Salary Cap: Anybody still crying about Reilly Smith

[bb_fan]

You are the one that said he was grossly overpaid. But you can't back it out.

Unless you can tell me which 24y forward who had a 20g-50pts under his belt got extended for much less than 3.4M, you arje wrong.

He's grossly over paid.

Deal with it.

 

[Jean_Jacket41]

He's grossly over paid.

Deal with it.

If you say so.

 

[BadBruins]

And if we traded him or let him walk the same posters would be *****ing about how we don't retain young talent

He had arbitration rights this summer as well. The Bruins were fortunate they even had the opportunity to hard ball Krug and Smith the previous season in the first place. Those who don't believe there was an agreement in place prior to them signing for dirt cheap deals in 2014 are being naive. You think it's a coincidence that Krug and Smith signed on the same date in September and March?

Coyle - 3.2 Million - 23 years old - Career high 12 goals/35 points

Ennis - 4.6 Million - 25 years old - Career high 21 goals/49 points

Eller - 3.5 Million - 25 years old - Career high 12 goals/30 points

Gallagher - 3.75 Million - 23 years old - Career high - 24 goals/47 points

Bailey - 3.3 Million - 25 years old - Career high 16 goals/44 points

Atkinson - 3.5 Million - 25 years old - Career high 22 goals/ 40 points

Bjugstad - 4.1 Million - 22 years old - Career high 24 goals/44 points

None of these players have ever hit 50 points or 25 goals.... Yeah grossly overpaid. Grass is always greener on the other side.

 

[FROMSHORETOCHARA]

Yes still crying. He had streaky year 1 and terrible year 2, I don't believe in beating players up but they could have pushed for lower deal and used leverage. I guess only exception is if they signed him to trade him. I'd strongly prefer to trade smith but I wouldn't give him away. He has some skill. But if he stays it should b for far less than 3 plus million per

 

[ThorntonFightClub*]

Yes still crying. He had streaky year 1 and terrible year 2, I don't believe in beating players up but they could have pushed for lower deal and used leverage. I guess only exception is if they signed him to trade him. I'd strongly prefer to trade smith but I wouldn't give him away. He has some skill. But if he stays it should b for far less than 3 plus million per

I swear you people sound like my grandmother when she complains about the price of milk

 

[FROMSHORETOCHARA]

I swear you people sound like my grandmother when she complains about the price of milk

Does your grandmother think Reilly smith is a nice boy or is it the 13 goals, average skating and size, and average defense ....at best...., that makes you such a fan?

 

[reillysmith38]

If there's one positive from the last season it's that he has greatly improved his defensive play.

He's picked up a lot from watching Bergeron, and it really showed last year. He was honestly VERY good backchecking and using his stickwork. He was on par with Marchand's capability defensively in my opinion. Maybe this is why he was terrible on offense.

I'm not biased at all whatsoever from my username. I just picked a random bruins player when I joined.

 

[FROMSHORETOCHARA]

If there's one positive from the last season it's that he has greatly improved his defensive play.

He's picked up a lot from watching Bergeron, and it really showed last year. He was honestly VERY good backchecking and using his stickwork. He was on par with Marchand's capability defensively in my opinion. Maybe this is why he was terrible on offense.

I'm not biased at all whatsoever from my username. I just picked a random bruins player when I joined.

Well u r certainly entitled to your opinion and defense is hard to quantify but I really don't consider him a plus player defensively and nowhere near as good as Marshmont. He can shoot so if he stays I hope he utilizes that skill.

 

[Jean_Jacket41]

He had arbitration rights this summer as well. The Bruins were fortunate they even had the opportunity to hard ball Krug and Smith the previous season in the first place. Those who don't believe there was an agreement in place prior to them signing for dirt cheap deals in 2014 are being naive. You think it's a coincidence that Krug and Smith signed on the same date in September and March?

Coyle - 3.2 Million - 23 years old - Career high 12 goals/35 points

Ennis - 4.6 Million - 25 years old - Career high 21 goals/49 points

Eller - 3.5 Million - 25 years old - Career high 12 goals/30 points

Gallagher - 3.75 Million - 23 years old - Career high - 24 goals/47 points

Bailey - 3.3 Million - 25 years old - Career high 16 goals/44 points

Atkinson - 3.5 Million - 25 years old - Career high 22 goals/ 40 points

Bjugstad - 4.1 Million - 22 years old - Career high 24 goals/44 points

None of these players have ever hit 50 points or 25 goals.... Yeah grossly overpaid. Grass is always greener on the other side.

