Are the Habs closer to being a contender or a bubble team?

[The Gr8 Dane]

Sure the team is worst than last year but we don't even make the loffs in a non covid year last year imo. I would gladly sacrifice Danault and Weber going forward (would have been my plan anyways) in exchange for the run we just had. Seriously are you guys really mad/sad we are going to lose Weber/Danault after crying about how shit we have been since aquiring Weber like 5 years ago. The future is drawing near not losing sleep over danault and Weber (I still have massive respect for both of their game)

 

[jfhabs]

Close to both imo. We have the scoring now, but are missing big pieces on the blueline. We need more than one puck mover. If we don't get it, that defense is gonna be even more leaky, especially against the rush. However we were turning the puck over left and right last year and made it to the finals somehow.

True. To me, it will depend on Romanov and KK 's progressions. If both exceed expectations we might very well be contender as soon as next year. If they stay the same we are a bubble team and if they progress a little then we're in between.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Ottawa, nope no chance. Pittsburg I’m actually doubtful of, same as Florida and Washington.

I think from your list Tampa/Toronto/Boston/Carolina/NYI should all finish ahead of us. I can’t give you the others though. They are all as equally flawed as us.

Agreed. Pretending that other teams have no flaws and we have them is false. Habs should be in the mix but we got lots of work to do to get in. Every season is different and teams are in different directions. Injuries are usually a factor as well.

 

[Julien LG]

with the loss of weber and danault, this team as it sits, as of today, is a worse team than the team of 2019-2020 which finished in 24th place
unless a huge trade is made, eichel style, i see this team finishing at least 10 points out of the playoffs
people keep saying look at the youth development, but every team has youth getting better, so that will not surpass teams, it is just treading water
when your 2C is KK who could barely make the lineup in the playoffs, you should know you are in serious trouble,
the team hasn't made the playoffs in the atlantic since 2017, i cant see that changing
gally is also declining quickly

Not that i disagree about the lack of depth at center, you are really pushing it about been worse than 2019-2020.

Those were the players at season start: (the lines are made up just went with time on ice mostly)
Tatar - Danault - Gallagher
Drouin - Domi - Armia
Suzuki - Kotkaniemi - Byron
Lekhonen - Thompson - Weal

Weber - Mete
Petry - Chiarot
Kulak - Fleury

With guys like Cousins as depth. We even went on to trade guys at the deadline making the lineup even shaloower. It was bad.

 

[dennispol]

Not that i disagree about the lack of depth at center, you are really pushing it about been worse than 2019-2020.

Those were the players at season start: (the lines are made up just went with time on ice mostly)
Tatar - Danault - Gallagher
Drouin - Domi - Armia
Suzuki - Kotkaniemi - Byron
Lekhonen - Thompson - Weal

Weber - Mete
Petry - Chiarot
Kulak - Fleury

With guys like Cousins as depth. We even went on to trade guys at the deadline making the lineup even shaloower. It was bad.

I don't see how this seasons lineup is any better than that, its just shuffling players around,

Tatar out Hoffman in
Weber out Savard in
Domi out Suzuki in

Etc etc

This isn't improving anything, sideways moves at best,

This team will be 10 points out of the playoffs at least, even if Price is at his best all season....he will probably be injured again at some point in time, there isn't any margin for error this season,

Allen proved last season that he can't handle a starting job, he was sub .900 when being a regular starter, and this season the defense is worse

 

[Revansky]

Not a big fan of Hoffman as he's not a good 5 vs 5 player but he should help our PP. The price and term were okay so I can understand the move. Don't think you can have both Drouin and Hoffman in your top 6 as their both liability in the D Zone.

I think it will be a transition year and we are a bubble team this year. I don't think we make the playoffs because our division will be strong. Next year, we should have a influx of interesting prospects on defense (Norlinder and Harris, notably) and Ylonen and Poehling should be rounding our bottom 6.

So thing should get better in a year or two.

 

[LaP]

It's strange that Weber sucks all of a sudden. I've been preaching in the desert to almost no available for 5 years now that the guy is overrated. But wow now lot of those who defended him think he suddenly sucks? Even me one of his biggest detractor is able to agree that he will be hard to replace. He might be overrated but he's much better than Savard. The defense was already a big question mark last year it's just gonna be bigger now. On paper it's a very weak defense.

