Anyone hear of expansion/merger plans for ECHL, CHL, SPHL FOR 2013-14?

[No Fun Shogun]

Yeah, it's a shame, really. Think that the interest is there in Baltimore for minor league hockey but, much like Kansas City and the NHL, there isn't a viable owner in place.

 

[mk80]

Yes and ownership group is really the missing piece of the puzzle right now in Baltimore. I think an ECHL franchise would work well there serving a large market surrounded by many NHL franchises.

 

[Royalsflagrunner77]

How about putting a team in the upper nort east like vermont or Mass or do you think the ahl presance is to strong up there. Personaly i would like to see trenton come back with a better owner and front office staff

 

[JungleJON]

ECHL was looking at Burlington, VT a few years back but the plans fizzled out. Don't think they are looking much in the NE as it seems to be tied up with the AHL. But if you start to see a migration out West by some of the AHL teams, the ECHL might move in to those locations.
I don't see Wheeling or Elmira in the league much longer - maybe as Johnstown did drop down to Junior Hockey.

 

[mk80]

How about putting a team in the upper nort east like vermont or Mass or do you think the ahl presance is to strong up there. Personaly i would like to see trenton come back with a better owner and front office staff

I don't think Trenton will come back for a while... the Titans have left many unpaid debts, and have stiffed season ticket holders, arena payments, and numerous charities (even from events that happened early in the year).

http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2013/08/trenton_titans_sign_removed_from_sun_bank_arena_more_groups_say_they_are_owed_money.html

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Not to mention that the northeast is already fairly crowded with the minor leagues and especially collegiate hockey as it is, so don't really think there's much room for expansion up there, especially in Massachusetts.

Also, is there another suitable arena in Vermont? Wasn't that the issue facing the FHL when they tried putting a team up there?

 

[mk80]

None that I know the ECHL would accept. I do think there a few good market for the ECHL although they missed their chance on one (For now)

Glens Falls once the Phantoms move to Allentown, and honestly I don't think Utica will have a long run in the AHL but I believe an ECHL version of the Utica Comets could do very well.

 

[Cacciaguida]

Yeah, it's a shame, really. Think that the interest is there in Baltimore for minor league hockey but, much like Kansas City and the NHL, there isn't a viable owner in place.

Hey, I never thought I'd see the day with professional hockey being played in San Francisco!
Baltimore would be a great ECHL affiliate for the Capitals.

Speaking of Kansas City, why isn't there any minor league teams there? I have no idea why they're even in NHL discussion if they can't even support minor league team, or was it from something I'm not aware of?
Why did the Blades even move, was it arena issues, a bad draw, something else?

Could the city be viable for the ECHL if they could find an owner? Or would they be better suited for the AHL?

Even Las Vegas has a team and I feel they should stay far away from the NHL. Better suited for minor hockey

I'm a firm believer that a city must show it can support minor/junior hockey before it can get granted professional hockey. Not top their league in attendance, but they must generate a profit.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

ECHL was looking at Burlington, VT a few years back but the plans fizzled out. Don't think they are looking much in the NE as it seems to be tied up with the AHL. But if you start to see a migration out West by some of the AHL teams, the ECHL might move in to those locations.
I don't see Wheeling or Elmira in the league much longer - maybe as Johnstown did drop down to Junior Hockey.

If Elmira and Wheeling go, so does Reading.

 

[Slowe]

Speaking of Kansas City, why isn't there any minor league teams there? I have no idea why they're even in NHL discussion if they can't even support minor league team, or was it from something I'm not aware of?
Why did the Blades even move, was it arena issues, a bad draw, something else?

Could the city be viable for the ECHL if they could find an owner? Or would they be better suited for the AHL?

Kansas City does have minor league hockey. The Missouri Mavericks have been playing in the CHL since 2009. They play in the Independence Events Center which is in the town of Independence, a suburb of Kansas City. Capacity for the arena is 5,800 for hockey. HockeyDB has their average attendance at about 5,500 for the past three years. As for the ECHL, just look for one of the many threads suggesting the CHL should be absorbed into the ECHL.

