Any talk about KHL changes by FHR ?

[Raptor1990]

I think creating 18 teams which will be balanced for winning Gagarin Cup is better idea then having 28 teams and of those only 16 competitive able just saying.

The rest of those teams should go to VHL.
Teams like Metallurg Nk, Severstal, Vityaz, Traktor, Dinamo Riga, Lada, Amur, Ugra, Spartak, Avtomobilist, Neftekhimik, Dinamo Minsk...
For better teams its literally easy to grab points from this teams.
All those better players of those mentioned teams should create 1-2 competitive teams.


KHL should not be some kind of NT farm of Russia.
VHL should be.

http://en.khl.ru/stat/teams/309/

Example: its clear that Metallurg Nk can`t be competitive. So why its in KHL ?

Click to read more...

 

[tobu]

I think creating 18 teams which will be balanced for winning Gagarin Cup is better idea then having 28 teams and of those only 16 competitive able just saying.

The rest of those teams should go to VHL.
Teams like Metallurg Nk, Severstal, Vityaz, Traktor, Dinamo Riga, Lada, Amur, Ugra, Spartak, Avtomobilist, Neftekhimik, Dinamo Minsk...
For better teams its literally easy to grab points from this teams.
All those better players of those mentioned teams should create 1-2 competitive teams.


KHL should not be some kind of NT farm of Russia.
VHL should be.

http://en.khl.ru/stat/teams/309/


Example: its clear that Metallurg Nk can`t be competitive. So why its in KHL ?

From your list I would omit non-Russian teams. Riga and Minsk are easily on Slovan's level just fyi.

 

[TommySalo]

I think creating 18 teams which will be balanced for winning Gagarin Cup is better idea then having 28 teams and of those only 16 competitive able just saying.

The rest of those teams should go to VHL.
Teams like Metallurg Nk, Severstal, Vityaz, Traktor, Dinamo Riga, Lada, Amur, Ugra, Spartak, Avtomobilist, Neftekhimik, Dinamo Minsk...
For better teams its literally easy to grab points from this teams.
All those better players of those mentioned teams should create 1-2 competitive teams.


KHL should not be some kind of NT farm of Russia.
VHL should be.

http://en.khl.ru/stat/teams/309/

Example: its clear that Metallurg Nk can`t be competitive. So why its in KHL ?

The league definitely needs teams with good fanbase such as Riga, Minsk, Spartak, Traktor, Amur. For example Dinamo Minsk has the highest attendance in the league and they are a solid team. Hopefully Riga will have a better team next year, I have huge respect for latvian ice hockey.
But I agree that Metallurg Nk, Severstal, Vityaz and Ugra could be replaced if there are better options/for example teams from Sweden, Switzerland, Germany, Czech Republic/.

 

[Raptor1990]

And when will Tretiak finally leave FHR ?
Is he some kind of permanent president ?

Pavel Bure, Bragin, Larionov understand a lot more modern hockey then Tretiak.

 

[vorky]

And when will Tretiak finally leave FHR ?
Is he some kind of permanent president ?

Pavel Bure, Bragin, Larionov understand a lot more modern hockey then Tretiak.

It is too early to judge (and I dont have as many informations as I would like to have), but FHR changed the structure of governing. Tretiak is still a president but governing body is Pravlenie with Arkady Rotenberg. They have been preparing strategy of developing of russian players. Should work since new season.

 

[hansomreiste]

I think creating 18 teams which will be balanced for winning Gagarin Cup is better idea then having 28 teams and of those only 16 competitive able just saying.

The rest of those teams should go to VHL.
Teams like Metallurg Nk, Severstal, Vityaz, Traktor, Dinamo Riga, Lada, Amur, Ugra, Spartak, Avtomobilist, Neftekhimik, Dinamo Minsk...

http://en.khl.ru/stat/teams/309/

Example: its clear that Metallurg Nk can`t be competitive. So why its in KHL ?

How long have you been following KHL for? Traktor was a Gagarin cup finalist not long ago. Yekaterinburg is a big city and Russians are doing their best to improve ice hockey in the region. Taking Avtomobilist out of KHL would be just stupid. Amur has been suffering for some time but they have one of the most faithful fanbase in the league, drawing 7K attendance almost every game, doesn't matter how good or bad they do. Dinamo Minsk's attendance and hockey culture is one of the best in whole Europe, not only in KHL. Neftehimik is a mediocre team. They are not good but not crappy either. Why leave them out?

Vityaz, Metallurg NK, Severstal, Spartak and Yugra may go but the rest should definitely stay. Lada recently moved to their new arena, specially built for KHL. No way they will leave the league in near future unless something really big & disastrous happens.