 

[EXPOS123]

It's strange that Weber sucks all of a sudden. I've been preaching in the desert to almost no available for 5 years now that the guy is overrated. But wow now lot of those who defended him think he suddenly sucks? Even me one of his biggest detractor is able to agree that he will be hard to replace. He might be overrated by he's much better than Savard. The defense was already a big question mark last year it's just gonna be bigger now. On paper it's a very weak defense.

Agree...(by the way, i was also in the desert with you about Weber)

 

[Captain97]

Not a big fan of Hoffman as he's not a good 5 vs 5 player but he should help our PP. The price and term were okay so I can understand the move. Don't think you can have both Drouin and Hoffman in your top 6 as their both liability in the D Zone.

I think it will be a transition year and we are a bubble team this year. I don't think we make the playoffs because our division will be strong. Next year, we should have a influx of interesting prospects on defense (Norlinder and Harris, notably) and Ylonen and Poehling should be rounding our bottom 6.

So thing should get better in a year or two.

Normally I'd agree with having Hoffman and Drouin both in your top 6 as concerning but I feel like we are going to run something like the following for minutes.

Toffoli - Suzuki - Caufield 17.5 min
Hoffman - KK - Gallagher 15.5 min
Drouin - Evans - Anderson 15 min
Perrault - Paquette- Armia 12 min

Because they are fairly insulated with no other players who are bad defensively (some are just average/okay) they won't be too exposed. Something else we may see is our coach actually coach this year unlike Julien.

Defensive zone faceoff send out Perrault with Evans and Anderson instead and Perrault switch when the puck is I'm transition. Stuff beyond okay line 3 you're up.

 

[dcyhabs]

It's strange that Weber sucks all of a sudden. I've been preaching in the desert to almost no available for 5 years now that the guy is overrated. But wow now lot of those who defended him think he suddenly sucks? Even me one of his biggest detractor is able to agree that he will be hard to replace. He might be overrated by he's much better than Savard. The defense was already a big question mark last year it's just gonna be bigger now. On paper it's a very weak defense.

I think most people were down on him until these last playoffs. His shot was weak (thumb injury) but he played solid defence. He bounced Point of the boards a few times after Point punched Evans (punching a guy with concussion issues in the head is pretty bad, should be a multi game suspension, not a "hey what happens in scrums stays in scrums").

 

[Anardil]

which won't happen unless Price has a serious injury, they may or may not make the playoffs but the chances of them getting either is very low imo.

It all depends on which Price the Habs get. If they get the play off bubble Price, they will compete for a play off berth. However, if they get the regular season Price, who has been a below average goalie since his MVP season, then they will definitely be in the hunt for both Wright and Bedard.

They still haven't replaced Weber. And for all the complaints generated by Danault's lack of consistent offence, they definitely have not replaced his elite defensive ability. Everyone lauds the Habs center depth now, but they are very young and inexperienced there.

Since they will back in their normal division, I can say with confidence that they are better than Buffalo and Detroit.

-Tampa are 2 time defending champs, and have lost no one from their core.
-Florida is much improved and were a worderful team last year.
-Toronto is still a dangerous, successful and deep regular season team.
-Boston is a team that for the several past pre seasons, many have expected to fall off, but they still manage to field a very competitive team, and they still have one of the top lines in the league.
-Ottawa is a young team filled with prospects at every position, and as we all saw last year, they more than held their own against the Habs.

So, only looking at the Habs division, there are 4 teams that are clearly better than the Habs and a 5th that most likely challenge them for a playoff spot. I won't bother going through the same exercise with the Metro division. I will only say that I believe that the Habs are better than only the Devils and Columbus, with the Flyers and the Rangers at the same level as the Habs.

To finish this post, if you count ONLY the teams that are clearly better than the Habs, the 8 playoff positions are already taken. It only takes an injury to Price to send this team into a death spiral, and the off season has already started with an operation to Price's knee, so...

 

[tinyzombies]

True. To me, it will depend on Romanov and KK 's progressions. If both exceed expectations we might very well be contender as soon as next year. If they stay the same we are a bubble team and if they progress a little then we're in between.

I think we have centers that are fine for their roles, but not much more. Suzuki is a fine 2way 1C, KK will be an ok 2C, Poehling an ok 3C, Evans a good 4C. Romanov will be a good defender who can chip in 30 points.

I think they need to go all out and get Eichel and if that means moving Suzuki or Caufield, so be it. I think those guys are very good players, but they aren't Eichel good and Eichel is still 24.

We have a lot of middle six guys as usual, I just don't see us being a contender unless we make a splash.