If an NHL team were to land here it would be in the existing Sprint Center which holds 17,500 for hockey.



As a bonus, here's a little history on pro hockey teams in Kansas City per Wikipedia:

Prior to the Mavericks, the Kansas City Blades played in the IHL from 1990 - 2001 in the IHL. The owners (DeVos family) were struggling financially and wanted to move them to Tulsa. It never happened, and shortly after the IHL folded. Of course many surviving teams moved to the AHL. The DeVos family apparently owned the Missouri Mavericks, Grand Rapids Griffins, and Florida Solar Bears. Per AHL rules an owner can only have one team so they kept the Griffins and folded the other two. Attendance for the team was highest in 91-92 at 7,300. By 00-01 it averaged 5,200.

The Kansas City Outlaws played one season in 2004 - 2005 in the UHL. They struggled to attract fans and folded after just the one year. Attendance averaged 2,700 fans.

 

[mk80]

The Mavericks have never been owned by the Devos Family.

The Mavericks are technically the relocated Lubbock Cotton Kings franchise however they didn't retain the history and were counted as an expansion team. The owners of the Cotton Kings own the Mavericks.

The Mavericks do very weel in the area with many sellouts and great fan support. The Mavericks will be in the ECHL one day but after the CHL goes under once and for all, will they make the jump along with the strronger CHL core.

 

[HisIceness]

Still waiting on the Columbia Inferno to return.

Also waiting on the Myrtle Beach Thunderboltz to finally become a reality.

Unfortunately neither of these have much of a chance of happening.

 

[sctvman]

Yeah. Columbia would be a great fit in the ECHL, but U. of South Carolina won't let anybody play in their arena. That's why Columbia doesn't have minor league baseball either. All they have is a summer league team, which is most likely leaving after this year.

 

[Royalsflagrunner77]

Hey, I never thought I'd see the day with professional hockey being played in San Francisco!
Baltimore would be a great ECHL affiliate for the Capitals.

Speaking of Kansas City, why isn't there any minor league teams there? I have no idea why they're even in NHL discussion if they can't even support minor league team, or was it from something I'm not aware of?
Why did the Blades even move, was it arena issues, a bad draw, something else?

Could the city be viable for the ECHL if they could find an owner? Or would they be better suited for the AHL?

Even Las Vegas has a team and I feel they should stay far away from the NHL. Better suited for minor hockey

I'm a firm believer that a city must show it can support minor/junior hockey before it can get granted professional hockey. Not top their league in attendance, but they must generate a profit.

look at Reading they never had any hockey history at all and have at least made a majority profit

 

[Royalsflagrunner77]

Still waiting on the Columbia Inferno to return.

Also waiting on the Myrtle Beach Thunderboltz to finally become a reality.

Unfortunately neither of these have much of a chance of happening.

I have a friend that lives down that way he said Columbia bought land for a arena they broke ground in 2007 then stop building do to financial issues

 

[Royalsflagrunner77]

If Elmira and Wheeling go, so does Reading.

I don't think Reading will go even if Elmira and Wheeling flop. Reading has solid ownership in SMG (stadium managment group) witch is a billion dollar courp and BCCA (Berks county convention authority).Plus to start this season reading has sold 3500 season tickets already and have sold another 1500 weekend mini plans on top of that . The city of reading love and support their team.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

I don't think Reading will go even if Elmira and Wheeling flop. Reading has solid ownership in SMG (stadium managment group) witch is a billion dollar courp and BCCA (Berks county convention authority).Plus to start this season reading has sold 3500 season tickets already and have sold another 1500 weekend mini plans on top of that . The city of reading love and support their team.

