Are the Blackhawks the team that the Penguins were supposed to be?

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Rutherford drafted an 18 year old European forward with his first round pick last draft.

So... yeah...

When healthy a 20 year old European is arguably our second most important defenseman.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

When healthy a 20 year old European is arguably our second most important defenseman.

Bolded the key work there for you.

 

[IcedCapp]

When healthy a 20 year old European is arguably our second most important defenseman.

21 by the time the season starts, ****er

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Bolded the key work there for you.

Yeah whatever tough guy.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

21 by the time the season starts, ****er

Sick of these vets clogging up the roster.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

This is healthy.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Rutherford drafted an 18 year old European forward with his first round pick last draft.

So... yeah...

That's funny, I remember mentioning more than just Rutherford. Maybe there's something there you missed?

Maybe Bylsma refused to play young players. Maybe Shero rarely drafted out of Europe. MaybeShero traded away young players for "experience." Maybe Rutherford traded away young players for "experience."

Kapanen was a great pick. Hopefully this organization doesn't stunt his development. Hopefully Rutherford doesn't deal him for Patrick Sharp.

When healthy a 20 year old European is arguably our second most important defenseman.

I guess I missed Maatta's goal and game-winning assist tonight.

 

[billybudd]

I guess I missed the part where we had a 20 year old forward on Teravainen's level in the system since Staal was that age.

 

[FDBluth]

The dumbest thing Shero ever did--and a sign of things to come--was drafting Staal. He used a 2nd overall pick to draft for his third line when players like Toews, Kessel and Backstrom were on the table. I think Toews could have transformed into a fantastic two-way winger with Crosby. Kessel could have been really good as well.

 

[Vujtek]

Crosby/Malkin and Toews/Kane eras had a similar development curve early on. Leaving out Crosby's rookie season (since Malkin was still in Russia) and 2011 playoffs (since it was a lost season due to injuries to both Crosby and Malkin), it looks like this:

1st year - Penguins lost in the 1st round, Blackhawks just missed the playoffs
2nd year - Both had deep playoff runs; Penguins lost in the Final, Blackhawks lost in the Conference Final
3rd year - Both won the Stanley Cup
4th year - Cup hangover year; Penguins lost in the 2nd round, Blackhawks lost in 1st round
5th year - Penguins lost in the 1st round, Blackhawks lost in the 1st round
6th year - Penguins lost in the Conference Final, Blackhawks won their 2nd Cup in this era

Now that is the missed opportunity by Penguins. The team was deep and had a good opportunity to make it to the Final but they blew it against the Bruins. Oh what could have been... Penguins vs. Blackhawks in the Stanley Cup Final. What a series that would have been. But Penguins blew their chance, Blackhawks didn't. That's where their path starts to take different directions and IMO it's largely due to the roster decisions made in summer 2013.

7th year - Penguins lost game 7 in the 2nd round, Blackhawks lost game 7 in Conference Final

Penguins were still quite close results wise but another lost opportunity (blewing 3-1 series lead), even though they were far from favorites that year.

8th year - Penguins lost in the 1st round, Blackhawks are playing in the Stanley Cup Final

By this time Penguins have fallen behind the Blackhawks by a clear margin.

----------

So both had deep playoff runs in their 2nd season during these eras and won the Cup in the 3rd season. After the Cup win both had two quieter seasons before another deep run. Pens' run that year fell short in the Conference Final while Blackhawks went all the way to their 2nd Cup. But there are similarities there in the overall development curve.

As I said IMO the decisions made in summer 2013 set the Penguins back and that's why we are in this situation now while Blackhawks are still playing.

Injuries have also played part. Penguins basically lost a whole season to injuries and in other year they have suffered lots of injuries too, especially compared to Blackhawks. That's just the way it is, not an excuse. You need healthy roster most parts to make deep playoff runs. Blackhawks have had more luck than Penguins from that point of view.

We'll see how it develops from here on. Not many optimistic Penguins fans these days but I still believe in this core and with finding the right supporting cast, there could be some succesful years ahead. Have faith. As for the Blackhawks, they set themselves nicely for the future even if they have to lose some key supporting cast players this summer. Will they have another quieter period like after their 1st Cup win while developing their younger players or will they remain one of the top teams? Remains to be seen.

 

[MrBurghundy]

That's funny, I remember mentioning more than just Rutherford. Maybe there's something there you missed?

Maybe Bylsma refused to play young players. Maybe Shero rarely drafted out of Europe. MaybeShero traded away young players for "experience." Maybe Rutherford traded away young players for "experience."

Kapanen was a great pick. Hopefully this organization doesn't stunt his development. Hopefully Rutherford doesn't deal him for Patrick Sharp.

No, I didn't miss anything. It was you who added in Rutherford. I addressed him specifically as the man who just picked a European forward. JR and the other 2 have nothing in common in that regard. Hence my post.

 

[lastcupever75]

at least no one on the board is still holding onto that "stall was a better pick then toews" BS

 

[lastcupever75]

Let's make this more simple. Joel Q is about as key as reason if any with regards to how successful the Hawks have been. He does not always have great players and if you analyze the trade moves above as stated by many posters, few have given the Hawks any great play.

