ShadowDuck
Captain Anaheim
Article about the Lightning ticket sale:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/tampa-...s--opposing-logos-for-playoffs-001003954.html
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/tampa-...s--opposing-logos-for-playoffs-001003954.html
Any way of preventing opposing team fans from taking over the Honda Center?
- Thread starter BearFlag
- Start date
Ducks DVM
sowcufucakky
the fraction was almost 100% for me last year, I certainly did not pay less than 90% value for the seats.
maybe i just got robbed, who knows
and if the populations of anaheim and winnipeg somehow switched overnight in some weird outer limits fashion, the ducks would sell out. there is a ton of competition for dollars here, certainly more than they have.
I've also argued on here that the ducks deserve a better fan base and that they should think about moving. it was about as popular as saying that i wouldnt be renewing my season tickets for this year on this forumi mean imagine this scouting department with the resources of a toronto and no more internal budgets, it would be great for them. i would miss going to a few games a year but the franchise does deserve better than this fanbase, and its not really the fans fault either, the market is insanely saturated down here and its a big reason we lost two nfl teams.
They started putting the actual ticket price on the ticket last year but that's not what a season ticket holder is actually charged for. It's not even close. Again, that's how tickets immediately appear on Stubhub for 50-60% of face value.
The "other stuff to do" argument is nonsense to me. It isn't like there's less to do at 7pm in the vast majority of cities with NHL teams. Or period for that matter. (That cost money - I always laugh when people bring up the beach like that has some huge impact on their discretionary spending). When the team is bad, those cities don't sell out, but when they play like the Ducks do, they do. LA lost the NFL because the coliseum is an abysmal place to watch football - it's too big to sell out, the sight lines are horrible, and it's beyond uncomfortable. People here just aren't good sports fans for any sport outside of maybe the Dodgers, the area is actually less saturated with sports teams then the other major cites are.
TheJoeMan
In Bob We Trust
Man I couldn't fabricate a more accurate and succinct portrayal of the average fan and why we don't fill our building. You don't get your bang for your buck? Do you like watching hockey live? The perks are you go to every game. If you're a big enough fan you make it work. You split tickets with your buddy, you get a mini-plan, you carpool with other fans, whatever. If none of that is reasonable to do you are just a casual fan, which is fine. But there's a lot more of you than are of me and the many others who have season tickets and go all of the time.
We have the sixth cheapest season tickets and our team is a perennial contender. It's a joke that we don't have more season ticket holders. The Kings are several years deep on a waiting list for season tickets. The Jets had to sell-out five years worth of season tickets and they did it in an hour. The only way you become a new season ticket holder in Toronto is if someone dies. Basically, people don't really give a **** about this team, at least not enough. We're lucky we've been successful and have amazing owners otherwise we'd be one of those franchise on the perpetual relocation watch.
mightyquack
eggplant and jade or bust
- Apr 28, 2010
- 26,440
- 5,205
#movetheteam
#ducksfanssuck
#whycantwehavealargefanbaselikefranchiseswith40yearsofhistory
It's almost like.........Anaheim is a small market team?! Amazing!
PS This season is the 3rd highest average attendance since being re-branded the Ducks, and the highest in 6 years.
#ducksfanssuck
#whycantwehavealargefanbaselikefranchiseswith40yearsofhistory
It's almost like.........Anaheim is a small market team?! Amazing!
PS This season is the 3rd highest average attendance since being re-branded the Ducks, and the highest in 6 years.
Ducks DVM
sowcufucakky
All true. It's also true that even though they've been in first place in the West for seems like all but two weeks out of the last three seasons they still don't have an automatic sellout every game, and that's sorta embarrassing.
They're better about marketing the last two years, but the NHL as a whole sucks at marketing to new fans. They're doing it right building up the youth leagues though, it should start to pay off in ~10 years. We just need to steal back some of the California bandwagon and get trendy again until then.
mightyquack
eggplant and jade or bust
- Apr 28, 2010
- 26,440
- 5,205
Always going to have a tough time when you have a neighbour up the road with 40+ years of history, and 2 cups in the last 4 years.
End of the day, we have 98.1% capacity filled percentage per home game which is far from terrible. Yeah, it would be nice to be 100%+ but that's not going to happen unless we get another Cup (in the short term at least).
I agree with the bolded. It's a shame it took so long to focus on youth hockey, but better late then never.
