minutes without breaking down towards the end of the year. it seemed like everyone knew he wasn't a #1 guy except Burke and Nonis

I would think both Bozak and Phaneuf have much better trade appeal than after last years dreadful performance whereas if they had of kept Kessel his value would be even lower than what Pittsburgh gave up.

Thank God Shanahan didn't take your advice.

 

[BlueBaron]

Had the Leafs decided on doing a 5-year plan they could have had:

(Because of the Kessel trade i will post the #1 pick through who we could have drafted since without Kessel our pick would have probably been lower)

2010: Taylor Hall - Tyler Seguin
2011: Ryan Nugent Hopkins - Dougie Hamilton
2012: Nail Yakupov - Morgan Rielly
2013: Nathan MacKinnon - Fredrick Gauthier
2014: Aaron Ekblad - William Nylander

Obviously part of this would have been hitting on all the right players but if the Leafs just had the opportunity to select someone here the future would be a whole lot closer.

Except they wouldn't have because we would not have had Kessel and so our draft position could have been different. They may have done better without a star ( team rally against all odds) or they may have been worse and drafted higher still. Even then you have no idea how they would have picked beyond the obvious like Seguin.

So in short, your statement is flawed.

 

[hockeywiz542]

According to Pierre LeBrun, the master plan is coming together for the Toronto Maple Leafs.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/14575296/nhl-master-plan-coming-together-toronto-maple-leafs

The hirings of GM Lou Lamoriello and head coach Mike Babcock were the finishing touches on Brendan Shanahan's massive overhaul of the front office the past few years, and even the most cynical of cynics has to admit the change is apparent with this hockey team.

"We went into this season understanding that there could be a bit of a struggle here,'' team president Shanahan said in a phone interview Thursday. "We traded away our leading goal scorer. We were bringing in a whole new staff, we signed a lot of players to one-year deals. I guess in some ways myself and Mike prepared the hockey market here that it was unrealistic to expect quick fixes or a quick turnaround; Mike even promised 'pain.'

"But, it was always my belief that so long as we were marching in the right direction, that the Toronto fans and the Toronto media and the Toronto ownership are not given enough credit for knowing when a team is going the right way and when they're not."

"So, in that sense, while we look at the standings and we're reminded we're certainly not where we ultimately want to be, I'm really pleased with the work effort and really pleased that we've brought in, in the management staff and coaching staff, how they've meshed with other people here, and how the players have responded to what's been asked of them.''

The eye-popping, eight-year, $50 million contract that lured Babcock to Toronto last offseason is looking like a wise investment in the early stages. Opposing teams talk about the Leafs being a hard team to play against. When is the last time you heard that?

"I see structure and compete," Shanahan said of Babcock's impact. "And I see players that are starting to understand and believe that when you have structure and you have a lot of compete to your game and there's someone who is unyielding in his expectations to keep people accountable, that it makes players feel safer and it makes the game they're playing more enjoyable.''

"Well, we're not taking bows yet," cautioned Shanahan. "We're just at the very start of this process. I'm pleased with what the players are doing on the ice, I'm pleased with the way that they're behaving off the ice.''

"The parts of an organization that are so important, like the guts of an organization that are so important that maybe they don't get talked about or noticed by the public as much, our development staff and our scouting staff, and the Marlies as well, all of them have worked so seamlessly well together," said Shanahan. "The communication between the Leafs, our management, up and down throughout the organization, that to me is something that I noticed and hope it has an impact on the team down the road.''

 

[hockeywiz542]

how would ratings improve if the leafs were a winning team?

Twenty per cent. We did the analysis. Leaf ratings on saturday nights are down 20 per cent and overall saturday night is down 15 to 20 per cent. If the leafs were winning, their ratings would be up 20 per cent. If they were clearly a playoff team, it would be 30 or 40 per cent. They’re going to be .500 or better next season, and hopefully we’ll see some increase in the ratings.

Do you think rogers and bell — as co-owners of the leafs — would interfere with brendan shanahan’s rebuilding program, to try to speed it up, for ratings purposes?