If you are going strictly by hierarchy for even strength, it looks like this:

Drouin - Suzuki - Caufield
Toffoli - KK - Gallagher
Hoffman - Poehling - Anderson
Lehkonen - Evans - Armia
Perreault
Paquette
(Byron)

 

[Miller Time]

I think we have centers that are fine for their roles, but not much more. Suzuki is a fine 2way 1C, KK will be an ok 2C, Poehling an ok 3C, Evans a good 4C. Romanov will be a good defender who can chip in 30 points.

I think they need to go all out and get Eichel and if that means moving Suzuki or Caufield, so be it. I think those guys are very good players, but they aren't Eichel good and Eichel is still 24.

i get the thought... but Eichel, who is still 24, has played 375 NHL games... and zero playoff games.

Suzuki and Caufield both just made it to the finals, on a team with not 1 skater anywhere near the caliber of Eichel...

so i don't think it's at all fair to state that we need to "go all out" to get Eichel. As good as he is, he isn't a Crosby level talent to bbuild around. If you gut our near-term top-end talent and add a massive cap burden, we're more likely to end up in a Buffalo situation than a solid contending one.

Even without the health concerns, adding Eichel only works if A- we can retain some solid ELC/RFA talent ready to contribute now at a level higher than their cap cost and B- some tough cap money goes the other way (Drouin/Byron).

if not, I'm not convinced Eichel is the type of leader or type of talent, to make the difference up.

Best offer i'd make to land Eichel:

To Buffalo
Poehling, Primeau, Harris, 1st ('21 or '22)
Drouin, Kulak

replace Harris with any of Strubble/Norlinder/Brook
replace Primeau with any of Ylonen/Strubble/Norlinder/Brook
throw in Mailloux if he's at all valued (doubt it)

but Suzuki, JKO, Caufield, Romanov, Ghule?
including any of them would mean heavily restricting any additional value. I'd add next to nothing to Suzuki, and very little to any of the other top NHL ready or close to ready top talents we have.

Not because Eichel, on his own, isn't worth it... but factor in Cap ramifications (both his cost and our broader team/roster situation) and health concerns, and the risk just isnt worth the potential reward of a #1 C a bit better than Suzuki is now, and who is reportedly not a great leader (both by example and in the lockerroom).

 

[SpeedyPotato]

It all depends on which Price the Habs get. If they get the play off bubble Price, they will compete for a play off berth. However, if they get the regular season Price, who has been a below average goalie since his MVP season, then they will definitely be in the hunt for both Wright and Bedard.

They still haven't replaced Weber. And for all the complaints generated by Danault's lack of consistent offence, they definitely have not replaced his elite defensive ability. Everyone lauds the Habs center depth now, but they are very young and inexperienced there.

Since they will back in their normal division, I can say with confidence that they are better than Buffalo and Detroit.

-Tampa are 2 time defending champs, and have lost no one from their core.
-Florida is much improved and were a worderful team last year.
-Toronto is still a dangerous, successful and deep regular season team.
-Boston is a team that for the several past pre seasons, many have expected to fall off, but they still manage to field a very competitive team, and they still have one of the top lines in the league.
-Ottawa is a young team filled with prospects at every position, and as we all saw last year, they more than held their own against the Habs.

So, only looking at the Habs division, there are 4 teams that are clearly better than the Habs and a 5th that most likely challenge them for a playoff spot. I won't bother going through the same exercise with the Metro division. I will only say that I believe that the Habs are better than only the Devils and Columbus, with the Flyers and the Rangers at the same level as the Habs.

To finish this post, if you count ONLY the teams that are clearly better than the Habs, the 8 playoff positions are already taken. It only takes an injury to Price to send this team into a death spiral, and the off season has already started with an operation to Price's knee, so...

Wish I could argue with you but if MB stands path we're not making the playoffs. Let's hope for a lottery pick if that's the case, that being said, can't see us be bad enough. Can't believe we're at that point again just after making the finals.

 

[jfhabs]

I think we have centers that are fine for their roles, but not much more. Suzuki is a fine 2way 1C, KK will be an ok 2C, Poehling an ok 3C, Evans a good 4C. Romanov will be a good defender who can chip in 30 points.

I think they need to go all out and get Eichel and if that means moving Suzuki or Caufield, so be it. I think those guys are very good players, but they aren't Eichel good and Eichel is still 24.

We have a lot of middle six guys as usual, I just don't see us being a contender unless we make a splash.

