Player Discussion Andreas Athanasiou

[GOilers88]

I think most people who do not like AA did not like him even before he got here. He had one 30 goal year and looked like an absolutely incomplete player with lack of smarts, compete and overall game. Seemed like a one dimensional individualistic player whom the rest of the league might have already figured out. I would cut bait simply because I don't have a good feeling about what this player can offer as far as overall game to help the team win... not because he was underwhelming in his short stint here.

I get it, I do. But the fact is two 2nds were paid, and if we aren't willing to give that cost more than a few weeks worth of play then I don't know what to say. Nobody even has a clue what he's going to be signed for, and people actually believe just walking away from the player and picks before he even has half a season to try and prove himself is actually a smart play. How does it even help the team to walk away from him before even negotiating a new contract?

I find that whole line of thought to be eerily reminiscent of the Decade of Darkness.

 

[MaxR11]

I get it, I do. But the fact is two 2nds were paid, and if we aren't willing to give that cost more than a few weeks worth of play then I don't know what to say. Nobody even has a clue what he's going to be signed for, and people actually believe just walking away from the player and picks before he even has half a season to try and prove himself is actually a smart play. How does it even help the team to walk away from him before even negotiating a new contract?

I find that whole line of thought to be eerily reminiscent of the Decade of Darkness.

And I do get that line of thinking. I'd just chalk it up to a bad decision by Holland. My fear, like I mentioned in another post, is that we sign him for a one year trial... he pops up good numbers but is questionable as far as actual proper play in helping the team WIN... then Holland signs him for something stupid based on decent production... like 4 x 5mil. I'd want to cut bait asap so we don't get fooled into some temporary decent numbers and sign a very overrated player to a long term deal. Though I guess we could trade him at the deadline and get something back instead of resigning him. I just get scared that too many people fall for production instead of if the player's overall game actually helps the team win... will this player in my line up help us win or get us to the cup? And as far as I can tell now, it's a resounding no for AA. I don't know the player well enough to say for sure... but it's a gut feeling about this guy for me.

 

[GOilers88]

And I do get that line of thinking. I'd just chalk it up to a bad decision by Holland. My fear, like I mentioned in another post, is that we sign him for a one year trial... he pops up good numbers but is questionable as far as actual proper play in helping the team WIN... then Holland signs him for something stupid based on decent production... like 4 x 5mil. I'd want to cut bait asap so we don't get fooled into some temporary decent numbers and sign a very overrated player to a long term deal. Though I guess we could trade him at the deadline and get something back instead of resigning him. I just get scared that too many people fall for production instead of if the player's overall game actually helps the team win... will this player in my line up help us win or get us to the cup? And as far as I can tell now, it's a resounding no for AA. I don't know the player well enough to say for sure... but it's a gut feeling about this guy for me.

I feel like being an Oilers fan has given you PTSD. I sort of understand it. but being afraid of signing a guy to a prove it deal in case he actually proves it seems...odd.

Like, he has a good year, earns a raise, and we walk away because he did what we needed and contributed, so now he's even more of a bad target? You lose me here.

If he comes anywhere near replicating his 30 goal season next year, those two 2nd were well beyond worth it. Seems like a fair gamble to me, at least until the halfway mark.

 

[MaxR11]

I feel like being an Oilers fan has given you PTSD. I sort of understand it. but being afraid of signing a guy to a prove it deal in case he actually proves it seems...odd.

Like, he has a good year, earns a raise, and we walk away because he did what we needed and contributed, so now he's even more of a bad target? You lose me here.

If he comes anywhere near replicating his 30 goal season next year, those two 2nd were well beyond worth it. Seems like a fair gamble to me, at least until the halfway mark.

That's my point... it's not all about numbers. You can have a 30 goal scorer that's a complete net negative player overall. Imo, I feel like AA (if he can even get back to being a 20-30 goal scorer) is just a guy you don't win with and is a liability on the team. He might "prove it" numbers-wise but he still may be that player that's more negative than his numbers indicate. People get way too caught up in goals, assists and points and not if those points COMBINED with his play, attitude, team play, compete, 200ft game etc etc is actually a positive for the team. So to sum up... he can score 27 goals but still be a net negative overall player/teammate but the numbers may dictate he gets 4-5 mil a year. No thanks.