It won't work long term. I saw Elmira try to do this in the UHL with the closest team being in Michigan. Similar to what it would be with the Ohio teams and FT Wayne. The travel will become a *****. Travel expenses will become an issue long term. I can't say SMG would give a **** because Reading isn't the only place they are involved. Pretty sure Johnstown had SMG around at one point. I know Afr had them in here like 6 or 7 years ago.

The only reason their season tickets are at that high a number is because they won. If they have a crappy year I would bet just on the basics of sports that the number goes down a fair amount. Then theres the Lehigh Valley Phantoms coming in 2014. Hell, during this past season all I could see on places of banter was Reading fans blasting Courville saying he's gotta go. I do think he is overrated and the biggest reason they won was the lockout. It gave them access to guys they likely elsewise wouldn't have had or at the very least long enough to get playoff eligible. It didn't hurt that their higher ups CHOKED in the 1st rounds of the playoffs. The Jackals offseason issues hurt them but they were still pretty competitive. I think if they were in a stable position like this summer them and Reading would have really gone more toe to toe. But we went all summer not knowing I we would play. No coach in Mid September. The coaches in places like Elmira and Reading have it somewhat easy. They get an influx of talent because of location and the send downs from AHL. The hardest part is when the rosters get depleted around December and January. But they usually get off to decent starts to offset that stretch. I would say they get the best talent in the league because theres so many AHL teams within these parts and they are the closest E teams around. Guys know that and take advantage of the fact they will likely get a callup. I like the talent and all but I hate musical chairs roster.


Based on what I've heard our new owners have way more cash than Afr allegedly did. Season Ticket sales are going up. Last year was REALLY bad. But I couldn't blame people. There was no guarantee they would even play. They literally found out like the Monday of the season's beginning week. There was no guarantee's they would finish the season once it started. Broken ice plant and all. It really helps that the owners that own the arena own the team(samething as under Afr actually) They really are building the joint up. Putting in a new restaurant and a micro-brewery. Under Afr the team and arena were 2 separate entities. Last year to make his payments he had to borrow from the Jackals entity. So it was the arena in poor financial shape, not the team. The team was profitable because they played in an arena the owner owned and obviously because he didn't pay his vendors and bills, etc. So it was a bit of a false lie. But at the sametime...the arena was only utilized like 45-50 nights a year. Mostly hockey and HS Graduations. Now theres a comedy club every week once a night, they did some movies in the summer, a beer tasting next month, Travis Tritt is coming in(haven't had a concert there in forever) Now with the brewery and restaurant being open everyday they plan on getting some action everyday which can only help. I don't know how the team will do financially but they are playing rent free and that doesn't hurt and they will get concessions and all that. If they can get the people back they do have a gold mine setup here to make it actually work long term. It all hinges on the community response at this point in attendance and daily traffic. I think like Reading they have a long term chance now. It looked bleak for both for awhile. I think if I recall hearing right before the local entity bought half of your team an outsider was looking at them for like Baltimore in a proposed new arena deal.

Wheeling i'm not optimistic about at all. Attendance was horrible long before the Brook's bros decided to sell.

 

[HisIceness]

I have a friend that lives down that way he said Columbia bought land for a arena they broke ground in 2007 then stop building do to financial issues

I drove by the area that (I'm pretty sure) is supposed to be the arena site about 3 years ago and I remember it still being grass. I highly doubt much has changed.

The Inferno were supposed to move to the Colonial Life Center after I think 07-08 but as sctvman pointed out the powers that be at USC didn't want that. So after ruling out an arena site near the airport, plans shifted to the current site and then they just stopped.

I understand that USC athletics are big in Columbia but there's no reason for them to run professional teams out of town like they've done with the Inferno and the numerous baseball teams the city has had.

 

[JB51Hockey]

Reading was the best in the East, maybe they wouldn't have won it all if they played Alaska. Still a top 2 team.

 

[Royalsflagrunner77]

Reading was the best in the East, maybe they wouldn't have won it all if they played Alaska. Still a top 2 team.

i agree its not the fact of Reading an the vasinity of AHL teams that makes them a good team its the coaching staff. It it was for vasinity reading would have had a good team every year for example the 2011 2012 season Courville had to dismantle the roster to even make a attempt at the playoffs which some what work they made it in by the skin of their teeth . then lost to Elmira in the first round

 

[Royalsflagrunner77]

Mrtyle Beach gave up their membership during the 2009 to 2010 season

http://www.echl.com/history

 

[Royalsflagrunner77]

anyone hear of this i stumbled across this echl expansion in the DC area the Dulles Aviators
http://www.rockthered.net/2011-articles/april/echl-expansion-to-target-booming-dc-market.html

 

[No Fun Shogun]

First I've heard of it, but considering that that article is from 2011, I'm doubting there's much truth to it now.

 

[Royalsflagrunner77]

It won't work long term. I saw Elmira try to do this in the UHL with the closest team being in Michigan. Similar to what it would be with the Ohio teams and FT Wayne. The travel will become a *****. Travel expenses will become an issue long term. I can't say SMG would give a **** because Reading isn't the only place they are involved. Pretty sure Johnstown had SMG around at one point. I know Afr had them in here like 6 or 7 years ago.

The only reason their season tickets are at that high a number is because they won. If they have a crappy year I would bet just on the basics of sports that the number goes down a fair amount. Then theres the Lehigh Valley Phantoms coming in 2014. Hell, during this past season all I could see on places of banter was Reading fans blasting Courville saying he's gotta go. I do think he is overrated and the biggest reason they won was the lockout. It gave them access to guys they likely elsewise wouldn't have had or at the very least long enough to get playoff eligible. It didn't hurt that their higher ups CHOKED in the 1st rounds of the playoffs. The Jackals offseason issues hurt them but they were still pretty competitive. I think if they were in a stable position like this summer them and Reading would have really gone more toe to toe. But we went all summer not knowing I we would play. No coach in Mid September. The coaches in places like Elmira and Reading have it somewhat easy. They get an influx of talent because of location and the send downs from AHL. The hardest part is when the rosters get depleted around December and January. But they usually get off to decent starts to offset that stretch. I would say they get the best talent in the league because theres so many AHL teams within these parts and they are the closest E teams around. Guys know that and take advantage of the fact they will likely get a callup. I like the talent and all but I hate musical chairs roster.


Based on what I've heard our new owners have way more cash than Afr allegedly did. Season Ticket sales are going up. Last year was REALLY bad. But I couldn't blame people. There was no guarantee they would even play. They literally found out like the Monday of the season's beginning week. There was no guarantee's they would finish the season once it started. Broken ice plant and all. It really helps that the owners that own the arena own the team(samething as under Afr actually) They really are building the joint up. Putting in a new restaurant and a micro-brewery. Under Afr the team and arena were 2 separate entities. Last year to make his payments he had to borrow from the Jackals entity. So it was the arena in poor financial shape, not the team. The team was profitable because they played in an arena the owner owned and obviously because he didn't pay his vendors and bills, etc. So it was a bit of a false lie. But at the sametime...the arena was only utilized like 45-50 nights a year. Mostly hockey and HS Graduations. Now theres a comedy club every week once a night, they did some movies in the summer, a beer tasting next month, Travis Tritt is coming in(haven't had a concert there in forever) Now with the brewery and restaurant being open everyday they plan on getting some action everyday which can only help. I don't know how the team will do financially but they are playing rent free and that doesn't hurt and they will get concessions and all that. If they can get the people back they do have a gold mine setup here to make it actually work long term. It all hinges on the community response at this point in attendance and daily traffic. I think like Reading they have a long term chance now. It looked bleak for both for awhile. I think if I recall hearing right before the local entity bought half of your team an outsider was looking at them for like Baltimore in a proposed new arena deal.