If you are going strictly by hierarchy for even strength, it looks like this:

Drouin - Suzuki - Caufield
Toffoli - KK - Gallagher
Hoffman - Poehling - Anderson
Lehkonen - Evans - Armia
Perreault
Paquette
(Byron)

Or go all out and tey to get a game breaker in the next draft!!
Personnally wouldn't go after Eichel at the price the Sabres want. It would cost us KK / Caufield + Romanov + 1st 2022 + 1st 2023.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

It's strange that Weber sucks all of a sudden. I've been preaching in the desert to almost no available for 5 years now that the guy is overrated. But wow now lot of those who defended him think he suddenly sucks? Even me one of his biggest detractor is able to agree that he will be hard to replace. He might be overrated but he's much better than Savard. The defense was already a big question mark last year it's just gonna be bigger now. On paper it's a very weak defense.

Wasn’t a fan of Weber when we traded for him, but he had some decent years. Last year he was awful. There is no way to sugarcoat it. I don’t like his game and I’m glad he won’t be playing.

 

[LaP]

Wasn’t a fan of Weber when we traded for him, but he had some decent years. Last year he was awful. There is no way to sugarcoat it. I don’t like his game and I’m glad he won’t be playing.

I don't like him either. Hated him in Nashville and still hate him. He's been one of the main reason why i distanced myself from this team in the last 4 years and i wont shed a single tear when it will be over. But what i mean is people act like finding a top 3 is easy. With Weber potentially out we are stuck with one legit top 3 in Petry and the guy will be soon 34 years old. I mean it would need a perfect storm for 3 of our young dmen to become legit top 3 and people act like it's fine no big deal. Anyway ...

 

[Scriptor]

I don't like him either. Hated him in Nashville and still hate him. He's been one of the main reason why i distanced myself from this team in the last 4 years and i wont shed a single tear when it will be over. But what i mean is people act like finding a top 3 is easy. With Weber potentially out we are stuck with one legit top 3 in Petry and the guy will be soon 34 years old. I mean it would need a perfect storm for 3 of our young dmen to become legit top 3 and people act like it's fine no big deal. Anyway ...

It's a huge deal, actually. That is the one factor I find more worrisome than the lack of experience of the C-Line.

We have enough veteran skill on the wing to surround all of our Cs with quality wingers for the rules they are given.

IMO, in Caufield, Toffoli, Gallagher, Hoffman, Drouin and Anderson, we have 6 legitimate top-6 wingers for the top-9.

Lehkonen and Armia, for our 4th line, are arguably 3rd line winger quality and can move up the lineup to add chemistry or replace injured wingers in the top-9.

The Cs will be fine, IMO.

The D is a much more usure prognostic, especially aven how long it can be for Ds to develop fully. Even Petry, as good as he is now, Took a long time to develop to that point and few would even have believed he would be this good today.

Romanov has skill. Norlinder has skill. Guhle has skill. Harris has all-round skill but isn't elite at anything.

Assuming all four will develop into top-4 Ds and be the D of the future is risky.

It sure would make life easy for theHabs, but is highly unlikely. It would be skilled, agile and big all at once. Toss in America's top-10 criminel in Marcoux and it is a solid potential D.

Dream land would have us icing:

Norlinder - Marcoux
Guhle - Romanov
Harris - Brook

Of these, Norlinder and Brook are the only Ds that don't really also play a physical game.

 

[Belial]

It's a huge deal, actually. That is the one factor I find more worrisome than the lack of experience of the C-Line.

We have enough veteran skill on the wing to surround all of our Cs with quality wingers for the rules they are given.

IMO, in Caufield, Toffoli, Gallagher, Hoffman, Drouin and Anderson, we have 6 legitimate top-6 wingers for the top-9.

Lehkonen and Armia, for our 4th line, are arguably 3rd line winger quality and can move up the lineup to add chemistry or replace injured wingers in the top-9.

The Cs will be fine, IMO.

The D is a much more usure prognostic, especially aven how long it can be for Ds to develop fully. Even Petry, as good as he is now, Took a long time to develop to that point and few would even have believed he would be this good today.

Romanov has skill. Norlinder has skill. Guhle has skill. Harris has all-round skill but isn't elite at anything.

Assuming all four will develop into top-4 Ds and be the D of the future is risky.

It sure would make life easy for theHabs, but is highly unlikely. It would be skilled, agile and big all at once. Toss in America's top-10 criminel in Marcoux and it is a solid potential D.