Moreover, having a 18-team league with such geographical division is not a good idea for KHL. In Sweden or Czech Republic, it can work; because teams are close to each other. On the other hand, traveling time and cost for KHL is huge. To make it viable, you must have at least 24 teams or so. As long as this is an Eurasian league, it should remain "big" and contain at least 24 teams. This is not hockey league of a small country.

Excluding five or six teams, every single team in KHL can compete for Gagarin cup with a few proper reinforcements and coach. You speak as if every team should be able to win it. There will be ONE champion, so being unable to have a good spot in regular season doesn't mean the team is bad. Neftehimik may never win it all but they are competitive for KHL level, for example.

 

[Jussi]

I think creating 18 teams which will be balanced for winning Gagarin Cup is better idea then having 28 teams and of those only 16 competitive able just saying.

The rest of those teams should go to VHL.
Teams like Metallurg Nk, Severstal, Vityaz, Traktor, Dinamo Riga, Lada, Amur, Ugra, Spartak, Avtomobilist, Neftekhimik, Dinamo Minsk...
For better teams its literally easy to grab points from this teams.
All those better players of those mentioned teams should create 1-2 competitive teams.


KHL should not be some kind of NT farm of Russia.
VHL should be.

http://en.khl.ru/stat/teams/309/

Example: its clear that Metallurg Nk can`t be competitive. So why its in KHL ?

Roman Rotenberg gave some vague comments about Jokerit future in KHL last week as well.

 

[Raptor1990]

Roman Rotenberg gave some vague comments about Jokerit future in KHL last week as well.

That's pretty understandable, that cost must be quite big.
Medvescak`s future will be pretty the same, I really don`t see any reason why KHL needs to feed NA mediocre players.
And Slovan well...

 

[Raptor1990]

Excluding five or six teams, every single team in KHL can compete for Gagarin cup with a few proper reinforcements and coach. You speak as if every team should be able to win it. There will be ONE champion, so being unable to have a good spot in regular season doesn't mean the team is bad. Neftehimik may never win it all but they are competitive for KHL level, for example.

Everything is as good as its weakest part. Do you know what does it mean ?
KHL needs to be competitive and not having 28 club of which 10-12 teams are made from B or C grade players which are unable to pass the puck to each other without losing it.
Even if they have fan base it absolutely brings nothing to be competitive.
Firstly they needs to be ready to play in KHL as a club ( players must be competitive )
And VHL is the right place. It would save a lot of money until then.

Flying over 1200-2000KM to play a pointless match which always end most likely 3:7, 5:0 result is pure non-sense.

 

[hansomreiste]

That's pretty understandable, that cost must be quite big.
Medvescak`s future will be pretty the same, I really don`t see any reason why KHL needs to feed NA mediocre players.
And Slovan well...

I am sure KHL needs Jokerit more than the Finnish team needs them. What will happen when oligarchs decide to stop feeding "mediocre NA players"? KHL without Medvescak, Slovan, Jokerit, Minsk, Riga... Do you think it will work better or bring in more money?

As has been proven many time so far, KHL is more than a sports organization. They would like to keep their influence on Baltic and Asian countries. Letting Jokerit, Riga and Minsk out would do nothing good for the future of KHL. Maybe Medvescak can be excluded as they can be sacrificed.

Everything is as good as its weakest part. Do you know what does it mean ?
KHL needs to be competitive and not having 28 club of which 10-12 teams are made from B or C grade players which are unable to pass the puck to each other without losing it.
Even if they have fan base it absolutely brings nothing to be competitive.
Firstly they needs to be ready to play in KHL as a club ( players must be competitive )
And VHL is the right place. It would save a lot of money until then.

Flying over 1200-2000KM to play a pointless match which always end most likely 3:7, 5:0 result is pure non-sense.

How many times did you see those teams lose by such big margins? I can perfectly understand if you don't want Metallurg NK in KHL but saying that they can't pass the puck or lose by big margins is very disrespectful and biased. Overall, Novokuznetsk has -1 average per game and out of 37 games lost in 47, 13 of them were in OT.

Some teams like NK consistently remain in bottom but this NEVER means auto-win for other teams. As I said, this "poor" Novokuznetsk snatched at least 1pt in 23 games of 47 total. This is bad but not as much as you say. There is no guarantee win in KHL but only some underdog teams, and this is the case with almost any sports organization. You can't expect all teams to be at the same level.

 

[Raptor1990]

I am sure KHL needs Jokerit more than the Finnish team needs them. What will happen when oligarchs decide to stop feeding "mediocre NA players"?

There will be almost none who will be competitive at scoring, look at productivity 35 year old Mozyakin and Radulov and then plenty of NA players, that's just pathetic it only shows how underdeveloped are the remaining Russian players.

