Friedman: ANA - Leafs Montour

[Man Bear Pig]

Kapanen as well couldn't crack the roster 2 years ago because he wasn't good enough lol.

This is pointless. Yes you should. What a dumb question

Kapanen wasnt on the team because he was going to be buried on the fourth line. First line AHL minutes vs 4th nhl minutes. Do the math. You have no clue what you're talking about.

 

[sittler rules!!!]

Would be solid for the Leafs but Anaheim has no incentive to trade Montour. With their D core and goaltending along with the right coaching hire they are a few forward additions to being a real contender again.

"a few forward additions" something the Leafs have in spades.

 

[Scott Stevens]

"a few forward additions" something the Leafs have in spades.

Apparently the manager has said none of them are going anywhere. At least the ones anyone would give a riperoo about.

 

[sittler rules!!!]

Would love to have Montour but haven't seen him play enough to put a value on him. Like others have said, the leafs would have to unload Marleau or Zaitsev or let Gardiner walk to even have a chance at signing him.

Gardiner is good as gone anyway.
And i will enter this gong show with Nylander and a prospect for Montour and Silverberg.

 

[Tit]

Trade Zaitsev to NYI for a 7th
Then I'd go all in on Montour

picks + sandin + bracco

Not trading Nylander or Kap for him though.
Doesnt make sense for us to fill a hole by making a new one.
We gotta go all in these next 3 seasons.

 

[zeke]

I don't know much about Kapanen. But I do know enough about Toronto's roster to say that at some point in the next few years (possibly, but not necessarily now), Toronto is going to need to trade one of its elite forwards (an embarrassment of riches from a goal starved duck fan's perspective) for a position of need (defense). It may not be for Montour, but at some point Toronto will need to make that type of trade.

Montour was an elite lacrosse player who didn't even focus on hockey until he was 18 or so - he wasn't drafted until he was 20. He's a bit older, but his potential is just being tapped.

the leafs have a very good defense (better than, say, the ducks) with very good dmen prospects on the verge.

they don't need to be trading their forward talent for flawed depth dmen on bottom feeders.

 

[zeke]

Montour, if he's on the block, would be one of the most sought after young d-man because of his contract and skill set. He'll never be a number 1 defenseman, but he's an elite puck moving d-man with upside. He's a top 4 defenseman who plays on the power play on pretty much every team in the league, with perhaps a few exceptions.

In its last game, Toronto iced Hainsey (ancient) and Zaitsev (medicore with an albatross contract) for over 19 minutes. Dermott for 14. I think it pretty clear that Montour would be in your top 4. If as you claim Montour "stinks", what does that say about your own team's players? And of course, that's the point. You have lost all objectivity. Tell everyone that Montour is awful and not top 4, when he would be in the top 4 on your team.

And for the record, Montour is exactly the type of player Toronto needs. Young, productive, cost controlled d-man. How will Toronto's defense look next year when Gardiner leaves due to cap issues? If they don't win a cup, it will be because Toronto's defense isn't good enough. But you're right, they wouldn't want Montour.

Montour is not elite at anything. he is a pretty skater, though.

Montour is not especially young, not especially productive, and not especially cost effective. The Leafs don't need $3.4m borderline top 4 dmen. Montour wouldn't even crack the Leafs PP.

The Leafs Dcorps is damn good, for the record.

The issue here is that hfboards is still under the delusion that the ducks have better dmen than the Leafs. They do not.

 

[Palio]

Calder Cup MVP means jack. NHL Rookie pacing for 50PTs on an Offensively elite team is not as impressive as you think it is. Simple as that.

Simple as that? How many rookies are pacing for 50 points while only playing 12:42 per game? I’m sure there’s lots of them if it’s not that impressive and simple as that?

 

[joepeps]

With our scouts? Yes I would. We found Manson in the sixth round and you’re salivating over him. We also found Montour. He’s 55th overall by the way. And you salivate over him as well.

