Andrew Barroway to buy 51% of the Coyotes (Done, Pending BOG Approval)

[Slashers98]

What do you think of this point of view? http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2014/11/10/8078/glendales-lease-deal-with-coyotes-is-now-officially-most-godawful-of-all-time/

 

[Killion]

^^^ Accurate though incomplete. Fails to mention that there are no performance clauses nor does it mention the fact that Glendales' also on the hook for a wide variety of "capital improvements" to the building. Some of which to date clearly transcend just basic maintenance & or security upgrades & have more to do with operational issues which normally should & would be the responsibility of the arena management company.

 

[cbcwpg]

Just as important, it also means the $15-million is not recorded as hockey-related revenue, which has to be shared 50-50 with the players under the collective agreement.

I wonder who at NHL headquarters maybe "suggested" IA set it up this way?

 

[Killion]

I wonder who at NHL headquarters maybe "suggested" IA set it up this way?

.... ya, gee, I wonder.... predicated no doubt on the NHLPA's claims of a few years back that
yes indeed, the monies paid to the NHL by the City were in fact HRR's & they wanted their cut.

 

[Fugu]

Right but there is more to league membership then just the distributed HRR. The league provides marketing, finance, and legal support, and it provides 29 other teams and makes them come to your city to play your team. So you derive revenues from just being in the league. So there is a value in simply being in the league. Like Gosbee said, he wasn't buying the Coyotes he was buying 1/30th of the league. So take the franchise with the lowest value and that's the value of 1/30th of the league. To figure out the value of any other market is the difference in value between that franchise and the value of 1/30th of the league.

I think you're still taking this too far. I believe Gosbee was sold on the idea that some new deals were coming down the pike that would increase the NHL's contribution to overall HRR from the 10% point circa 2006-07, to some thing far greater. Indeed, revenue sharing (each team's cut of the central funds) has indeed increased thanks to Rogers, more national sponsors, and the outdoor series. And the higher CAD, of course.

As far as providing marketing and legal support, etc., the league does what it needs to do to market all 30 teams (the league) and take care of the league's business. Teams are still responsible for all these functions at the local level.

 

[Llama19]

Hmmm...will IceArizona/Barroway try to get this to help pay for team operations?

Bankruptcy court to decide who gets $1 million in escrow

To quote:

"A $1 million escrow account that was funded as an arena operating reserve account is causing a stir within city government as a bankruptcy judge decides who should receive the money.

Craig Tindall, former Glendale city attorney and current legal counsel for the Arizona Coyotes, sent a letter to the city in December stating the arena management and lease agreement dated Nov. 29, 2001 was no longer valid and the money belonged to the current arena operators and new owners of the Coyotes, IceArizona."

Source: http://www.glendalestar.com/news/article_1a3e1f1a-6929-11e4-a93d-c72a710bae1b.html

 

[barneyg]

Craig Tindall, former Glendale city attorney and current legal counsel for the Arizona Coyotes, sent a letter to the city in December stating the arena management and lease agreement dated Nov. 29, 2001 was no longer valid and the money belonged to the current arena operators and new owners of the Coyotes, IceArizona."

I have two comments --

1) Tindall now solidly in "crook" category along with his old pal Beasley. We can argue the signed lease's (lack of) financial merit all we want, had Tindall been working for his employer's best interest during negotiations with IA, he would have included a clause saying the $1 million arena operating reserve was the City's and not IA's.

2) Norma, please stop talking about things you don't understand.

hey, might as well add a 3rd comment --

about the Field of Schemes blog post, gee, what else is new?

 

[aqib]

Hmmm...will IceArizona/Barroway try to get this to help pay for team operations?

Bankruptcy court to decide who gets $1 million in escrow

To quote:

"A $1 million escrow account that was funded as an arena operating reserve account is causing a stir within city government as a bankruptcy judge decides who should receive the money.

Craig Tindall, former Glendale city attorney and current legal counsel for the Arizona Coyotes, sent a letter to the city in December stating the arena management and lease agreement dated Nov. 29, 2001 was no longer valid and the money belonged to the current arena operators and new owners of the Coyotes, IceArizona."