Exception are rookies and young players at age 25 or bit below. (Even this is not true they should lead it)
Its just shame even someone from FHR said that.

And that's why they should stop feeding non-Russian players and start to develop young ones.
Only exceptions should be players like Brandon Bochenski etc.

And still not sure until when will KHL resist the Russian economy problems.
But if situation will go further with politics occasions it will be not for long.

 

[Peter25]

And when will Tretiak finally leave FHR ?
Is he some kind of permanent president ?

Pavel Bure, Bragin, Larionov understand a lot more modern hockey then Tretiak.

Don't let Larionov anywhere near the FHR!

 

[hansomreiste]

There will be almost none who will be competitive at scoring, look at productivity 35 year old Mozyakin and Radulov and then plenty of NA players, that's just pathetic it only shows how underdeveloped are the remaining Russian players.

Exception are rookies and young players at age 25 or bit below. (Even this is not true they should lead it)
Its just shame even someone from FHR said that.

And that's why they should stop feeding non-Russian players and start to develop young ones.
Only exceptions should be players like Brandon Bochenski etc.

And still not sure until when will KHL resist the Russian economy problems.
But if situation will go further with politics occasions it will be not for long.

I agree that Russia should produce more talents but is taking foreigners out of the picture right attitude? There has to be a balance with this. Until recently, there was a ruling in our football league, which forced Turkish clubs to have "some" Turkish players in starting eleven, I don't remember the exact number now. Luckily, this has been changed now, but Russia stil has this 6+5 system. This doesn't work. By forcing clubs to play local players, you just make them even lazier: Because they know they have a place in squad only for holding a Turkish or Russian passport.

So I sincerely believe that Russia should care more about youth development and academies. Forcing clubs to play Russians won't make them better. The skills and hockey mentality should be earned at a young age, so if we are talking about player development, sleeves must be rolled for VHL, MHL and local academies first; not KHL.

In fact, the current level ambition in Russia is great. Many rinks built and people seem to love hockey more and more. 10 years from now, I am sure Russia will have a better roster and many good players.

Forcing teams to play Russian players just because they are Russians or dumping foreign teams/players is a short-cut whose productivity is dubious at best. When players are good enough, they will find themselves a place. Nobody would take a NA player over a Russian one, just because he is American.

 

[Exarz]

32 teams will be fine in the KHL, as long as they limit amount of counter conference games. One meeting either home or away is enough. Focus mainly on your own division and conference, it works in the NHL, I don't see why it wouldn't work in the KHL?

Roman Rotenberg gave some vague comments about Jokerit future in KHL last week as well.

Could you give me the source? I can't seem to find it..

 

[Peter25]

32 teams will be fine in the KHL

Not possible with the current economic situation and oil price.

If/when it starts to get better the foreign player limit must be raised to 8-9 for Russian teams in a 32-team league.

 

[hansomreiste]

32 teams will be fine in the KHL, as long as they limit amount of counter conference games. One meeting either home or away is enough. Focus mainly on your own division and conference, it works in the NHL, I don't see why it wouldn't work in the KHL?


Could you give me the source? I can't seem to find it..

32 teams would be fantastic only when regular season is also like NHL at 82 games. However, doesn't matter how rich Russian oligarchs are, this does not look possible for a Eurasian league. Nobody in EU has that much money or interest to see their teams, I guess. 60 games for 32 teams are not enough. 80 or so is too much. But I'd definitely love to see 32 teams in KHL provided that it works.

 

[SoundAndFury]

I stopped reading the moment this raptor guy kindly suggested KHL should get rid of Traktor, Amur, Minsk Can tell already this is some quality insight going on here.

Also, not biased at all. Slovan barely made the playoffs once since the inclusion to the KHL and finish last in the league like every second year but they are obviously great and keeping the is a must. Not like these bums in Minsk who, even at this moment, are above Slovan but you know, who needs them. They are terrible, honest. Because reasons. Or those Traktor guys. They played in the finals 3 years ago but franchise is obviously useless and terrible, kick them asap...

Well done mate, I wish I could come up with such great ideas for the KHL future.

 

[Acallabeth]

First of all, this should be merged with the KHL contraction thread.

Second of all, meh, I don't agree with Raptor's words at all. Always amusing to see a Central European fans great idea of removing all distant teams.

It's a 60 game season with a 14 team conference and a 3 point system. Of course the worst teams will have much less points than 110 point teams and appear entirely not competitive. It was already pointed out that before yesterday's blowout Kuznya's 5 last losses were all by 1 goal, for example. Minsk is the only Belorussian team in the KHL, they were a playoff team last year and they're fighting for a playoff spot with 14-15k fans in standings. Let's kick them out!

