Another "Southern Belt Is A Failure" Article

[Finlandia WOAT]

I wouldn't say they are that impressive. Florida has 2 NHL franchises almost 2 decades old now (Panthers started in 1993 and TB started in 1992 with 1 cup win). Texas has the Stars which also started play in 93 with 1 cup win and 1 finals loss. Canes started playing in 97 and have won a cup.

Percentage wise it would be quite impressive if it didn't take 20 years to do it. If those numbers were say growth since 2005 (5 years) then yeah. Raw numbers don't look very flattering.

To his their own.

Although for everything but the Florida franchises, it is closer to 10 years than 20.

 

[Kirikanoir]

What constitutes a sun belt team?

To me, a sunbelt team is a team that was added in a wave of expansion or relocation during the 1990's to places where hockey was not a traditional sport, specifically (but not limited to) the American South and Southwest.

Well personally since there was a NHL team for a time in Oakland, as well as the LA Kings being in the league since the 1967 expansion I never really considered San Jose a non traditional market.

 

[Hamilton Tigers]

"...essentially force the six Canadian NHL teams, plus the small number of successful American NHL teams..."

This kind of language is why this article is so bad. For one thing, there are more American teams that make money than Canadian teams and it's not only because there are more teams in the US.

I'm missing your point. He didn't say there were more or less teams in the U.S. making money than there are in Canada.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Well personally since there was a NHL team for a time in Oakland, as well as the LA Kings being in the league since the 1967 expansion I never really considered San Jose a non traditional market.

LA is 5 hours from San Jose. That is akin to saying that Raleigh is a traditional market because Washington is close by.

And Oakland was in the League for 11 years, i.e, the amount of time the Thrashers have been in Atlanta. Does the fact that they had the Thrashers (and the Flames) make Atlanta a non traditional market?

 

[Kirikanoir]

but for every reason to move a team back to Canada I could find reasons to move Canadian teams to the US - give me a computer, Google and a few minutes.

Now there is a well thought out business plan, lets move some pf the more profitable teams in the league to where they will make less money or might even lose money. Can`t imagine why the NHL has not thought of that long ago. Solves all the problems, pretty soon the league will fold and we won`t have to hear the Canadian Elitist Media`s propaganda about those struggling sunbelt teams anymore.

 

[Roadrage]

To his their own.

Although for everything but the Florida franchises, it is closer to 10 years than 20.

Au contraire...
Florida Panthers (1993) 18 years
TB Lightning (1992) 19 years
Dallas Stars (1993) 18 years
San Jose Sharks (1992) 19 years
Anaheim Ducks (1993) 18 years
LA Kings (1967) 44 years
Carolina Hurricanes (1997) 14 years
Atlanta Thrashers (1999) 12 years

Only the Canes and Thrashers are closer to 10 years. Everyone else except the long toothed Kings are nipping at 20 including both Florida franchises.

 

[bladoww]

Now there is a well thought out business plan, lets move some pf the more profitable teams in the league to where they will make less money or might even lose money. Can`t imagine why the NHL has not thought of that long ago. Solves all the problems, pretty soon the league will fold and we won`t have to hear the Canadian Elitist Media`s propaganda about those struggling sunbelt teams anymore.

A) I didn't outline anything close to a business plan and B), I didn't say anything about moving the "more profitable", as you say, teams to the US.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Au contraire...
Florida Panthers (1993) 18 years
TB Lightning (1992) 19 years
Dallas Stars (1993) 18 years
San Jose Sharks (1992) 19 years
Anaheim Ducks (1993) 18 years
LA Kings (1967) 44 years
Carolina Hurricanes (1997) 14 years
Atlanta Thrashers (1999) 12 years

Only the Canes and Thrashers are closer to 10 years. Everyone else except the long toothed Kings are nipping at 20 including both Florida franchises.

Fair enough, but like I said, the point is that there is growth that would certainly not be there if the franchises were not.

I don't feel like getting in a spat over the meaning of statistics. Maybe tomorrow.

EDIT: Eh, got nothing else to do.

Why is this not impressive? Especially when you consider that the growth numbers for more "traditional" markets are as such:

New York- 110%
Pennsylvania: 164%
New Jersey: 148%
Michigan: 109%
Minnesota: 69%

Again, why is the growth in non-traditional markets not impressive, and if you can prove your assertion, what should those numbers be to be hailed as "impressive"?

http://unitedstatesofhockey.com/201...ockeys-growth-in-the-united-states-1990-2009/

 

[dronald]

I personally have no problem with it, as everything his rant outlines is valid (outside the reasons that the Thrashers have failed). It's just that it is inordinately biased.

The article is true, but this I agree with. He showed complete bias in everything he said and did not even mention that, "perhaps one day it will catch on in the south."

My two cents: Give Hamilton a team then I can stop hopeing that other franchises fold. I'm really sorry to all the fans out there, but Hamilton deserves a team too.

 

[Confucius]

My two cents: Give Hamilton a team then I can stop hopeing that other franchises fold. I'm really sorry to all the fans out there, but Hamilton deserves a team too.

Winnipeg
Hamilton
Quebec city
Toronto 2

 

[btn]

It is the kind of article you would expect from someone who thinks Canada can support 12 teams.

In 10 or so years when economic conditions have improved in the US and gotten worse in Canada, I doubt this particular writer will be asked to write any Op Ed pieces.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Hey I used to support a Hamilton team. Then I learned a)you can't market that in the US. b) the money that would come would impact Buffalo.

 

[Melrose Munch]

It is the kind of article you would expect from someone who thinks Canada can support 12 teams.