Joel Q knows how to put together a team with what he is given.

Now could you imagine if say......I don't know.......lets say Disco Dan was coaching the Hawks during this same span. Do anyone really believe that they would had the same success? Heck, would they have won a Cup?

Now imagine if Joel Q was here.......I think it's safe to say we don't blow 3 - 1 series leads (TB, NYR) or fall apart mentally (too many times to name). He would make roster decisions getting the best out of all our players. To me their most important player is Duncan Keith who has been a horse and best D man in game since Lidstrom. On the rare occasions he gets ruined, Hawks players tag the infringing player. Letang could have been used the same way but when he gets runned, nobody steps up.

spot on

 

[MrBurghundy]

at least no one on the board is still holding onto that "stall was a better pick then toews" BS

No, but Staal was.

 

[KIRK]

Let's make this more simple. Joel Q is about as key as reason if any with regards to how successful the Hawks have been. He does not always have great players and if you analyze the trade moves above as stated by many posters, few have given the Hawks any great play.

Joel Q knows how to put together a team with what he is given.

Now could you imagine if say......I don't know.......lets say Disco Dan was coaching the Hawks during this same span. Do anyone really believe that they would had the same success? Heck, would they have won a Cup?

Now imagine if Joel Q was here.......I think it's safe to say we don't blow 3 - 1 series leads (TB, NYR) or fall apart mentally (too many times to name). He would make roster decisions getting the best out of all our players. To me their most important player is Duncan Keith who has been a horse and best D man in game since Lidstrom. On the rare occasions he gets ruined, Hawks players tag the infringing player. Letang could have been used the same way but when he gets runned, nobody steps up.

I think something also can be said for Bowman's approach to team building compared to Shero's and now Rutherford's.

 

[Joejosh999]

I thought Joel Q nearly p***** away their last Cup because he was too stubborn to put Kane and Toews together until the very last minute.

 

[KIRK]

I thought Joel Q nearly p***** away their last Cup because he was too stubborn to put Kane and Toews together until the very last minute.

At least he actually was willing to give in eventually.

 

[Coach Travis]

Chicago hasn't been super stellar at the draft table. They haven't won all their trades. But they have trimmed the fat when needed and have had a healthy amount of turnover.

I thought Joel Q nearly p***** away their last Cup because he was too stubborn to put Kane and Toews together until the very last minute.

Coaches are villains than heroes than back again. Back in 2013 Blackhawks fans wanted Q's head while they were down 3-1 to the Red Wings. Then again against Anaheim. Rinse repeat. It'll be no different with Mike Johnstone. If he fails then he's stupid and so is anyone who ever believed in him. If he succeeds then we're all magnanimous in his reflected glory. A self-fullfilling prophecy.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Chicago hasn't been super stellar at the draft table. They haven't won all their trades. But they have trimmed the fat when needed and have had a healthy amount of turnover.

No, but they've been above average to great in all three. Most GMs are only above average to great on 1 and a few in 2.

 

[lastcupever75]

No, but Staal was.

ya, keep believing that

lol

 

[MrBurghundy]

ya, keep believing that

lol

Was more making fun of the Stall-Staal dynamic than actually believing what I said.

 

[#66]

The dumbest thing Shero ever did--and a sign of things to come--was drafting Staal. He used a 2nd overall pick to draft for his third line when players like Toews, Kessel and Backstrom were on the table. I think Toews could have transformed into a fantastic two-way winger with Crosby. Kessel could have been really good as well.

I have more of a problem with the 2009 draft and the drafting of defensemen after defensemen. Even if that drafting style worked out.. how many young defensemen can actually play at once without getting burned?

I actually think the Bolts are the team that Mario wants to emulate. They play structured but also know when to go fast and loose... Mario always said something like... You can figure out a system but you can't defend creativity.

Full credit to Yzerman for understanding what kind of support system a star like Stamkos needs around him.

 

[MrBurghundy]

I have more of a problem with the 2009 draft and the drafting of defensemen after defensemen. Even if that drafting style worked out.. how many young defensemen can actually play at once without getting burned?

I actually think the Bolts are the team that Mario wants to emulate. They play structured but also know when to go fast and loose... Mario always said something like... You can figure out a system but you can't defend creativity.

Full credit to Yzerman for understanding what kind of support system a star like Stamkos needs around him.

I mean... yeah that's what we all hope. But what facts actually back that statement up?

 

[Son Goku]

Man do we need a gem in our farm really bad. Just get lucky once, please.

 

[66-30-33]

I have more of a problem with the 2009 draft and the drafting of defensemen after defensemen. Even if that drafting style worked out.. how many young defensemen can actually play at once without getting burned?

I actually think the Bolts are the team that Mario wants to emulate. They play structured but also know when to go fast and loose... Mario always said something like... You can figure out a system but you can't defend creativity.

Full credit to Yzerman for understanding what kind of support system a star like Stamkos needs around him.

Mario said he wants to be more like Montreal in that interview with DK and Burkle.