Anniversary of the Weber/Pernell trade

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

One thread I wish never was made, both trades were pointless imo.

 

[elitepete]

rip habs

 

[Fazkovsky]

looks fine now

will look horrible within 5 years from now

Life is short anyways who knows whats gonna happen 5 years from now

 

[Seb]

Horrible trade from day one. Bergevin is a clown.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Individually
Weber was better than Subban in the regular season (finished 6th in voting, Subban not even top 23)
He was also better in the playoffs (small sample, he only played 6 games). Weber was the habs 2nd best player in the playoffs. Subban, on the other hand, was like the 5th best Preds player

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Nashville wins the trade only because they have a younger player but it's not as one-sided as some people say. I've always thought PK was overrated and his Norris trophy was laughable. I watched all of Nashville's playoff games in both the Ducks and Pens series' this year and I thought PK was meh against the Ducks and invisible against the Pens (except for his inexplicable spinneramas and useless 1 on 5 rushes). I think he had zero to do with Nashville's playoff success, so bringing up how far Nashville went in the playoffs does not affect my opinion on the trade one bit.

Some Montreal fans can't let go of his legacy because he's a bigger than life type guy, but he wasn't a big loss for Montreal in the context of the trade and he proved he's not a difference maker in this year's Cup run.

 

[RickP]

Nashville is the clear winner, no doubt, but short term, the Habs still got a very valuable Dman, still one of the best in the league. The trade just doesn't make sense for MTL however you look at it though.

I mean, if Beaulieu had developped into a Norris candidate by last year, if Markov was still 28 years old and Petry had elevated his game even more, and if the Habs had amazing offense, then ok, I guess you can sacrifice a younger D in order to get an older D with different qualities that your team needs. It would still have been a bad trade, market-value wise, but it could have helped the Habs.

But obviously, that wasn't the case. The Habs weren't one Shea Weber away from winning the cup. MB just wanted to get rid of Subban, but he needed someone who could replace him, so he accepted Poile's offer.

I'm looking forward to next season, if Subban's fully healthy, we'll have a better idea of what he can do with the Preds. He went through ups and downs throughout the season, but he eventually built a great chemistry with Ekholm, they were the best pairing in the entire league (IMO) in the playoffs. If he picks up where he left off, he'll have a shot at another Norris nomination IMO. Probably won't win it, but he'll be considered.

 

[Toene]

Nashville wins the trade only because they have a younger player but it's not as one-sided as some people say. I've always thought PK was overrated and his Norris trophy was laughable. I watched all of Nashville's playoff games in both the Ducks and Pens series' this year and I thought PK was meh against the Ducks and invisible against the Pens (except for his inexplicable spinneramas and useless 1 on 5 rushes). I think he had zero to do with Nashville's playoff success, so bringing up how far Nashville went in the playoffs does not affect my opinion on the trade one bit.

Some Montreal fans can't let go of his legacy because he's a bigger than life type guy, but he wasn't a big loss for Montreal in the context of the trade and he proved he's not a difference maker in this year's Cup run.

Subban was easily the best defensive defenseman in the whole playoffs.

 

[Gnashville]

Nashville wins the trade only because they have a younger player but it's not as one-sided as some people say. I've always thought PK was overrated and his Norris trophy was laughable. I watched all of Nashville's playoff games in both the Ducks and Pens series' this year and I thought PK was meh against the Ducks and invisible against the Pens (except for his inexplicable spinneramas and useless 1 on 5 rushes). I think he had zero to do with Nashville's playoff success, so bringing up how far Nashville went in the playoffs does not affect my opinion on the trade one bit.

Some Montreal fans can't let go of his legacy because he's a bigger than life type guy, but he wasn't a big loss for Montreal in the context of the trade and he proved he's not a difference maker in this year's Cup run.

Clearly you didn't watch the 1st 2 series vs Chicago and St Louis.
Zero chance they play the Ducks or Pens without Subban. He was dominate in the Blues series and they probably don't win it without him.

 

[Price is Wright]

Subban was easily the best defensive defenseman in the whole playoffs.

That's what makes the PK peaked talk so funny. He was supposed to just be an offensive defenceman.

Weber was what he was. Nothing Montreal needed, and certainly nothing to make them any better. He was very good, but has yet to show greatness in any aspect.