Ducks DVM
sowcufucakky
The thing is - it's a pain in the ass to go to a Kings game for a huge percentage of the populace out here. Anaheim is a much easier proposition.
I'd argue that for being the top regular season team in the West who plays a style of hockey that is actually entertaining to watch for three straight seasons that anything under 100% is a terrible number. It's one of the smallest arenas in the league, with one of the lowest prices for a game.
mightyquack
eggplant and jade or bust
- Apr 28, 2010
- 26,440
- 5,205
LA Kings have the 'prestige' that Anaheim does not, I'm willing to bet bandwagoners aren't too concerned about the brand of hockey as long as it's a winner even if it's a longer drive out.
I think calling anything under 100% a terrible number is a hyperbole given the market. I would say 98.1% is still a strong attendance record for a small market team when having to compete against a more historic, and as of recently successful franchise especially over the last handful of years in a non-hockey market.
Yeah, I'd love Anaheim to be at 100%+ but as I said earlier it's not happening unless there's a Cup win - and then sustained success after that.
Ducks DVM
sowcufucakky
There are easily 1,000,000 people within 15 minutes of the Honda Center. Probably 3-5 times that amount within 30 minutes. They need to find 17,174. A huge percentage of those people simply cannot attend a Kings game due to traffic. And it's not like the Kings were a huge success for the decade before 2007. They have their Gretzky and prior era fans, and then the people who've been watching hockey for 5 years.
I agree that's what it would take, but I also think there's no excuse for it in an area this populated.
TheJoeMan
In Bob We Trust
The argument isn't about filling the building, we're clearly doing that, it's about filling it with Ducks fans. We've had 21 sellouts this year including the home opener which always sells out and Teemu night. Here are some of the teams we happened to play in those games: LA(three games), San Jose(two games), Chicago(two games), NYR, Detroit, Montreal, and Pittsburgh. We also sold out against Vancouver, Calgary and Edmonton seeing as it's easier and cheaper for their fans to fly down and catch a game here rather than in their home buildings that are sold out every single game. We started to sell out games recently but that tends to happen this time of the year when we're at the top of the league (which I welcome. I just wish the bandwagoners would stick around). What's sad is we didn't even sell out games against Philly and Boston and the Pond was full of their fans.
We have one of the smallest fanbases in the league despite having a team in a very populated area. Sure the Kings have been around for a while but we've had over 20 years to cultivate fans. I blame Disney quite a bit for this since they had a chance to grab all of those early fans forever and they blew it by not spending the money to ice a competitive team and just rely on their two superstars to win games. The Samueli's are doing an amazing job growing the game here and I have faith Orange County will embrace the Ducks as much as they embrace the Angels in time. But that doesn't change the fact that a large portion of our fanbase are casual observers who will absolutely jump ship if this team starts playing like crap. Look how bad our attendance took a hit once we started missing the playoffs. Fanbases who truly care about their team don't do that.
Ducks DVM
sowcufucakky
Everything is spot on except for the bolded. Every city except Montreal or Toronto (and possibly the Rangers) has had crap attendance when they routinely miss the playoffs. People forget just how abysmal the attendance in Boston and Chicago were not so very long ago.
mightyquack
eggplant and jade or bust
- Apr 28, 2010
- 26,440
- 5,205
- What percentage are hockey fans?
- What percentage are Anaheim fans and what percentage are fans of other teams?
Yep, so they can't attend a Kings game - that's fine but what should make them attend a Ducks game instead? As I said, Anaheim simply doesn't have the prestige that LA does, and even if their close to the Anaheim arena it's still 'going out of their way' as it's to see a team play they aren't interested in.
It doesn't matter how successful the Kings were pre 2007, they still had a huge fanbase for a team that was pretty much a failure and that fanbase has only grown over the last 8 years. Kings (unfortunately) were, are and will be a bigger franchise then Anaheim for the foreseeable future - fact of NHL life.
I don't really have anymore to add, don't think attendance is that big of an issue especially compared to other NHL teams. Let me know when Anaheim is having attendance figures like at the turn of the century over the course of a number of seasons - then I'll start to get worried.
BearFlag
Registered User
Exactly. I think the biggest issue with growing our fanbase is not the underlining area population but the fact that we have a well established Stanley Cup winning team in our area competing to get potential fans.