 

[GOilers88]

That's my point... it's not all about numbers. You can have a 30 goal scorer that's a complete net negative player overall. Imo, I feel like AA (if he can even get back to being a 20-30 goal scorer) is just a guy you don't win with and is a liability on the team. He might "prove it" numbers-wise but he still may be that player that's more negative than his numbers indicate. People get way too caught up in goals, assists and points and not if those points COMBINED with his play, attitude, team play, compete, 200ft game etc etc is actually a positive for the team. So to sum up... he can score 27 goals but still be a net negative overall player/teammate but the numbers may dictate he gets 4-5 mil a year. No thanks.

I guess I just feel that if he puts up a season that garners a raise, he's probably helped the team in a positive way.

Agree to disagree I think.

 

[MaxR11]

I guess I just feel that if he puts up a season that garners a raise, he's probably helped the team in a positive way.

Agree to disagree I think.

Ideally... but we know how point totals/stats is king in negotiations of contracts. And ya, imo there's a lot more to a player (pos or neg) than just point totals.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I get it, I do. But the fact is two 2nds were paid, and if we aren't willing to give that cost more than a few weeks worth of play then I don't know what to say. Nobody even has a clue what he's going to be signed for, and people actually believe just walking away from the player and picks before he even has half a season to try and prove himself is actually a smart play. How does it even help the team to walk away from him before even negotiating a new contract?

I find that whole line of thought to be eerily reminiscent of the Decade of Darkness.

The picks are gone. AA was traded for so we could give him a try out and we could extend him for a year if needed. But Covid limited the tryout and the flat cap is limiting everything GMs do so his underwhelming performance in that tryout might have sealed his fate. We can't let bad trades affect future moves.

 

[LTIR]

So how much offense would we give up if we sign Ennis for 1M and walk away or trade AA?
Do we improve overall?

 

[space321]

And Sakic was being hailed as a complete and utter failure around here the entire time he hung on to Duchene. Then the narrative instantly flipped to Sakic is a goddamn genius.

General HF consensus' seem to be devoid of any sort of patience or forethought. At least in my opinion.

People flip narratives around here faster and more frequently than their own underwear. Literally game by game.

Had AA managed to turn a couple of those posts into goals nobody is even having this conversation. In fact I'd be willing to bet some of those he did nothing in the playoffs folks would be singing a new tune about how his game was starting to come around when it mattered.

Well personally I don't tend to flip narratives, and I tend to not follow general HF consensus. I just don't tend to form an opinion on things based on mainstream narratives (especially from the mainstream media). I called Hall-Larsson terrible from day 1. I did not believe in the Hitchcock kool-aid even though that guy could talk a loooooot, etc.


Here's my opinion on AA:
We overpaid by at least a 2nd round pick to get him, and his current play is not worth his QO. My opinion of Ken Holland has dropped since the trade deadline (and it already dropped before that due to the atrocious Kassian contract). If he gives AA a QO it will be a HUGE gamble, because I honestly don't think AA is the winger McDavid needs, and McDavid's winger should be priority #1 this off season. We saw Tippett's boneheaded decision to split up RNH/Drai/Yamamoto, yet the reason he did that is because McDavid lacks a winger.

 

[joestevens29]

So how much offense would we give up if we sign Ennis for 1M and walk away or trade AA?
Do we improve overall?

I've said it before I'd love to bring Ennis back, but him coming back would be with zero expectations.

His going to be coming off a serious injury with little time to really train. At soon to be 31 who knows if he ever gets back to the play he was at last year

 

[Slats432]

Trying to figure out why everyone wants to so quickly jettison a 26 year old speedy winger that scored 30 one year ago, after 13 games of play? There is about $15 Million I would try to get rid of first. What is the hardest thing to do in hockey? Score.

I am not sold on him, but I certainly would take a flyer on one year of him even at the qualifcation number. I see this as the classic, if we move him, he will break out.

 

[Mez]

So how much offense would we give up if we sign Ennis for 1M and walk away or trade AA?
Do we improve overall?

Ill tell you after next season.

 

[GOilers88]

Well personally I don't tend to flip narratives, and I tend to not follow general HF consensus. I just don't tend to form an opinion on things based on mainstream narratives (especially from the mainstream media). I called Hall-Larsson terrible from day 1. I did not believe in the Hitchcock kool-aid even though that guy could talk a loooooot, etc.