Montreal in 16-17 was comparable to Montreal in 14-15 except they accomplished less with more to work with. The biggest difference was who was the best defenceman.

Weber might never see a conference final in the CH.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

I don't think either player had much of a marginal impact on their team's destinies, they probably would have been in the same place either way.

Nashville had a good team in 2016, they lost in the 2nd round in game 7 to the West champs. Their biggest downfall was weak goaltending from Rinne. That team had some improvements up front, and most importantly got like .940 goaltending from Rinne who played his best in 5 years through the first 3 rounds. That carried them to the final.

For Montreal they ran into a bad matchup against a hot Lunquvist and a tight checking Rangers team. They didn't have the offensive talent to breakthrough. Could PK been a bit more helpful? Maybe but Weber was IMO the 2nd most effective skater for the Canadiens after Radulov so he really would have had to put on some Karlsson-esque performance to do improve on Weber (which he never really did on Nashville). Weber also rang the post like 2-3 times on big clappers that had beaten Lunqvist, an inch or two could have swapped a game or two.

Rinne played well against Anaheim. He played better than both Elliott and Quick against the Sharks and definitely better than Allen, which almost says it's more of the Sharks being that good, and defense issues than Rinne alone. But I agree it could just mean all 4 goalies before Murray sucked against the Sharks.

 

[TheTechNoir]

I'll admit that I stared at the title for a while. I don't think I've ever actually seen his full name until just now.

Yeah. I was thinking. Uh. Strange thread name. PK-Weber was right around a year ago. Did Yannick Weber get traded for some Pernell guy a few years ago on this date or something?

Pernell. P. Oh. Stupid thread title, he is referred to as PK, Subban, or PK Subban in the hockey community 99.99% of the time...

 

[ollewall]

Weber finished 5th in norris voting... When is he gonna slow down exactly? 42 pts... 20 goals.. Rock solid defense... Where did he slow down?

Well, for a start 42 points in 78 games is his worst PPG since 07/08.

 

[Frank Drebin]

That's what makes the PK peaked talk so funny. He was supposed to just be an offensive defenceman.

Weber was what he was. Nothing Montreal needed, and certainly nothing to make them any better. He was very good, but has yet to show greatness in any aspect.

Montreal in 16-17 was comparable to Montreal in 14-15 except they accomplished less with more to work with. The biggest difference was who was the best defenceman.

Weber might never see a conference final in the CH.

The biggest difference between those 2 years is in 15 we had a guy in net who won 3 individual trophies. Still fizzeled out in second round with Pk.

Both defensemen are extremely overrated and overpaid by about 1.5 -2.0 per season. Subban probably more so.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Subban was easily the best defensive defenseman in the whole playoffs.

If you say so.

 

[Anksun]

I like Subban and would rather have keep himin Mtl. But Weber was rock solid all year long. He didnt use his slapper for like 2 months in the middle of the season and there was some infos leaks that Weber played that part of the season with an injury that would have sidelined most players for a month.

I mean Weber play a disgusting game7 for Nashville and it feels like its the best he can do now reading hfboards which is ridiculous. He carry the habs defense along side. .. Emelin for most of the year, a player most here would rather buy out than letting him play defense for their tram.. .

 

[Burke the Legend]

Sure you can put that on Rinne partly, but to just overlook how bad Weber was is pretty cute.

Yeah Weber-Subban is now the reason Rinne was crap .906 one year and Conn Smythe level .930 the next LOL

 

[Tom Collins]

You mean Shea/Pernell or Weber/Subban, right?

I mean after this season it looks like the Preds are really happy with their decision, and unless Montreal wants to blame the first-round exit on Weber I'm sure they're happy with it too.

 

[Fire Sweeney]

Weber finished 5th in norris in voting and Subban was injured most of the year. Draw because of the SCF?

6th actually, thanks to the montreal media clown who gave him a 1st place vote

 

[Burke the Legend]

6th actually, thanks to the montreal media clown who gave him a 1st place vote

You can't cherry pick every media clown vote you dislike, because they weigh on every players' rank (both positive and negative).

That's just part of the "charm" of letting idiot journalists vote on hockey awards.

If the NHL wanted to be serious about awards it they would let pro scouts do the voting but it's a marketing thing to let journalists do it since it strokes their egos and in turn they generate more publicity for the league.

