Anyone else surprised at the US record at World men's championship?

[ORRFForever]

no, that's not it. but TSN has done an amazing job at marketing/promoting the tournament.

"junior" minor hockey tournaments at Christmas was a natural fit for us. growing up Christmas was tournament time. Credit to the IIHF for selecting Christmas time for U20 tournament. If they had opted for some other month in the calendar for the tournament I'm not sure it becomes what it became for us in Canada.

^ This. ^

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I’d rank it lower than winning the WJC20 or WJC18. We should be better at this tournament, but it’s not an important tournament and not indicative of any larger issue.

 

[ORRFForever]

I’d rank it lower than winning the WJC20 or WJC18. We should be better at this tournament, but it’s not an important tournament and not indicative of any larger issue.

The American teams (IIRC) tend to start off the tournament like a house on fire and fade at the end. It's a long tournament and it's hard to stay motivated when the tournament means next to nothing to you and the fans at home.

 

[Peiskos]

I feel like American hockey fans pretend that this tournament doesn't matter because of their record at it. If they were winning with regularity the story would be a different one imo.

Ultimately this tournament is about depth, a true test of a nations depth is their ability to win the World Championships and to do it with some regularity, its also the only annual mens level tournament that we have so simply based on that it has value and merit. We all know every country is usually missing their best players, but some tournaments have been pretty close.

It is quite bizarre to see the US's inability to win it or even get past the QF, they've sent some decent rosters on paper before but they never seem able to break through. I would absolutely say they are severely underperforming.

 

[ORRFForever]

I feel like American hockey fans pretend that this tournament doesn't matter because of their record at it. If they were winning with regularity the story would be a different one imo.

Ultimately this tournament is about depth, a true test of a nations depth is their ability to win the World Championships and to do it with some regularity, its also the only annual mens level tournament that we have so simply based on that it has value and merit. We all know every country is usually missing their best players, but some tournaments have been pretty close.

It is quite bizarre to see the US's inability to win it or even get past the QF, they've sent some decent rosters on paper before but they never seem able to break through. I would absolutely say they are severely underperforming.

Re : "If they were winning with regularity the story would be a different one..."

That's probably true.

Canadian fans don't care and yet we still care 100 times more than the average American hockey fan. It's just not on their radar - and I don't blame them.

Again, the W.C. is too long and it's played too often. Plus, the big ice doesn't help.

 

[BOS358]

I feel like American hockey fans pretend that this tournament doesn't matter because of their record at it. If they were winning with regularity the story would be a different one imo.

Oh, come on, this isn't something that Americans do! Wait, World Juniors were played prior to 2003? (end sarcasm)

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I feel like American hockey fans pretend that this tournament doesn't matter because of their record at it. If they were winning with regularity the story would be a different one imo.

Ultimately this tournament is about depth, a true test of a nations depth is their ability to win the World Championships and to do it with some regularity, its also the only annual mens level tournament that we have so simply based on that it has value and merit. We all know every country is usually missing their best players, but some tournaments have been pretty close.

It is quite bizarre to see the US's inability to win it or even get past the QF, they've sent some decent rosters on paper before but they never seem able to break through. I would absolutely say they are severely underperforming.

You mean like this year where we took bronze? Anyway, you seriously overestimate the number of Americans, even on this site that give a crap about this tournament.

 

[alko]

Bring back Czechoslovakia.

Och no. That would help much. I would said something opposite: Split Canada -> Quebec, Ontario, Rest of Canada. And we will have 3 top teams. Quality will grow.

 

[JackSlater]

Och no. That would help much. I would said something opposite: Split Canada -> Quebec, Ontario, Rest of Canada. And we will have 3 top teams. Quality will grow.

You cannot have team Rest of Canada, as ROC has already been taken for international competition.

 

[garbageteam]

If I was an American, I wouldn't care.

As a Canadian, I'd happily trade the World Championship for the World Junior title.

I wouldn't, we win that tournament every year. It's kind of a crapshoot. The timing and tradition has enshrined it as something of a national pastime though, so I can see why it's more important to most.

It's funny how people can suspend the importance of "best on best" to them - really, age limited players is pretty arbitrary, and the truly top players don't get released due to NHL contracts, and then cry foul WHCs aren't best on best. A nation's best players could have just aged out that year by chance and get destroyed, and last year might have had its top D and F on an NHL roster and perform terribly. Not an accurate reflection or tournament. These annoying "best on best" purists shouldn't be bothering with international hockey at all unless it's the OGs with NHL players to avoid their own hypocrisy.

Regarding the US, I think their depth is actually fairly mediocre past the first few sets of A, B and C teams. They usually send a D level roster, worst for them than Canada relative to their best players. I'm not surprised a team made up of top Euros could beat a group of American NHL 3rd-4th liners and AHLers time and time again. You're kidding yourselves if you think the NHL literally has the best 900 hockey players on the planet, I think the bottom third/quartile has a few interchangeable players (i.e. "replacement level") with the best of the rest of the world leagues. Look at how many lower tier NHL players end up going to Europe and - while being very good there - not necessarily all-stars.