Here's my opinion on AA:
We overpaid by at least a 2nd round pick to get him, and his current play is not worth his QO. My opinion of Ken Holland has dropped since the trade deadline (and it already dropped before that due to the atrocious Kassian contract). If he gives AA a QO it will be a HUGE gamble, because I honestly don't think AA is the winger McDavid needs, and McDavid's winger should be priority #1 this off season. We saw Tippett's boneheaded decision to split up RNH/Drai/Yamamoto, yet the reason he did that is because McDavid lacks a winger.

I think the biggest misconception around the Oilers is this massive need to find a winger for McDavid. I really don't see that as a priority. I see a hole in the 3 spot and a puck moving defenseman as the most glaring issues.

McDavid will produce no matter who he plays with, as he always has.

 

[Slats432]

Here is another serious question for everyone. How many other players that are under 30 years old with good speed that have a 30 goal season under their belt can we add to the team at $3,000,000?

If it is my decision, qualify him and if it doesn't work in this upcoming season, then walk away.

 

[space321]

I think the biggest misconception around the Oilers is this massive need to find a winger for McDavid. I really don't see that as a priority. I see a hole in the 3 spot and a puck moving defenseman as the most glaring issues.

McDavid will produce no matter who he plays with, as he always has.

I don't get how people can look at this roster and think that having Kassian, Neal, Chiasson, AA being the best options for McDavid is not a problem...

We have four top 4D, although none are 1D, they can plug enough holes to stay afloat, especially if Nurse can play more consistently. Ship out Russell and use that 4M to get McDavid a Mike Hoffman or something, please for hte love of god, Mcdavid can't carry two scrubs the entire season.

Once we find a winger for McDavid, we will have TWO lines that can drive possession. Keep McDavid/Draisaitl separate and that means we will 40-45 minutes of the game where we can dominate. Without a winger, either Mcdavid or Draisaitl will be tasked with carrying around dead weight and both struggle to stay afloat for long stretches of time. We go from 40 minutes of domination, to 20 minutes of domination and 20 minutes of treading water. It won't matter who your 3C is at that point because no third line can make up 20 minutes per game like that.

 

[GOilers88]

I don't get how people can look at this roster and think that having Kassian, Neal, Chiasson, AA being the best options for McDavid is not a problem...

We have four top 4D, although none are 1D, they can plug enough holes to stay afloat, especially if Nurse can play more consistently. Ship out Russell and use that 4M to get McDavid a Mike Hoffman or something, please for hte love of god, Mcdavid can't carry two scrubs the entire season.

Once we find a winger for McDavid, we will have TWO lines that can drive possession. Keep McDavid/Draisaitl separate and that means we will 40-45 minutes of the game where we can dominate. Without a winger, either Mcdavid or Draisaitl will be tasked with carrying around dead weight and both struggle to stay afloat for long stretches of time. We go from 40 minutes of domination, to 20 minutes of domination and 20 minutes of treading water. It won't matter who your 3C is at that point because no third line can make up 20 minutes per game like that.

I don't think it's a problem because he's done nothing but put up 100+ point seasons with everyone. Even last year with injuries he would have posted another 100+.

Is it ideal? No. But going after some defensemen who can get him the puck, and someone to match up against the oppositions firepower in the 3 hole I think are much bigger issues.

McDavid getting an extra 25 points doesn't really matter much in my opinion.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Here is another serious question for everyone. How many other players that are under 30 years old with good speed that have a 30 goal season under their belt can we add to the team at $3,000,000?

If it is my decision, qualify him and if it doesn't work in this upcoming season, then walk away.

For me I’d try to get him signed to a deal that brings down the AAV in exchange for a two year deal. If you can get him signed to something like a 2 x 2 deal then you’re saving a million bucks this upcoming year but you also give yourself an opportunity that if after a full year they don’t feel he’s a fit then he’s still an asset you can trade and at least recoup something even if it’s only a 3 or 4 pick.

From his perspective he’s getting more money overall and an additional year guaranteed, whereas with his q/o if he has another bad season then it’s possible he could be one of these guys squeezed out of a job or having to take a near league min or pto.

 

[LTIR]

Trying to figure out why everyone wants to so quickly jettison a 26 year old speedy winger that scored 30 one year ago, after 13 games of play? There is about $15 Million I would try to get rid of first. What is the hardest thing to do in hockey? Score.

I am not sold on him, but I certainly would take a flyer on one year of him even at the qualifcation number. I see this as the classic, if we move him, he will break out.

The 'why' is his qualification offer.
If he signs for 1.3M-1.5M then you would not see many complainers.