In 10 or so years when economic conditions have improved in the US and gotten worse in Canada, I doubt this particular writer will be asked to write any Op Ed pieces.

This cycle is sickening.

 

[Kirikanoir]

LA is 5 hours from San Jose. That is akin to saying that Raleigh is a traditional market because Washington is close by.

Given the past exposure to NHL hockey I don`t consider the California teams necessary non traditional markets.But like I said that`s my own personal viewpoint.

And Oakland was in the League for 11 years, i.e, the amount of time the Thrashers have been in Atlanta. Does the fact that they had the Thrashers (and the Flames) make Atlanta a non traditional market?

I don`t necessary consider Atlanta a non traditional market either. I actually always felt sorry that Atlanta lost the Flames. From everything I read they seemed to have decent management, attendance and competitive teams every year.

I also have sympathy for the current Atlanta teams fans. As a sports fan I don`t get any pleasure from seeing any city lose a sports franchise, and especially not when it happens twice.

It would have been better had it been Phoenix moving back to Winnipeg, and not because one wants to see Phoenix lose a team either, but simply because it would Winnipeg getting back the team they lost to Phoenix.

 

[Retail1LO*]

Au contraire...
Florida Panthers (1993) 18 years
TB Lightning (1992) 19 years
Dallas Stars (1993) 18 years
San Jose Sharks (1992) 19 years
Anaheim Ducks (1993) 18 years
LA Kings (1967) 44 years
Carolina Hurricanes (1997) 14 years
Atlanta Thrashers (1999) 12 years

Only the Canes and Thrashers are closer to 10 years. Everyone else except the long toothed Kings are nipping at 20 including both Florida franchises.

Excluding the Kings, Sharks, and Thrashers, the other teams have accounted for 4 Cup wins, and three more Cup appearances which resulted in losses. Those 5 teams have been around an average of 17 years. So with 7 appearances in the finals, one of those teams, on average, has made a Cup final appearance roughly once every 2.5 seasons.

That's not too shabby. At all.

 

[Confucius]

Hey I used to support a Hamilton team. Then I learned a)you can't market that in the US. b) the money that would come would impact Buffalo.

Impact Buffalo? Hardly, it's a U S Market and a traditional one at that, just give it 10 more years.

 

[Alex The Loyal]

In 10 or so years when economic conditions have improved in the US and gotten worse in Canada, I doubt this particular writer will be asked to write any Op Ed pieces.

And how will this occur, my good sir?

 

[dronald]

Hey I used to support a Hamilton team. Then I learned a)you can't market that in the US.

You could call them the "Ontario" or "Southern Ontario supercools" or whatever.

b) the money that would come would impact Buffalo.

Buffalo has been a solid team with a solid fan base. If a team in Hamilton would really mess up Buffalo so badly, then you admit that Hamilton deserves a team even more than Buffalo... Just goes to show how much Hamilton deserves one.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

And how will this occur, my good sir?

My guess is the U.S. will switch it's oil purchases from Canada to Mexico.

But it's just a guess....

 

[Confucius]

My guess is the U.S. will switch it's oil purchases from Canada to Mexico.

But it's just a guess....

Cool, it will only be worth more much further down the road.

 

[Fishhead]

Last year the Packers had an operating profit of $9.8 million.
They received tv revenues of $95.8 million.

Without the tv revenue they would have lost $86 million.

Numerous pro baseball teams are community owned- including the Famous Toledo Mud Hens. The Reading Royals (ECHL) are in the process of being 50% owned by the community. "North" American teams that are community owned include the Edmonton Eskimos, The Winnipeg Blue Bombers and the Saskatchewan Roughriders.

You are simplifying things a bit too much there with the OI. Green Bay is in the bottom 1/3rd of the league in ticket prices, which leaves them with a lot of room to raise them if for some reason TV revenue went sour. The fans there can afford it, the ticket costs are low because they are owned by the public and aren't in it for the profit of an individual owner. The Packers could easily make $70M + per year. They have the least amount of debt of any team in the league and are worth over $1B.

And while there are minor league teams here in America that are community owned, none of the major professional ones are. It's a little different to have a small team owned by a city than one that is worth a billion dollars. I know some CFL teams are owned by the public, but their salary cap is half of what NHL superstars get paid. I'm pretty sure a rich guy could pick up a CFL franchise a few years ago for under $20M. Its not even comparable.

Regardless, to imply that Green Bay is a small market that is reliant on TV revenues to survive shows that zero research was done.

 

[Alex The Loyal]

My guess is the U.S. will switch it's oil purchases from Canada to Mexico.

But it's just a guess....

But why? Is Canada in some sort of Drug War or in some dire Middle East-ish condition? Canada is probably the best buy around if you want a supplier that doesn't harbor terrorists or is in a Civil War

 

[molsonmuscle360]

My guess is the U.S. will switch it's oil purchases from Canada to Mexico.

But it's just a guess....

That's ok. We have been working on a pipeline for a while now that runs from Ft. McMurray to Prince Rupert. And from Prince Rupert it heads on off to China on ships.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Cool, it will only be worth more much further down the road.

Exactly!

After being in the toilet for a period of 7 years (no more, no less), the loonie will be revitalized when Mexico gets workers rights and its oil price skyrockets.

Because the economy works in cycles. Sometimes its high, sometimes its low.

EDIT: To those who responded with seriousness, I was taking out of my ass. I have no idea how Canada- U.S oil relations works, or even the broader economic principles of such a complex relationship.

 

[Alex The Loyal]

Worry not, I was ************ as well