I don’t think the right word is interference. There’s pressure. I believe he is doing the right thing. I think he and the team and us all need to look at the messaging. I don’t think saying there’s four or five years of pain is necessarily the messaging we want. It’s: ‘there’s a plan. There’s progress. There’s going to be legitimate stars on this team over the next number of years that you’ll be able to watch as they progress, whether that’s leo komarov, (william) nylander, or mitch marner.’

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

We're nearer to the beginning than we are closer to the end!

 

[Trapper]

We're nearer to the beginning than we are closer to the end!

If you have to ask, you're not.

 

[Gabriel426]

To me, the end is being a true contender, like whenever they play, people will say, "Yeah, I can see the Leafs winning the Cup."
MGT wise, they are as good if not better than any other teams with Babs, Lou, Hunter, Shanny and others.
Finance wise, the Leafs is second to none. Afterall, they have a food department for their players. What I am trying to say is that they won't cheap out on stuff.
The Leafs just need top notch talented players to become contender. That's the hard part bc they are not available at all, even if the Leafs can draft 1st overall for the next 5 yrs, it is not 100% that those 5 will indeed become Toews, Kane, Keith, Price and Drew.

 

[Moncherry]

As someone who would have adored it if they made the playoffs, I'm now hoping for #1 overall. I've become indifferent to them losing and while the prospect pool is looking good they just need at least one more elite piece to push them over the edge. Imagine how exciting next season would be with Matthews, Marner and Nylander all beginning their rookie seasons.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

It depends on what ypur goal is During the rebuild

Soem fans just want a hard working team like what we got now


Some fans have endured , yrs of losing and t do nk mjnd waiting for few yrs whiile the Leafs tank . Add great core peices that we hope will be a cup winner Soem day. 3 year tanking to get a cup.


Vs win now n win nothing

Makes the latter leaf fans loook foolish imo

Although this might be a little over the top, I completely ageee. I don't understand fans who want the team to win right now. Not when we're this close to securing a top 5 pick this draft. It's nice to see Babs turn this team into a hard working team. But we have to keep the end goal in sight. We want to be the Chicago of the league soon not just some bubble team that works hard.

I'll take Matthews or one of the Finns over any sort of playoff run not including a Stanley cup any day of the week.

 

[Stats01]

We're closer to the beginning than the end folks. Just the reality of the situation. The Hawks destroyed the Habs they've won 11 straight, we battled them hard but just too much skill. That's a contender, look at our group and compare to theirs and tell me we're closer to the end. We need another top pick (actually a few would be nice) and we need to develop our young kids, get them on this team...now they aren't just going to start going all globetrotters on teams right away so it will take probably a whole year to get them used to NHL speed as a group. Now add in the years to go before our young core are together, add in the fact we need a good supporting cast as well. And probably more depth on the back-end and we are far from being where we want to be. It's going to be another 3-4 years at least before we're even in the discussion of contending, if not longer. This is going to be a long process guys.

Seems like some of us on here are just looking at our kids like Marner and Kapanen, Nylander and thinking about raindrops and lollipops. You realize it's going to take them a while to be dominant players in the NHL. I wouldn't expect them to just show up in the NHL and start pounding teams. First is about getting them NHL ready that could take years to do. Then it's about getting them adapted to the NHL grind, that could take a whole year. Then we have to start progressing towards the playoffs that could be another year. Then we can start talking about going for it and getting better, moving picks and prospects out to help them out for our Cup window.

Outside of a few kids like Nylander and Marner and possibly Matthews/Puju/Laine making the team I would expect a similar season next year and another top pick.

 

[Mess]

This recent 5 game losing streak being outscored 16-5 has likely re-adjusted some lines of thinking that the Leafs are not closer to the end but still closer to the beginning of this rebuild process. A short winning streak tends to cloud things in hopes that things are moving along sooner than later.

However Leafs sit with 39 points after the mid point and now just a single point out of 30th and last overall.

There isn't a lot of injuries (outside of JVR recent one) and not a lot of help on the farm ready to step in and make a difference outside of Nylander, who is dealing with his own health concerns.