But I was told he was grossly overpaid??? Shouldn't that count for something?

Can't beleive these facts. Bruins should have signed him for much less.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

so Stone just signed for a 3.5m cap hit and Zibanejad for 2.625m. Great we'll never hear the end of this from Lonnie.

Not sure what their agents were thinking. Zibanejad easily could have gotten 3.5 if he squeezed them. Stone only has the one big year under his belt but probably could have gotten 4m if he wanted. Anyone know if these guys were arbitration eligible?

As for Stone, I could see him having a "sophmore slump". I don't expect him to sustain his over 16% shooting percentage. His year was a little like Smith's first year with the Bruins.

 

[LSCII]

so Stone just signed for a 3.5m cap hit and Zibanejad for 2.625m. Great we'll never hear the end of this from Lonnie.

Not sure what their agents were thinking. Zibanejad easily could have gotten 3.5 if he squeezed them. Stone only has the one big year under his belt but probably could have gotten 4m if he wanted. Anyone know if these guys were arbitration eligible?

As for Stone, I could see him having a "sophmore slump". I don't expect him to sustain his over 16% shooting percentage. His year was a little like Smith's first year with the Bruins.

Again, to me what other guys got or didn't get is irrelevant. It makes very little difference to my opinion on what Smith has been here. I'd even go so far as to say it doesn't matter whether he got $3.45 or $2 mill per, he's still been wildly inconsistent as a player over his time here. That's all I've been saying. He had a great first half of one season, and he's been in a slump ever since (which if it's lasted a year and a half, is it really a slump?). That alone makes his number something I'm not comfortable with, regardless of what other guys signed for with other teams.

Great price for Zib though. That's a bargain of a deal for the Senators.

 

[mikelvl]

I swear you people sound like my grandmother when she complains about the price of milk

If you'd listen to your grandmother more, you'd find a nice girl and stay off these seedy chatrooms!!

 

[Stone Clode]

Again, to me what other guys got or didn't get is irrelevant. It makes very little difference to my opinion on what Smith has been here. I'd even go so far as to say it doesn't matter whether he got $3.45 or $2 mill per, he's still been wildly inconsistent as a player over his time here. That's all I've been saying. He had a great first half of one season, and he's been in a slump ever since (which if it's lasted a year and a half, is it really a slump?). That alone makes his number something I'm not comfortable with, regardless of what other guys signed for with other teams.

Great price for Zib though. That's a bargain of a deal for the Senators.

No Lonnie, shut up, you're wrong! Stop it!

Seriously, the lack of the ability to have a contrarian opinion on this board is shocking. Unless it is the popular opinion, you seem to get massacred by the masses. 'NO, THERE IS ONLY ONE OPINION ON PLAYER X. ANY OTHER OPINION IS WRONG!'

You're accused of crying and whining and sounding like somebody's grandmother all because somebody doesn't agree with you. I didn't know this was the politics forum.

 

[ThorntonFightClub*]

He had arbitration rights this summer as well. The Bruins were fortunate they even had the opportunity to hard ball Krug and Smith the previous season in the first place. Those who don't believe there was an agreement in place prior to them signing for dirt cheap deals in 2014 are being naive. You think it's a coincidence that Krug and Smith signed on the same date in September and March?

Coyle - 3.2 Million - 23 years old - Career high 12 goals/35 points

Ennis - 4.6 Million - 25 years old - Career high 21 goals/49 points

Eller - 3.5 Million - 25 years old - Career high 12 goals/30 points

Gallagher - 3.75 Million - 23 years old - Career high - 24 goals/47 points

Bailey - 3.3 Million - 25 years old - Career high 16 goals/44 points

Atkinson - 3.5 Million - 25 years old - Career high 22 goals/ 40 points

Bjugstad - 4.1 Million - 22 years old - Career high 24 goals/44 points

None of these players have ever hit 50 points or 25 goals.... Yeah grossly overpaid. Grass is always greener on the other side.