 

[417]

That's what makes the PK peaked talk so funny. He was supposed to just be an offensive defenceman.

Weber was what he was. Nothing Montreal needed, and certainly nothing to make them any better. He was very good, but has yet to show greatness in any aspect.

Montreal in 16-17 was comparable to Montreal in 14-15 except they accomplished less with more to work with. The biggest difference was who was the best defenceman.

Weber might never see a conference final in the CH.

What we saw from PK in these past playoffs is not anything different than what Habs fans had the pleasure of watching for 6yrs.

He wasn't any better in these playoffs, than his time with the Habs

 

[Nithoniniel]

What we saw from PK in these past playoffs is not anything different than what Habs fans had the pleasure of watching for 6yrs.

He wasn't any better in these playoffs, than his time with the Habs

He always completely shuts down opposing stars 5v5, while absolutely dominating in consistently tough matchups?

Don't get me wrong, he was absolutely great in Montreal, but if he always played the kind of defensive game he brought in the playoffs, he'd have a very good case to be the best D-man in the league.

I have no idea how people didn't take notice of just how good he was.

 

[The Great Weal]

Montreal still lost the trade big time and it will only get worse. But I honestly think that Subban played better in Montreal.

I love PK but he shouldve taken his game up a notch during the finals. He was held scoreless. That's what I like with Weber. He can actually score goals. PK is a way better possession player but ~20 goals from a dman is very valuable.

Murray was playing like a god, and Weber would need an asthma inhaler after every shift if he ever plays in the finals.

Individually
Weber was better than Subban in the regular season (finished 6th in voting, Subban not even top 23)
He was also better in the playoffs (small sample, he only played 6 games). Weber was the habs 2nd best player in the playoffs. Subban, on the other hand, was like the 5th best Preds player

Subban injured for a chunk of the season plays a huge role in that. Weber was nowhere near as good in the playoffs regardless the sample size, he looked done after game 3. Weber was definitely NOT the 2nd best player. Lekhonen, Radulov, Gallagher, Price were all MUCH better. Subban, just like Weber, was his teams best defenseman. The difference is that Nashville has the best top 4 in the league and reached the finals. Even if Subban was supposedly the 5th best player, he was the 5th best player with the finalist and Weber was supposedly the 2nd best player with the team who lost to the Rangers in the first round...

 

[Lebowski]

He always completely shuts down opposing stars 5v5, while absolutely dominating in consistently tough matchups?

Don't get me wrong, he was absolutely great in Montreal, but if he always played the kind of defensive game he brought in the playoffs, he'd have a very good case to be the best D-man in the league.

I have no idea how people didn't take notice of just how good he was.

Yes

and

Yes

That's part of the reason why he has always been as highly touted as he was... You'll still see people name him as an OFD in the same breath as Burns or Karlsson but that couldn't be any further from the truth. He's a lot more Doughty than he is Burns.

He is, however, perhaps a tad more prone to mistakes because he's a showman that likes to do his thing every once in a while. He's been doing that less and less as he has matured, though. Some argue that made him a worse player, less of a gamebreaker, others see a steady defensive cornerstone that can set-up and finish plays offensively at the same time. There's no wrong answers here, I think, just a matter of preferences.

For the record, Subban was tasked with shutting down Ovechkin, and then Crosby as a rookie in the 2010 playoffs, and he was amazing at it. That was as an AHL call-up.

 

[SAK11]

Yes

and

Yes

That's part of the reason why he has always been as highly touted as he was... You'll still see people name him as an OFD in the same breath as Burns or Karlsson but that couldn't be any further from the truth. He's a lot more Doughty than he is Burns.

He is, however, perhaps a tad more prone to mistakes because he's a showman that likes to do his thing every once in a while. He's been doing that less and less as he has matured, though. Some argue that made him a worse player, less of a gamebreaker, others see a steady defensive cornerstone that can set-up and finish plays offensively at the same time. There's no wrong answers here, I think, just a matter of preferences.

For the record, Subban was tasked with shutting down Ovechkin, and then Crosby as a rookie in the 2010 playoffs, and he was amazing at it. That was as an AHL call-up.

Subban played 2 games against Washington in those 2010 playoffs, averaged around 10:30 per game. He was not tasked with shutting down Ovechkin. He played well in the Pens series, though.