Even though I wouldn't be that opposed to teams like Kuznya or Yugra leaving if the KHL announces abandoning any "social" goal of the KHL, intending to turn it into a strictly commercial league (which is probably will do in some distant future), there are a lot of ways to increase parity before coming to a decision to drop teams. I mean an actual salary cap with no exceptions, an open payroll, a draft that actually means something, a requirement for a trade to include a player or a pick from both sides, maybe a ban on midseason transactions at Jan 1st or something, etc. This will increase the average team's strength instead of just cutting the small budget clubs that also have some of the best hockey schools in Russia. Let's be reality, you may remove as many teams as you want, as long as SKA signs everyone they want to a huge contract, it won't improve the competitivness of the league.

There's some logic with that KHL shouldn't be a developmental league, but in fact the amount of good players who came to their feet in Kuzya alone even during the KHL years alone is very impressive: forwards Maxim Kazakov, Dmitry Kagarlitsky, Kirill Kaprizov, Alexander Bumagin, Ansel Galimov, Damir Zhafyarov, Mikhail Plotnikov, Kirill Lebedev, defensemen Dmitry Orlov, Roman Manukhov, Zakhar Arzamastsev, goaltenders Sergei Bobrovsky, Alexander Lazushin, Ilya Sorokin, Andrey Kareyev, Vladislav Podyapolskiy. Tell me how well would they develop if Kuznya played in the VHL. What for would the KHL abandon an opportunity like that?

 

[Exarz]

Not possible with the current economic situation and oil price.

If/when it starts to get better the foreign player limit must be raised to 8-9 for Russian teams in a 32-team league.

There's a long way until this, but with 32 teams, the league should have several Western team, thus decreased the amount of Russian teams in the league. The salary cap should have been lowered as well, so I don't see a league of 32 teams as a problem.

 

[tobu]

I stopped reading the moment this raptor guy kindly suggested KHL should get rid of Traktor, Amur, Minsk Can tell already this is some quality insight going on here.

Also, not biased at all. Slovan barely made the playoffs once since the inclusion to the KHL and finish last in the league like every second year but they are obviously great and keeping the is a must. Not like these bums in Minsk who, even at this moment, are above Slovan but you know, who needs them. They are terrible, honest. Because reasons. Or those Traktor guys. They played in the finals 3 years ago but franchise is obviously useless and terrible, kick them asap...

Well done mate, I wish I could come up with such great ideas for the KHL future.

completely agree, raptor just spit out some judgements, no arguments...

there is a difference between making a competitive league hockey wise and making a competitive league product wise, the two can be achieved without the other, but for a sustainable league you need the latter

what this league needs is to take as many features from NHL as possible, why not learn from someone else's experience?
salary cap, league profit sharing, geographical parity leading to an emphasis on division games are imo a must

 

[hansomreiste]

I still don't know how transfer window works in KHL, if there is any; but I guess there should be a limit for it as well, along with salary cap. I love and watch hockey almost every day but as I said, I am still not familiar with transfers, because they just seem to be happening daily. Take Nikita Gusev, for example. With him, Yugra was a play-off contender. Then he went to SKA mid-season and now see where Yugra is.

If there were strict windows for transfers, maybe Yugra would be able to get a play-off spot, put up a good fight and sell or trade Gusev with even better deal. It should be just like football: two or maybe three transfer windows during which you can sign or trade players - except free agents, they can be signed anytime.

With current structure, good players are just immediately snatched, leaving "poorer" teams even poorer. As long as this and big financial gaps keep happening, there is no way to make teams like Yugra or Kuzyna competitive. However, if every team was given equal chances, I am pretty sure they could put up a better fight - not lowering overall quality but improving.

 

[vorky]

KHL has deadline on Dec 25. That means that clubs can sign/trade a player since the beginning of offseason (May) to Dec 25. The same applies to free agents. Example is Artyukhin. SKA wanted to trade him on Dec 25, he did not agree... and next day SKA terminated his contract, he became a free agent, but can not sign anymore in KHL (this season).

 

[Raptor1990]

KHL has deadline on Dec 25. That means that clubs can sign/trade a player since the beginning of offseason (May) to Dec 25. The same applies to free agents. Example is Artyukhin. SKA wanted to trade him on Dec 25, he did not agree... and next day SKA terminated his contract, he became a free agent, but can not sign anymore in KHL (this season).

Artyukhin is useless now for SKA because the other guys which creates a lot of penalties is Kovalchuk.

 

[Jussi]

Could you give me the source? I can't seem to find it..

http://urheiluuutiset.com/roman-rotenberg-suomella-tapahtui-jotain-henkisellapuolella/

Last paragraph.

 

[Raptor1990]

Another thing is why KHL continue to donate hopeless foreign franchise like Medvescak instead creating their own new franchises for example Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, Volgograd and Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk ?