Speculation: Anaheim and Expansion - Why the Ducks are in great shape

[Evergreen]

Scenario A - Anaheim either buys out Bieksa or asks him to waive, Ducks trade Vatanen prior to expansion - Vegas is left to choose from depth pieces

Scenario B - Anaheim and Vegas agree to a trade, hereby not forcing the Ducks into scenario A, and getting themselves stronger assets than they would have in scenario A. The Ducks give up a decent price now, to be able to trade Vatanen later to a more broad market.

In neither scenario does Vegas wind up actually having the chance to select Manson Or Vatanen. They did not have the leverage to say "make a deal with us or we take Manson" if Anaheim had the ability to manoevre there way into leaving Vegas with squat.

Again I think this is a "help me, help you" scenario, where Vegas and the Ducks agree to a fair price where Vegas gets a more than they would have, had they forced the Ducks into leaving them with very little.

You're right. That makes sense. I guess we will see what happens.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Mansons value >> Stoner + Petersson

Better be a big plus, Stoner adds negative value here too

They never had Manson, so they don't get to add his value into a deal.

 

[Tripod]

The options are as follow:

1. No deal is made. Vegas chooses Manson or Vatanen
2. Anaheim trades Vegas assets equivalent to what Vegas perceives as the difference in value between Manson and Vatanen to pick one of Manson or Vatanen over the other
3. Anaheim trades Vegas assets more valuable in Vegas' eyes than Manson or Vatanen to select a player other than Manson or Vatanen

In none of these scenarios is Anaheim in "great shape."

That's not true though.

Anaheim could have talked with LV and said this:

"we are going to ask Bieksa to waive. If he says no, we are buying him out"
"Then we are going to trade Vatanen for picks or ED exempt players"
"Then we are protecting Manson"
"So your choice will be Vermette, etc... To choose from"

"BUT DOING ALL THAT HURTS US AND HURTS LV"

"So instead, how about we (Anaheim) trade you a 1st or Theodore who both have more value than any exposed player we will leave you once we jump thru all the hoops"

"So your choice McPhee....do you want Vermette...or your choice of a 1st/Theodore?"

McPhee chooses option 2 which helps him AND Anaheim instead of option 1 that hurts LV and Anaheim and benefits a 3rd team.

 

[nbducksfan19]

What are your expectations on what the deal between LV and ANA looks like?

Either vats is traded to vegas as part of a deal or the trade will be in the amount Anaheim was willing to pay in order to trade Vats post ED as opposed to before ED -in that scenario probably like a b prospect and 2nd.

 

[Static]

Because those steps would have shook out better players for the expansion draft from other teams. Moving Manson and Vatanen to other teams would have made them expose other players. It's not just as simple as

"Well let me keep them or you get nothing". Making them move Vatanen and Manson would actually benefit vegas.

You could only take 1. Now moving those would actually shake out 2 or players that you like better.

If McPhee didn't want to deal then bieksa is bought out or waives and only vatanen is moved. That's it. It's not rocket science.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Ducks are losing a top prospect++ if Vegas is taking Stoner over Manson and Vatanen

 

[Evergreen]

That's not true though.

Anaheim could have talked with LV and said this:

"we are going to ask Bieksa to waive. If he says no, we are buying him out"
"Then we are going to trade Vatanen for picks or ED exempt players"
"Then we are protecting Manson"
"So your choice will be Vermette, etc... To choose from"

"BUT DOING ALL THAT HURTS US AND HURTS LV"

"So instead, how about we (Anaheim) trade you a 1st or Theodore who both have more value than any exposed player we will leave you once we jump thru all the hoops"

"So your choice McPhee....do you want Vermette...or your choice of a 1st/Theodore?"

Yeah, you're right. Makes sense.

 

[Flamesjustwin]

This is a blast to read. It started with the Ducks are in great shape and Bieska will waive straight down to LV will take peanuts not to select Manson or Vatanen. It will get better on Wednesday. Better than tv soap opera!

 

[Static]

That's not true though.

Anaheim could have talked with LV and said this:

"we are going to ask Bieksa to waive. If he says no, we are buying him out"
"Then we are going to trade Vatanen for picks or ED exempt players"
"Then we are protecting Manson"
"So your choice will be Vermette, etc... To choose from"

"BUT DOING ALL THAT HURTS US AND HURTS LV"

"So instead, how about we (Anaheim) trade you a 1st or Theodore who both have more value than any exposed player we will leave you once we jump thru all the hoops"

"So your choice McPhee....do you want Vermette...or your choice of a 1st/Theodore?"

McPhee chooses option 2 which helps him AND Anaheim instead of option 1 that hurts LV and Anaheim and benefits a 3rd team.

I feel like I'm seeing Jesus. Thank the Lord there is light, except I highly doubt the player is theo.

 

[dracom]

So the general consensus among Ducks fans is that McPhee is going to get a decent prospect and or a pick to select Clayton Stoner over Manson and Vatanen. And that this was agreed upon before expansion, as to not allow Vatanen to be traded before expansion, thus lessening McPhee's leverage.