When I go to hockey sticktimes & clinics IN Orange County (KHS, Lake Forest, etc.) there are usually notable groups of Kings fans, who are much more vocal in the locker room (with their huge LA Kings stickers on their bags, shirts and trucks). Then there are a few Ducks fans like myself who aren't as "noticeable" at the clinic, if that makes sense. In fact, in the many times I've attended sticktimes or clinics, I have yet to see one big group of 20 something guys who are all Ducks fans but I have seen several groups who are Kings fans. It's sad to see this in OC hockey rinks.
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I find it hard to believe its cheaper to fly down here, get hotels, pay for meals and all other expenses, and still get tickets to the game, than it is to just pay for tickets in your home country. I mean unless you stay at a disgusting motel I dont see how its cheaper. Youre looking at about a grand per person all things considered and air fare from Canada to So Cal isnt cheap.
TheJoeMan
In Bob We Trust
The guy who has the season seats behind mine only has them to resell and whenever a Canadian team is in town they snatch them up. They've told me this themselves. A lot of them drive from Vancouver. Next time the Canucks, Oilers, or Flames are in town look around the parking lot and see how many cars and motorhomes have BC and Alberta plates.
perrygetzanother
Registered User
ducks face these battles:
1) work culture. people who can afford to be STH in this area generally have corporate jobs, and the work culture here is to work tons of overtime to get projects done. This is true for all of my friends who still live in the area, this isnt the UK where the time clock hits 8 hours and they drop their phones and immediately exit the building. time outside of work is precious for many of us.
2) competing entertainment venues do not always mean dollars. i love going to the beach and walking with the gf and just enjoying the coastline. i'm not spending money but i'm still driving away from home and to the coast and spending an hour or two there, similar to a hockey game. comparing the beach to a hockey game is valid because its a time investment which is pretty precious to most of us who are short on it.
3) there is no real hockey culture in socal to speak of, i grew up in OC and there was roller hockey until kids hit junior high level. hockey equipment is expensive, certainly moreso than basketball or soccer. football isnt played until highschool for most of us for that same reason.
4) getting to drive to honda center turns into a chore rather quickly with traffic. that is not enough reward for obligating myself to go to the games. there was no 50-60% discount on the season games when i got my tickets last year, does that mean i got flat out screwed? if so do tell, i'd love to call phil back and ask what kind of shenanigans he pulled.
oh and as for the coliseum being terrible, i guess that explains why usc's football program cant get any support or sell out that place right?
the fact is that west coast culture is not conducive to fanatical sports fandom, the nfl figured that out and left but seems to have forgotten again. why on earth do we expect this region to produce hardcore sports fans? there is stuff to do out here and thats always going to compete with any other entertainment products, tons of transplants and an infrastructure that will just make things harder. at least anaheim PD helps with the pain of exiting by shutting down the two way traffic around the stadium when games end.
bandwagon fans will of course go to the kings who have won the cups and have the longer history (not of success but the'yve been around) and they do a few things much much much better than the ducks do. i hate to say it but i love listening to the kings crew diagram plays and explain why stuff happens instead of ahlers and hayward saying "oh what a shot, what a stop, lol guys this is funny" ****. people who are interested in playing are going to gravitate towards those who share in depth knowledge of the game and dont constantly ***** about officials (i know ironic coming from me)
and if you want more bandwagon and casual fans then dont ***** at them when they dont renew season tickets but i dont come to the internet looking for warm fuzzies, and this board usually doesnt disappoint!
dittos on the vancouver fans coming down all the time, a guy said he could drive down to disneyland with his family, stay in his rv, catch the nucks/ducks game with his son (left the wife and daughter in the rv to rest) and then catch nucks/kings game and it would still be less than taking 4 of them to see a game in vancouver.
1) work culture. people who can afford to be STH in this area generally have corporate jobs, and the work culture here is to work tons of overtime to get projects done. This is true for all of my friends who still live in the area, this isnt the UK where the time clock hits 8 hours and they drop their phones and immediately exit the building. time outside of work is precious for many of us.
2) competing entertainment venues do not always mean dollars. i love going to the beach and walking with the gf and just enjoying the coastline. i'm not spending money but i'm still driving away from home and to the coast and spending an hour or two there, similar to a hockey game. comparing the beach to a hockey game is valid because its a time investment which is pretty precious to most of us who are short on it.