Source: http://www.glendalestar.com/news/article_1a3e1f1a-6929-11e4-a93d-c72a710bae1b.html

Yeah I can't see how the team can keep it until the creditors are made whole.

 

[CasualFan]

1) Tindall now solidly in "crook" category along with his old pal Beasley. We can argue the signed lease's (lack of) financial merit all we want, had Tindall been working for his employer's best interest during negotiations with IA, he would have included a clause saying the $1 million arena operating reserve was the City's and not IA's.

2) Norma, please stop talking about things you don't understand.

So Alvarez should pretty much just stop talking altogether. I'd endorse that. Tindall is a gem. I certainly hope that he also created some form of service credit vesting loophole with COG that allows him to draw OPEB for his stellar representation of the city's interests.

 

[aqib]

I don't think Alvarez deserves the bashing she gets around here. She's seems like a nice person who just happens to represent the poorest part of the city and as such was concerned about the programs that effected her constituency.

That being said anyone follow the elections this year? I am curious how the pro-Coyotes voters fared.

 

[CasualFan]

I don't think Alvarez deserves the bashing she gets around here. She's seems like a nice person who just happens to represent the poorest part of the city and as such was concerned about the programs that effected her constituency.

Alvarez doesn't demonstrate a true understanding of any governance concepts. She may be a delightful person but she's not qualified to make decisions that impact an entire municipality.

Its amazing but in Glendale there's pretty much no nuance. There's the apparently corrupt and the utterly stupid. Alvarez is going to be right at home in the second group. It's probably the more honorable position but it certainly doesn't pay as well

 

[barneyg]

I don't think Alvarez deserves the bashing she gets around here. She's seems like a nice person who just happens to represent the poorest part of the city and as such was concerned about the programs that effected her constituency.

Quote from the article:

“had Mr. Moyes known about these funds, he might have been able to avoid filing bankruptcy.”

How much time would the $1 million escrow account have bought Moyes? Come on aqib, you know the answer.

More generally, one would think that all councilmembers would be careful with open meeting laws knowing the AG is looking at the some of their actions in the past year. Alvarez being one of the 3 people who can claim she was not part of the Sherwood/IA racket, you'd think she'd be extra careful not to throw away her moral advantage. I mean, this is not House of Cards stuff here.

 

[aqib]

Quote from the article:

“had Mr. Moyes known about these funds, he might have been able to avoid filing bankruptcy.â€

How much time would the $1 million escrow account have bought Moyes? Come on aqib, you know the answer.

More generally, one would think that all councilmembers would be careful with open meeting laws knowing the AG is looking at the some of their actions in the past year. Alvarez being one of the 3 people who can claim she was not part of the Sherwood/IA racket, you'd think she'd be extra careful not to throw away her moral advantage. I mean, this is not House of Cards stuff here.

Not saying she's a genius. Far from it. But she has been ripped a lot around here over the years. She certainly has more sense than Martinez, Clarke, Knaack, etc.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

lol. That article confirms that for all the criticism anyone who has worked for the CoG has received... she is *definitely* the most yokel-y of the yokels. Wow.

 

[TheLegend]

Not saying she's a genius. Far from it. But she has been ripped a lot around here over the years. She certainly has more sense than Martinez, Clarke, Knaack, etc.

Wouldn't be because she's been anti-Coyotes since she took office would it??

FWIW.... I have two issues with Norma. One.... she only shows up to council meetings when there's something on the council agenda she can be on a winning side of, or she can get her whines in. Two... she has to be coached at nearly every position she's taken.

And from what little I've seen.... (and if the final vote holds up) her replacement isn't going to be much better.

 

[CasualFan]

Not saying she's a genius. Far from it. But she has been ripped a lot around here over the years. She certainly has more sense than Martinez, Clarke, Knaack, etc.

I would disagree. Trying to assess which of those four is the most astute is basically dividing by zero. You sure you're not just biased to Alvarez because she voted against the lease?

 

[TheLegend]

What do you think of this point of view? http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2014/11/10/8078/glendales-lease-deal-with-coyotes-is-now-officially-most-godawful-of-all-time/

The fact that the author makes special note to David Shoalt's "excellent investigation" doesn't lend any more credence than most of the posts in this thread.