Dream land would have us icing:

Norlinder - Marcoux
Guhle - Romanov
Harris - Brook

Of these, Norlinder and Brook are the only Ds that don't really also play a physical game.

Petry and Savard are locked up for 4 more years and Edmundson for 3 more, I think it should be enough time to see what we have in those young guys.

 

[tinyzombies]

i get the thought... but Eichel, who is still 24, has played 375 NHL games... and zero playoff games.

Suzuki and Caufield both just made it to the finals, on a team with not 1 skater anywhere near the caliber of Eichel...

so i don't think it's at all fair to state that we need to "go all out" to get Eichel. As good as he is, he isn't a Crosby level talent to bbuild around. If you gut our near-term top-end talent and add a massive cap burden, we're more likely to end up in a Buffalo situation than a solid contending one.

Even without the health concerns, adding Eichel only works if A- we can retain some solid ELC/RFA talent ready to contribute now at a level higher than their cap cost and B- some tough cap money goes the other way (Drouin/Byron).

if not, I'm not convinced Eichel is the type of leader or type of talent, to make the difference up.

Best offer i'd make to land Eichel:

To Buffalo
Poehling, Primeau, Harris, 1st ('21 or '22)
Drouin, Kulak

replace Harris with any of Strubble/Norlinder/Brook
replace Primeau with any of Ylonen/Strubble/Norlinder/Brook
throw in Mailloux if he's at all valued (doubt it)

but Suzuki, JKO, Caufield, Romanov, Ghule?
including any of them would mean heavily restricting any additional value. I'd add next to nothing to Suzuki, and very little to any of the other top NHL ready or close to ready top talents we have.

Not because Eichel, on his own, isn't worth it... but factor in Cap ramifications (both his cost and our broader team/roster situation) and health concerns, and the risk just isnt worth the potential reward of a #1 C a bit better than Suzuki is now, and who is reportedly not a great leader (both by example and in the lockerroom).

He's elite make no mistake. We already spent the money badly so it's too late. The d is atrocious.

 

[Miller Time]

He's elite make no mistake. We already spent the money badly so it's too late.

i don't doubt at all that he's elite.

i do doubt his ability to be the kind of elite player that elevates those around him and can carry the weight of being a franchise focal point. That, plus the neck issues and the large number of long veteran contracts we already have on the books, are ample reasons not to risk the organization's top assets in pursuit of him, cap space or not.

 

[tinyzombies]

i don't doubt at all that he's elite.

i do doubt his ability to be the kind of elite player that elevates those around him and can carry the weight of being a franchise focal point. That, plus the neck issues and the large number of long veteran contracts we already have on the books, are ample reasons not to risk the organization's top assets in pursuit of him, cap space or not.

true enough. I trust our scouts, they're usually right. And this defense could work out too, who knows.

 

[Dondini]

I have these teams ahead of us.
Boston .Washington
Florida .Pittsburg
Ottawa .Carolina
Tampa .Islanders
Toronto .and probably the Rangers

I cannot see room for the Habs.

we have a legit shot at being better than more than half these teams

 

[BehindTheTimes]

I don't like him either. Hated him in Nashville and still hate him. He's been one of the main reason why i distanced myself from this team in the last 4 years and i wont shed a single tear when it will be over. But what i mean is people act like finding a top 3 is easy. With Weber potentially out we are stuck with one legit top 3 in Petry and the guy will be soon 34 years old. I mean it would need a perfect storm for 3 of our young dmen to become legit top 3 and people act like it's fine no big deal. Anyway ...

It’s the rest of the d built around him that I am worried about. You don’t build a d Corp that 2/3 of it can’t transition the puck. Weber/Chiarot/Edmundson/Savard it’s all variations on the same thing. If Petry goes down, god help us. I’d say Weber at best is a 2nd pairing dman now. Hopefully his absence will open up a spot for dman who can transition the puck. Assuming we can find one and considering our current d makeup, I think Weber being out is a huge opportunity to reshape the d and move on from the Weber era entirely. I’m not saying it will be easy, mb failed to replace Markov all this time and Markov had a greater impact on the ice at their respective stages in their careers IMO.

I don’t like dmen that spend the majority of their shift scrambling around in their own zone even if they are good at that particular aspect of the game. It’s a part of the game I’d rather not play if it really comes down to it.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Wish they would fix this site for mobile users, so damn annoying.