3) there is no real hockey culture in socal to speak of, i grew up in OC and there was roller hockey until kids hit junior high level. hockey equipment is expensive, certainly moreso than basketball or soccer. football isnt played until highschool for most of us for that same reason.
4) getting to drive to honda center turns into a chore rather quickly with traffic. that is not enough reward for obligating myself to go to the games. there was no 50-60% discount on the season games when i got my tickets last year, does that mean i got flat out screwed? if so do tell, i'd love to call phil back and ask what kind of shenanigans he pulled.
oh and as for the coliseum being terrible, i guess that explains why usc's football program cant get any support or sell out that place right?
the fact is that west coast culture is not conducive to fanatical sports fandom, the nfl figured that out and left but seems to have forgotten again. why on earth do we expect this region to produce hardcore sports fans? there is stuff to do out here and thats always going to compete with any other entertainment products, tons of transplants and an infrastructure that will just make things harder. at least anaheim PD helps with the pain of exiting by shutting down the two way traffic around the stadium when games end.
bandwagon fans will of course go to the kings who have won the cups and have the longer history (not of success but the'yve been around) and they do a few things much much much better than the ducks do. i hate to say it but i love listening to the kings crew diagram plays and explain why stuff happens instead of ahlers and hayward saying "oh what a shot, what a stop, lol guys this is funny" ****. people who are interested in playing are going to gravitate towards those who share in depth knowledge of the game and dont constantly ***** about officials (i know ironic coming from me)
and if you want more bandwagon and casual fans then dont ***** at them when they dont renew season tickets
but i dont come to the internet looking for warm fuzzies, and this board usually doesnt disappoint!dittos on the vancouver fans coming down all the time, a guy said he could drive down to disneyland with his family, stay in his rv, catch the nucks/ducks game with his son (left the wife and daughter in the rv to rest) and then catch nucks/kings game and it would still be less than taking 4 of them to see a game in vancouver.
Raccoon Jesus
Todd McLellan is an inside agent
I was just going to add this. Ducks are playing the long game here. Any of the youth teams I coach on either roller OR ice are getting much more Ducks marketing/promotions and are idolizing Ducks players. I think being a different generation helps; when a lot of us were growing up, there was only one team, then suddenly another one showed up; it really needed a generation of kids growing into it imo, and the next generation is getting hooked early.
Disagree on point three, I think it's grown immensely, and it's still got roots in roller hockey in some cases, but there are a lot more legitimate teams/options as well as culture here. It's not a hockey-obsessed market, don't get me wrong, but it's stepping up.
And yeah, the Canadian fans will do that whole road trip because it's cheaper; I remember before they jacked up prices there was a group of Vancouver fans who attended both Staples home games, stayed in the fancy hotel, went to disneyland, and went bar hopping at la live for cheaper than a ticket or two to their own game. It's gonna be tough to keep people away when you can make that big of a trip out of it, but it's different for the locals!
perrygetzanother
Registered User
let me clarify what i mean about the real hockey culture, because you're right it does actually exist. what i mean is you have to be a hockey fan and actively seek out any hockey culture in socal, it's not pervasive and accessible compared to other sports.
you might see ducks and kings advertising spread throughout certain parts of town but hockey leagues are pretty rare to see. you dont have to do the same level of searching to hear about the nfl, nba, mlb culture, hell even soccer gets more play than hockey. that stuff is pervasive here, hockey's sort of niche like mma, you can find tons of mma gyms around here if you just look for them. hockey would be similar.
in toronto i imagine that you couldnt escape hockey culture, much like you cant escape basketball culture in socal, or college football culture in alabama. it's just the way it is out here. i wouldnt expect a hockey team to succeed in alabama, i wouldnt expect an nfl team to succeed in edmonton. these arent condemnations of the sports, it's more of a regional thing. population density helps, sure, but its never going to be a pervasive thing here, at least not the ducks.
you might see ducks and kings advertising spread throughout certain parts of town but hockey leagues are pretty rare to see. you dont have to do the same level of searching to hear about the nfl, nba, mlb culture, hell even soccer gets more play than hockey. that stuff is pervasive here, hockey's sort of niche like mma, you can find tons of mma gyms around here if you just look for them. hockey would be similar.
in toronto i imagine that you couldnt escape hockey culture, much like you cant escape basketball culture in socal, or college football culture in alabama. it's just the way it is out here. i wouldnt expect a hockey team to succeed in alabama, i wouldnt expect an nfl team to succeed in edmonton. these arent condemnations of the sports, it's more of a regional thing. population density helps, sure, but its never going to be a pervasive thing here, at least not the ducks.
vavera4ka
Quack! Quack!