In a true best on best with their absolute top players (i.e. not stupidly handicapped by some made up U23 North American team) the US has a legitimate claim to possibly being #2.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I wouldn't, we win that tournament every year. It's kind of a crapshoot. The timing and tradition has enshrined it as something of a national pastime though, so I can see why it's more important to most.

It's funny how people can suspend the importance of "best on best" to them - really, age limited players is pretty arbitrary, and the truly top players don't get released due to NHL contracts, and then cry foul WHCs aren't best on best. A nation's best players could have just aged out that year by chance and get destroyed, and last year might have had its top D and F on an NHL roster and perform terribly. Not an accurate reflection or tournament. These annoying "best on best" purists shouldn't be bothering with international hockey at all unless it's the OGs with NHL players to avoid their own hypocrisy.

Regarding the US, I think their depth is actually fairly mediocre past the first few sets of A, B and C teams. They usually send a D level roster, worst for them than Canada relative to their best players. I'm not surprised a team made up of top Euros could beat a group of American NHL 3rd-4th liners and AHLers time and time again. You're kidding yourselves if you think the NHL literally has the best 900 hockey players on the planet, I think the bottom third/quartile has a few interchangeable players (i.e. "replacement level") with the best of the rest of the world leagues. Look at how many lower tier NHL players end up going to Europe and - while being very good there - not necessarily all-stars.

In a true best on best with their absolute top players (i.e. not stupidly handicapped by some made up U23 North American team) the US has a legitimate claim to possibly being #2.

You haven't been paying attention. The U.S. has actually sent some quality teams the past several years. Just can't seem to get over the semi-final hump.

 

[snipes]

Can you name another sport where the fans are more into the Junior title than the senior event?

For example. I'm Czech and we just won the French Open GIRLS title (eg. junior) and I thought it was great. However, I don't think it means much unless that girl becomes a pro and starts winning there (note, we won the women's title too and doubles.lol).
I can't tell you who won the volleyball junior world championships. The basketball ones? The soccer ones (and I know they have a lot of big tourneys).

It's a hockey thing and mostly a Canadian hockey fan thing where the 2nd biggest title appears to be the junior one (after a best on best).

Not knocking, it's been like this forever but can you name another sports fanbase that is like this? I can't.

The time of year is a major factor, people are together with their families. There is a strong custom for hockey tournaments in Canada around the holiday time as well historically as @Gold Standard pointed out.

Plus, it's freezing cold outside in 99% of the country and outdoor rinks are packed at this time. It's just a good time for playing hockey and people have some time off for holiday's. The NHL season is well underway, it’s hockey time in Canada and really the rest of the hockey world at this time.

Not to mention, the hockey is just damn good hockey. I think the consensus is best-on-best Olympics > WJC > WHC in terms of importance in Canada.

Bob McKenize waxed poetically on the topic in this video, and he's absolutely correct.

 

[ORRFForever]

Not to mention, the hockey is just damn good hockey.

^This.^

 

[Jumptheshark]

As I have stated several times. The worlds are not on the top of many Canadian or American players list of things to do. I know that Team Canada and the IIHF used encourage players to bring their wives or other family members and treat it like a two week holiday for them. More often than not, both Canada and the US have to beg players to come over sometimes.

 

[Mestaruus]

It is weird that there hasn't been even one gold for USA in almost forever now. Switzerland will win gold before USA at this rate or GER.

 

[AZ Caps Fan]

Nope, can't say that I am.

 

[Lambo]

Let's use the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the break-up of Czechoslovakia as the beginning of the "modern era" in world hockey, since that really changed the landscape of world hockey.

Country	Gold	Silver	Bronze	Total
Canada	8	6	1	15
Czechia	6	1	5	12
Sweden	5	6	7	18
Russia	5	3	5	13
Finland	3	8	3	14
Slovakia	1	2	1	4
Switzerland	0	2	0	2
US	0	0	6	6

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I am one of those rare Canadians who follows this tournament regularly - have done so since the early 1980s. So I would have seen the US lose quarter or semifinal games with regularity in that time. (I will also note that I typically watch games with the sound off so I wouldn't have heard if commentators have mentioned this.) It's kind of stunning to see this written down, given that the US has been among the world powers in the sport since the mid 1990s, that they haven't won a semifinal game in the tournament's history.

Canada's attitude to the world men's tournament has been spotty, we can admit. While we typically send a good team to the tournament, it's rare that we don't hear of very good players refusing to participate despite being available. But the US record should be an embarrassment to US players. What will it take to change the attitude so the US starts sending teams capable of actually getting to the final?

Sorry Finland won 9 silver.

 

[member 305909]

It has been the general opinion that in the North-American professional sports leagues the worst team is better than the best team of the second best league in the world.

However, is that really so? Is Buffalo better than the KHL-champions? (I have no idea who the current KHL-champions are as I'm not interested at all on that league)

 

[MeHateHe]

It has been the general opinion that in the North-American professional sports leagues the worst team is better than the best team of the second best league in the world.