Meanwhile, McPhee could have allowed the Ducks to trade Vatanen, and still selected Manson.

So. I'm going to apologize for not sharing your viewpoint here, and I'll be happy to be proven wrong when LGVK ends up with neither Manson, Vatanen, or a ton of Ducks assets.

However, I'm proceeding cautiously, as I have a very hard time understanding why McPhee would hamper himself like this.

Guess we'll find out Wednesday.

No, you're forgetting that if there wasn't a deal then we would have asked Bieksa to waive (remember BM didn't and said the deal they had meant there was no reason to ask.) or just buy him out. Then we protect Manson anyways.

 

[Marlander93]

Lmao what a mess by the ducks

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Ducks are losing a top prospect++ if Vegas is taking Stoner over Manson and Vatanen

In the universe where that deal was on the table, sure. In the current universe, where Vegas never had or would ever have Manson or Vatanen, the deal will look somewhat different.

 

[BusQuets]

No matter how this turns out Vegas will get the most from Ducks out of any other team in the NHL.

 

[Static]

Is this how the Red Cross feels?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Anaheim fans are too much lol. I can't believe one thinks a mediocre prospect and unspecified pick are enough to get them to pick Stoner over Manson

 

[nbducksfan19]

I feel like I'm seeing Jesus. Thank the Lord there is light, except I highly doubt the player is theo.

Everyone should read that post, cleans up some of the ignorance.

 

[silverfish]

No, you're forgetting that if there wasn't a deal then we would have asked Bieksa to waive (remember BM didn't and said the deal they had meant there was no reason to ask.) or just buy him out. Then we protect Manson anyways.

Okay, dream scenario.

Ducks trade Vatanen.
Ducks ask Bieksa to waive.
Bieksa waives, because that is a given, for some reason.
Ducks protect Manson.

LVGK now has to select Stoner, and they lose the decent prospect and or pick that was going to be gifted to them along with Stoner had ANA left Vatanen and Manson exposed, like they are today.

See how this doesn't make sense to me from an LVGK point of view?

Is the 'decent prospect and or pick' worth it to LVGK to allow Anaheim, a division rival, out of this mess free of charge?

I wouldn't allow it.

But hey, like I said, we'll see Wednesday, right?

 

[Exit Dose]

The more salary they take the better our payment gets, I think. Losing Stoner might cost us something better than Petersson, but I'd still be okay with it.

I still think the highest that the prospect goes is to Jones. Murray did talk casually about his weaknesses as a player at the select a seat. I figure Theo, Steel, Montour, and Ritchie will still be here, but who knows.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

"There's no chance in hell Bieksa will take up a slot" but now suddenly anaheim fans are experts again and everyone else is dumb and biased

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

Scenario A - Anaheim either buys out Bieksa or asks him to waive, Ducks trade Vatanen prior to expansion - Vegas is left to choose from depth pieces

Scenario B - Anaheim and Vegas agree to a trade, hereby not forcing the Ducks into scenario A, and getting themselves stronger assets than they would have in scenario A. The Ducks give up a decent price now, to be able to trade Vatanen later to a more broad market.

In neither scenario does Vegas wind up actually having the chance to select Manson Or Vatanen. They did not have the leverage to say "make a deal with us or we take Manson" if Anaheim had the ability to manoevre there way into leaving Vegas with squat.

Again I think this is a "help me, help you" scenario, where Vegas and the Ducks agree to a fair price where Vegas gets a more than they would have, had they forced the Ducks into leaving them with very little.

I believe you have it exactly right.
Where we probably differ is in what each of us believe is a "Decent price".

 

[oobga]

Vegas probably getting offers as we speak from teams around the league for one of the Anaheim D. Price to protect both is probably going through the roof.

 

[nbducksfan19]

Anaheim fans are too much lol. I can't believe one thinks a mediocre prospect and unspecified pick are enough to get them to pick Stoner over Manson

Good to see you still don't get it. Vegas and the ducks already made a deal, they were never going to have a chance for Manson/vats if they didn't make a deal.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Good to see you still don't get it. Vegas and the ducks already made a deal, they were never going to have a chance for Manson/vats if they didn't make a deal.

Yes they made a deal. The suggested deal from a ducks fan was still way off base

 

[Flamesjustwin]

No, you're forgetting that if there wasn't a deal then we would have asked Bieksa to waive (remember BM didn't and said the deal they had meant there was no reason to ask.) or just buy him out. Then we protect Manson anyways.

This is assuming you could have made a deal to trade Vatanen which would be hard given everyone pretty much knowing who they wanted to protect and other GM's knowing the situation the Ducks were in. They probably did offer him in trade and got lowballed big time. Even if they had come to an agreement you then have to expose another forward you would have protected to protect the new guy. You really think McPhee didn't know what was going on in regards to offers on Vatanen? The very best I can see Anaheim making out would be Theodore+2017 1st. I think it will be higher.

 

[oobga]

Good to see you still don't get it. Vegas and the ducks already made a deal, they were never going to have a chance for Manson/vats if they didn't make a deal.

Ducks would have protected 5D? Bieska's ego wouldn't have let him waive.