Maybe it's not cheaper, maybe it's the same, maybe a bit more, but it's a good excuse to take a short vacation to a place that has year round great weather, go to Universal, Disney, Knotts Berry, etc... and in the evening catch a good hockey game.
The party scene is better too.
And the food is not too bad either
Few years back I went to a game in Chicago (vs Nashville) and then flew to Anaheim and went to a game vs Kings. SRO tickets for that Nashville game in Chi were $45ish. Another time I went to see a game at United I was in the 2nd to last row. tickets were $85 per. Tickets to pretty good seats up in the 3rd level at Honda for Kings game were $36. At another point I sat behind home goal (row 4 or so) and it cost me 74 per.
And I'm sure tickets in Canada are much higher than in Chicago
onlyalad
The bounce
- Jan 13, 2008
- 7,163
- 993
I think, part of the reason, is the Ducks have a marketing issue. My wife is a huge Ducks fan (sigh) and in 2009 ish, I asked some Ducks fans what the Ducks were doing to keep fans from their cup run. The Kings have/had lots of events: Tip a King, rink visits, building playgrounds, Fan Fest, several poker nights, charity games. I know the Ducks do some as well and that's the stuff my wife likes to do. The response I got back, from fans, was the Ducks don't need gimmicks to get fans, they win. While that is true, it seems, SoCal fans want to feel like they are more than cash to the team. The Ducks need to create excitement year round. Not just for kids but for adults as well.
Another thing LA has the Ducks are now just getting: generations of fans. Kids, parents, grandparents being lifelong fans. The Ducks are trying to get the youngsters to be fans, so when they get older they will buy tickets.
Third thing is go to games. Not as much this year, but last year, there were many empty seats. I don't know if they were sold or not, just that they were empty. Last year for the Ducks Tampa game tickets on Stub hub were as low as $8 . By having people there it increases the excitement. People want to cheer and boo and have fun with a group.
Another thing LA has the Ducks are now just getting: generations of fans. Kids, parents, grandparents being lifelong fans. The Ducks are trying to get the youngsters to be fans, so when they get older they will buy tickets.
Third thing is go to games. Not as much this year, but last year, there were many empty seats. I don't know if they were sold or not, just that they were empty. Last year for the Ducks Tampa game tickets on Stub hub were as low as $8 . By having people there it increases the excitement. People want to cheer and boo and have fun with a group.
Ducks DVM
sowcufucakky
Here you go
http://ducks.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=44727
And a contest for two tickets to Fan Appreciation Night
http://hondacenter.turnkeysurveyor.com/se.ashx?s=705E3ECE206400E3
snarktacular
Registered User
- Aug 2, 2005
- 20,525
- 182
Sojourn
Registered User
- Nov 1, 2006
- 50,523
- 9,377
Dr Johnny Fever
Eggplant and Teal
I think a point that is being overlooked relative to the Kings attendance is the celebrity factor since moving to Staples. SoCal seems to idolize celebs and since moving to Staples the Kings have become much more known to the Hollywood crowd. Celebs are always seen at games. So now, in addition to idolizing celebs, it's also cool to be a Kings fan ('cause you favorite celeb is), even if you think a slap shot is some kind of new drink. Add that factor to the 2 cups in 3 years and it isn't hard to understand their attendance advantage.
TheJoeMan
In Bob We Trust
I think what the Kings have going for them more than anything lately is simply them being from LA. People who are Dodger fans or Laker fans or both are keen to jump on the bandwagon of an LA team once they become contenders and even more so when they're champions. I mean they already had a couple generations of fans anyway due to the Gretzkey years but as far as the influx of fans they've received the last three years it's simply an LA thing. People like wearing their gear and they honestly like the game. They just happen to jump on the Kings bandwagon because they're LA. It's hard to fight that. I don't think the celebrities attending the game has anything to do with it. If anything they demonstrate what I'm talking about. But random people following a hockey team because some celebrity shows up at the game just doesn't happen.