Drop the mic, walk away

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

No Lonnie, shut up, you're wrong! Stop it!

Seriously, the lack of the ability to have a contrarian opinion on this board is shocking. Unless it is the popular opinion, you seem to get massacred by the masses. 'NO, THERE IS ONLY ONE OPINION ON PLAYER X. ANY OTHER OPINION IS WRONG!'

You're accused of crying and whining and sounding like somebody's grandmother all because somebody doesn't agree with you. I didn't know this was the politics forum.

completely dismissing the other side of the argument isn't exactly fair either.

Lonnie insists that what other guys get is irrelevant, but that's not true at all. comparables in determining an NHL players value are a very real thing, especially when you consider they are used heavily in arbitration cases. If Smith had gone to arbitration then the bulk of the data the arbitrator would have used to set his number would have come from exactly the types of players listed above. So to say "i don't care what anyone else makes, i hate this contract!" is an opinion that is just willfully ignoring the reality of how NHL market prices work.

and nobody is picking on Lonnie. He brings it on himself by making statements like "he's grossly overpaid" and then offering zero data to back that up even in the face of tons of data to the contrary. in any case it's ironic that you jump to his defense now when I was just joking with him in my last post anyway.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Again, to me what other guys got or didn't get is irrelevant. It makes very little difference to my opinion on what Smith has been here. I'd even go so far as to say it doesn't matter whether he got $3.45 or $2 mill per, he's still been wildly inconsistent as a player over his time here. That's all I've been saying. He had a great first half of one season, and he's been in a slump ever since (which if it's lasted a year and a half, is it really a slump?). That alone makes his number something I'm not comfortable with, regardless of what other guys signed for with other teams.

Great price for Zib though. That's a bargain of a deal for the Senators.

did my emoji not show for you or something?

 

[ThorntonFightClub*]

No Lonnie, shut up, you're wrong! Stop it!

Seriously, the lack of the ability to have a contrarian opinion on this board is shocking. Unless it is the popular opinion, you seem to get massacred by the masses. 'NO, THERE IS ONLY ONE OPINION ON PLAYER X. ANY OTHER OPINION IS WRONG!'

You're accused of crying and whining and sounding like somebody's grandmother all because somebody doesn't agree with you. I didn't know this was the politics forum.

There's a difference between having a different opinion and having one not based on facts.

Fact is the pay scale for players is ever increasing as the cap rises

 

[DNE3]

There's a difference between having a different opinion and having one not based on facts.
Fact is the pay scale for players is ever increasing as the cap rises

The other fact is they didn't have to automatically resign Smith, not indispensable. Either Griffith/Ferlin could have produced similar numbers on RW if inserted at top of lineup full-time, and for a fraction of the cost; after all, Smith was a minor leaguer himself in his old Dallas days. Saving face on the Seguin deal was the shadow always looking over Chiarelli's shoulder.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

The other fact is they didn't have to automatically resign Smith, not indispensable. Either Griffith/Ferlin could have produced similar numbers on RW if inserted at top of lineup full-time, and for a fraction of the cost. Saving face on the Seguin deal was the shadow always looking over Chiarelli's shoulder.

he was an RFA and arbitration elligible. Are you suggesting they should have simply walked away and got nothing in return for him? That would be the definition of bad asset management.

His contract is a slight overpayment but as seen by the many comparables around the league he is definitely tradeable.

 

[Stone Clode]

I understand what the pay scale of the league is. I understand that for what Smith has done in total, he's getting paid right around where guys that do what he does get paid at. The problem is that with the cap situation that the Bruins are in they can't afford to hand out these contracts, especially if they aren't willing/aren't able to deal the other bad ones that they have. These other teams can afford to give the Atkinsons and the like those deals comfortably because they can afford to. The Bruins cannot keep handing out these contracts because its exactly what got them into this situation in the first place. Every example that BadBruins gave (with the exception of Coyle) were examples of teams that were in good financial shape to do so.

The problem is that people want the Bruins to sign everybody at market value. That's exactly what gets you in cap jail. If you want to keep guys like Bergeron and Krejci and Rask and Lucic for 7 million, you can't give the Reilly Smiths and the Chris Kelly's of the world at 3.5 million. You can have one or the other. That's what the contending teams realize. They are willing to pay their high end guys the high end dollars but at the expense of losing the middle of the roster guys and allowing them to restock through the draft. The Bruins have handcuffed themselves with these contracts because they couldn't draft well enough to let those guys go.