However, is that really so? Is Buffalo better than the KHL-champions? (I have no idea who the current KHL-champions are as I'm not interested at all on that league)

Even if that were so - and I don't think it is - the question is whether all the players in the NHL are better than all the players outside the NHL. That is unquestionably not true. There are NHL-calibre players in the KHL, in the Swedish league, in the Finnish league at least, and I suspect - without having looked too closely - in the Swiss and German leagues as well. Never mind the plethora of bottom-six NHLers who could easily be replaced, there are lots of players in those European leagues who could comfortably fill roles in the top six of a lot of NHL teams.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

I wouldn't, we win that tournament every year. It's kind of a crapshoot. The timing and tradition has enshrined it as something of a national pastime though, so I can see why it's more important to most.

It's funny how people can suspend the importance of "best on best" to them - really, age limited players is pretty arbitrary, and the truly top players don't get released due to NHL contracts, and then cry foul WHCs aren't best on best. A nation's best players could have just aged out that year by chance and get destroyed, and last year might have had its top D and F on an NHL roster and perform terribly. Not an accurate reflection or tournament. These annoying "best on best" purists shouldn't be bothering with international hockey at all unless it's the OGs with NHL players to avoid their own hypocrisy.

Regarding the US, I think their depth is actually fairly mediocre past the first few sets of A, B and C teams. They usually send a D level roster, worst for them than Canada relative to their best players. I'm not surprised a team made up of top Euros could beat a group of American NHL 3rd-4th liners and AHLers time and time again. You're kidding yourselves if you think the NHL literally has the best 900 hockey players on the planet, I think the bottom third/quartile has a few interchangeable players (i.e. "replacement level") with the best of the rest of the world leagues. Look at how many lower tier NHL players end up going to Europe and - while being very good there - not necessarily all-stars.

In a true best on best with their absolute top players (i.e. not stupidly handicapped by some made up U23 North American team) the US has a legitimate claim to possibly being #2.

What an absolutely brutally awful take. Just another obligatory annual thread of how the US doesn’t take this tournament serious. And hockey fans across the pond don’t like it.

 

[Czechboy]

What an absolutely brutally awful take. Just another obligatory annual thread of how the US doesn’t take this tournament serious. And hockey fans across the pond don’t like it.

I see the argument all the time...

On one post in a different section:

The US has the best program in the world, the best players, the best depth and will overtake Canada soon as the world superpower in hockey

Same day, a post during the world hockey championshiops on the US team:

We don't care about this tournament, our best aren't there

FTR... I think the don't care does apply to citizens living in Omaha, Nebraska for instance... or Oklahoma. Sure, I get people there may not be watching. However, you can't tell me these guys and coaches are flying over the Europe and simply don't care. Why go then? They are all rich, they can fly to Europe and go wherever they want with their friends and family. Patrick Kane has gone several years in a row... am I to believe he's doing this because he doesn't care? US has been sending stronger and stronger rosters pre covid (I posted a few of them earlier)... a lot of good players are showing up.

Having said that, I have no idea why the US hasn't won a gold since 96 and at any level. I'm pretty sure the only other gold before 96 is 1980. So 2 golds since 1980... no idea. I think it's an amazing program. Imagine if they could get it more popular in more than 5 or 6 States? Or if they did a better job of integrating more of their diverse population?

 

[Czechboy]

o could comfortably fill roles in the top six of a lot of NHL teams.

Can you name a few?

For years they have mentioned the 'best player not in the NHL' and almost always that guy comes over and struggles. Jiri Dopita was considered this. Roman Cervenka was considered this. Jan Kovar was not but he was a high end Euro and bounced to 2 AHL clubs before returning home to lead the Swiss league in scoring. Those are the Czech examples.. ooops, forgot about Jiri Sekac who was also sought after.

I guess Kubalik left the Swiss league and established himself as a Top 6 player.. so there is one example.

I agree about Panarin and Kaprisov. How many more of those are in Europe right now?

 

[Joe Zanussi]

I’m a USA hockey fan and I don’t care about this tourney at all. I definitely will watch a game if I bump into one but I’m not looking for it. I don’t know why….it’s just that way.

if we started winning, I’m guessing I’d get more interested. That seems reasonable and likely for sure.

I’d imagine some Canadian fans feel somewhat similar about the U18 Worlds

 

[ORRFForever]

I’m a USA hockey fan and I don’t care about this tourney at all. I definitely will watch a game if I bump into one but I’m not looking for it. I don’t know why….it’s just that way.

As a Canadian, I feel the same way. It is fun at the end (assuming Canada is in it) but, as I have said many times, it is too long and played too often.

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

Barring this pandemic this is the best tournament to watch and attend. And if you are Hockey fan and don't attend this tournament it's quite sad to see and you can not call yourself a fan of the game. Canada is always stacked with great elite players and it's honestly only the us that makes an excuse.

The best part is actually there are no Americans at the tourneys and generally everyone wants them to lose. It's a beautiful tournament , great Hockey, beautiful atmosphere and no Americans. Literally can't ask for more at an international tournament.