Wheeling i'm not optimistic about at all. Attendance was horrible long before the Brook's bros decided to sell.

I know what helps reading is the fact that SMG owns the building and majority of the team this rules out the vendors fees and other expenses . Actually now that i think about it Reading is lucky they still have a team the LA KINGS owned the team in the beging when ontario moved in LA cleaned house and moved the entire office and coaching staff to Ontario and put the team u for sale that when SMG stepped in and bought them saving the team . But the only problem i see for Reading is that they wont align with Comcast Spactacor wich rules any affilation with the Future Allentown Phantoms and the Flyers out.

 

[Royalsflagrunner77]

It won't work long term. I saw Elmira try to do this in the UHL with the closest team being in Michigan. Similar to what it would be with the Ohio teams and FT Wayne. The travel will become a *****. Travel expenses will become an issue long term. I can't say SMG would give a **** because Reading isn't the only place they are involved. Pretty sure Johnstown had SMG around at one point. I know Afr had them in here like 6 or 7 years ago.

The only reason their season tickets are at that high a number is because they won. If they have a crappy year I would bet just on the basics of sports that the number goes down a fair amount. Then theres the Lehigh Valley Phantoms coming in 2014. Hell, during this past season all I could see on places of banter was Reading fans blasting Courville saying he's gotta go. I do think he is overrated and the biggest reason they won was the lockout. It gave them access to guys they likely elsewise wouldn't have had or at the very least long enough to get playoff eligible. It didn't hurt that their higher ups CHOKED in the 1st rounds of the playoffs. The Jackals offseason issues hurt them but they were still pretty competitive. I think if they were in a stable position like this summer them and Reading would have really gone more toe to toe. But we went all summer not knowing I we would play. No coach in Mid September. The coaches in places like Elmira and Reading have it somewhat easy. They get an influx of talent because of location and the send downs from AHL. The hardest part is when the rosters get depleted around December and January. But they usually get off to decent starts to offset that stretch. I would say they get the best talent in the league because theres so many AHL teams within these parts and they are the closest E teams around. Guys know that and take advantage of the fact they will likely get a callup. I like the talent and all but I hate musical chairs roster.


Based on what I've heard our new owners have way more cash than Afr allegedly did. Season Ticket sales are going up. Last year was REALLY bad. But I couldn't blame people. There was no guarantee they would even play. They literally found out like the Monday of the season's beginning week. There was no guarantee's they would finish the season once it started. Broken ice plant and all. It really helps that the owners that own the arena own the team(samething as under Afr actually) They really are building the joint up. Putting in a new restaurant and a micro-brewery. Under Afr the team and arena were 2 separate entities. Last year to make his payments he had to borrow from the Jackals entity. So it was the arena in poor financial shape, not the team. The team was profitable because they played in an arena the owner owned and obviously because he didn't pay his vendors and bills, etc. So it was a bit of a false lie. But at the sametime...the arena was only utilized like 45-50 nights a year. Mostly hockey and HS Graduations. Now theres a comedy club every week once a night, they did some movies in the summer, a beer tasting next month, Travis Tritt is coming in(haven't had a concert there in forever) Now with the brewery and restaurant being open everyday they plan on getting some action everyday which can only help. I don't know how the team will do financially but they are playing rent free and that doesn't hurt and they will get concessions and all that. If they can get the people back they do have a gold mine setup here to make it actually work long term. It all hinges on the community response at this point in attendance and daily traffic. I think like Reading they have a long term chance now. It looked bleak for both for awhile. I think if I recall hearing right before the local entity bought half of your team an outsider was looking at them for like Baltimore in a proposed new arena deal.

Wheeling i'm not optimistic about at all. Attendance was horrible long before the Brook's bros decided to sell.

Plus the hole thing with johnstown wasnt much of a financial thing as it was greed i heard from a johnstown booster club member that greenville offered double of what the team was wearth to move there