In hindsight, it makes more sense to me why the Seguin deal happened. I didn't like it, but it makes more sense. The Bruins had to mortgage off one of their strongest pieces in order to get the middle of the roster guys that they couldn't develop themselves.

The reason they won the cup originally is because they were able to develop their own guys. The right guys. Their inability to do that post cup win is what lost Chiarelli his job, forced him into situations where he had to extend Smith and the like where he didn't have the room for it, the Iginla situation, etc. Drafting is at the crux of this whole issue, and will truly be the only way the Bruins dig themselves out of a hole. That, and a couple of creative trades.

 

[DNE3]

he was an RFA and arbitration elligible. Are you suggesting they should have simply walked away and got nothing in return for him? That would be the definition of bad asset management.
His contract is a slight overpayment but as seen by the many comparables around the league he is definitely tradeable.

Have they as yet gotten anything in return for Soderberg? Or is that not an example of simply walking away from a better player even.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

I understand what the pay scale of the league is. I understand that for what Smith has done in total, he's getting paid right around where guys that do what he does get paid at. The problem is that with the cap situation that the Bruins are in they can't afford to hand out these contracts, especially if they aren't willing/aren't able to deal the other bad ones that they have. These other teams can afford to give the Atkinsons and the like those deals comfortably because they can afford to. The Bruins cannot keep handing out these contracts because its exactly what got them into this situation in the first place. Every example that BadBruins gave (with the exception of Coyle) were examples of teams that were in good financial shape to do so.

The problem is that people want the Bruins to sign everybody at market value. That's exactly what gets you in cap jail. If you want to keep guys like Bergeron and Krejci and Rask and Lucic for 7 million, you can't give the Reilly Smiths and the Chris Kelly's of the world at 3.5 million. You can have one or the other. That's what the contending teams realize. They are willing to pay their high end guys the high end dollars but at the expense of losing the middle of the roster guys and allowing them to restock through the draft. The Bruins have handcuffed themselves with these contracts because they couldn't draft well enough to let those guys go.

In hindsight, it makes more sense to me why the Seguin deal happened. I didn't like it, but it makes more sense. The Bruins had to mortgage off one of their strongest pieces in order to get the middle of the roster guys that they couldn't develop themselves.

The reason they won the cup originally is because they were able to develop their own guys. The right guys. Their inability to do that post cup win is what lost Chiarelli his job, forced him into situations where he had to extend Smith and the like where he didn't have the room for it, the Iginla situation, etc. Drafting is at the crux of this whole issue, and will truly be the only way the Bruins dig themselves out of a hole. That, and a couple of creative trades.

I feel like what you and others keep failing to understand is that the Bruins are not stuck with Smith. The whole point of pointing out that his contract is right around market value is to show that he can be traded. Lots of teams have shown they are willing to pay that kind of money to a guy with Smith's resume. There is a market for guys like Smith and the Bruins did not "grossly overpay" him which means if he ends up being the odd man out then there will be teams who will take him.

Also think the bolded statement is really unfair but I don't want to bother with arguing something that should be obvious. Kelly =/= Smith.

 

[LouJersey]

The other fact is they didn't have to automatically resign Smith, not indispensable. Either Griffith/Ferlin could have produced similar numbers on RW if inserted at top of lineup full-time, and for a fraction of the cost; after all, Smith was a minor leaguer himself in his old Dallas days. Saving face on the Seguin deal was the shadow always looking over Chiarelli's shoulder.

He played 45 games in the AHL so now he's a minor leaguer.,,classic..

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Have they as yet gotten anything in return for Soderberg? Or is that not an example of simply walking away from a better player even.

do you not understand the difference between UFA and RFA? Nobody walks away from RFA's anymore because it's idiotic to do so.

Anyway Soderberg is irrelevant to this discussion because I'm not saying they were right to walk away from Soderberg. You're basically putting words in my mouth. They should have traded him if they were not going to sign him.

 

[LouJersey]

Have they as yet gotten anything in return for Soderberg? Or is that not an example of simply walking away from a better player even.

Isn't he a UFA?