 

[Fugu]

The fact that the author makes special note to David Shoalt's "excellent investigation" doesn't lend any more credence than most of the posts in this thread.

I for one welcome the research of Shoalts and Brooks. None of the locals got a whiff of all that was going on until Brooksie mentioned Barroway. Clearly, the connections to the people in the know and who will talk aren't to be found locally.

 

[TheLegend]

I for one welcome the research of Shoalts and Brooks. None of the locals got a whiff of all that was going on until Brooksie mentioned Barroway. Clearly, the connections to the people in the know and who will talk aren't to be found locally.

I would give Brooks credit for breaking the initial story about Barroway. Other than that...... meh.

I'd probably feel better about that if the Shoaltses and such of the world who follow behind parroting the original, would leave the smarmy innuendos and their personal agendas out of the data they put forth. I've read other G&M reporters who have written articles critical of the Coyotes since the BK and they've been quite fair.

But.... that's me.

 

[Fugu]

I would give Brooks credit for breaking the initial story about Barroway. Other than that...... meh.

I'd probably feel better about that if the Shoaltses and such of the world who follow behind parroting the original, would leave the smarmy innuendos and their personal agendas out of the data they put forth. I've read other G&M reporters who have written articles critical of the Coyotes since the BK and they've been quite fair.

But.... that's me.

I agree on that bit, that he could leave the nationalistic smarmy comments out of it. He has enough real material with which to work that it realistically just ends up taking away from the storyline. He may have let the league's 'shoot the messenger' approach get to him.

 

[CasualFan]

I agree on that bit, that he could leave the nationalistic smarmy comments out of it. He has enough real material with which to work that it realistically just ends up taking away from the storyline. He may have let the league's 'shoot the messenger' approach get to him.

Generally, things appear to be more similar than different: Shoalts has a smug take that appeals to his base. Morgan has a smug take that appeals to his base. They both tend to offer their version of the story as indisputable fact without regard to how frequently they've both been inaccurate or scooped by other sources.

Also, pretty much in the same category, the Field of Schemes story appears to have been updated to correct the erroneous "$1 in rent" claim. Seems like someone somewhere along the long the line confused the Spring Training subsidy withe the hockey subsidy.

My only input to all of these sources would once again be: If you want to write smug columns that appeal to your base, cool - that makes sense. However, if you're going to represent that you're some hard hitting investigative journalist, do the work. It's not even that much work. Geesh - you don't have to be able to land a rover on a comet to navigate the Coyotes documents.

 

[aqib]

Just curious. How would any expansion fees count in terms of the profit and loss for the $50 million total loss over 5 years. 2 expansion teams at $400 million a pop thats $26.7 million. So they would have to lose $76.7 million which is a little harder to do.

 

[madhi19]

Just curious. How would any expansion fees count in terms of the profit and loss for the $50 million total loss over 5 years. 2 expansion teams at $400 million a pop thats $26.7 million. So they would have to lose $76.7 million which is a little harder to do.

That easy the NHL gave the Clowns a operating loan that has not been repaid yet. Any expansion money will probably get deducted from that debt.

 

[barneyg]

That easy the NHL gave the Clowns a operating loan that has not been repaid yet. Any expansion money will probably get deducted from that debt.

That doesn't answer the question though -- expansion money would have to be part of accounting earnings either way: they either get a check (and count it as income), or they do not get a check but record a gain on debt retirement (also income).

However, IA does not have to lose $50 million in accounting earnings to exercise the out clause -- they need $50 million in operating losses. IA would very likely* be able to justify that since expansion fees are not considered to be hockey-related revenue, then they are not part of the team's operations either, and they could exclude them from the calculations (like the $15M AMF).

* I write "likely" because "operating income/loss" is neither defined under GAAP or in the agreement with Glendale. The term is often used in practice and some things are clearly part of operating income (gate revenues, player salaries), other things are clearly not (interest expense), yet some others are debatable (such as the Coyotes' share of eventual expansion fees). I pointed out that the lease terms were way too vague to my liking when they were published last year.

 

[aqib]

we're at 1000 posts. Does this become a mega-thread?