Ducks want picks

Dont make me go through all your misses lol. Your sounding really stupid and im trying to help

 

[StephenPeat]

Try to offer up less than a top 4 D for Gourde to Tampa fans and see how far it gets you.

You call the Leafs an elite offensive team, and Johnsson is the 6th best producing forward on that elite offense. Why would he suddenly be less than a top 6 forward on a non-elite offense with less competition for soft offensive minutes and PP time?

For exactly the same reason that anyone else doesn't produce similar offensive output when surrounded by less capable complementary players and linemates. Its not rocket science. Johnsson is currently a 2nd-3rd line tweener and those types of players are one of the more common commodities in the league. Put him on any team other than the Leafs without above-average Center support and there's no question he DOESN'T put up the same numbers. It's GREAT that you think every player's numbers will magically hold or improve when put in worse situations, it's NOT very REALISTIC. Johnsson has spent considerable amounts of time playing with Matthews, Tavares, Kapanen, and Marner. Its not just DELUSIONAL to suggest he would put up similar numbers playing with inferior players it's IDIOTIC.

 

[Raging Bull]

Lol @ Nylander in a deal for Montour. Dubas would be crucified.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Ducks fans still overrating their D holy. They act like they have 4 top pairing D back there when in reality their defense is worse than Toronto's. I woudn't take a single D off their backend over Rielly or even Muzzin. Fowler and Gardiner are pretty damn close players. Manson is a nice piece but we just got Muzzin who is the same style of player.

I'm sure the Leafs would love to get some RD but they won't be paying some top pairing D price for over rated bums. This is Muzzin aprt 2 where Leaf fans were laughed at for saying Kapenen/Nylander were not moving and neither were Sandin/ Liljegren and people were like "LOL Leaf fans want to get without giving" and what happened? The "B" prospects people mocked returned him and now they are suddenly good.

Maybe you guys should listen to Leaf fans about their players now.. We've been a lot more correct over the past 5 years than this site has been in all predictions.

 

[Raging Bull]

I dont think Johnsson has ever played a shift with either Tavares or Marner let alone considerable time. Could be wrong

Edit I guess he did play there briefly maybe after Christmas?.

 

[StephenPeat]

Simple as that? How many rookies are pacing for 50 points while only playing 12:42 per game? I’m sure there’s lots of them if it’s not that impressive and simple as that?

How many other rookies are playing on lines with Matthews, Marner, and Tavares (clearly not at the same time but you get the point)?

 

[Tit]

Ducks fans still overrating their D holy. They act like they have 4 top pairing D back there when in reality their defense is worse than Toronto's. I woudn't take a single D off their backend over Rielly or even Muzzin. Fowler and Gardiner are pretty damn close players. Manson is a nice piece but we just got Muzzin who is the same style of player.

I'm sure the Leafs would love to get some RD but they won't be paying some top pairing D price for over rated bums. This is Muzzin aprt 2 where Leaf fans were laughed at for saying Kapenen/Nylander were not moving and neither were Sandin/ Liljegren and people were like "LOL Leaf fans want to get without giving" and what happened? The "B" prospects people mocked returned him and now they are suddenly good.

Maybe you guys should listen to Leaf fans about their players now.. We've been a lot more correct over the past 5 years than this site has been in all predictions.

We aren't trying to replace Rielly and Muzzin.
We're trying to replace Hainsey and Zaitsev.
Which they have an abundance of D better than the latter 2.

 

[DFF]

Maybe you guys should listen to Leaf fans about their players now.. We've been a lot more correct over the past 5 years than this site has been in all predictions.

not really, I know some Leaf fans I dont ever want to listen to on their opinion on Leafs players

 

[StephenPeat]

I dont think Johnsson has ever played a shift with either Tavares or Marner let alone considerable time. Could be wrong

Edit I guess he did play there briefly maybe after Christmas?.

According to LeftWing Lock he's played CONSIDERABLE time with BOTH. They represent two of his three most common line combinations.

 

[Liferleafer]

We aren't trying to replace Rielly and Muzzin.
We're trying to replace Hainsey and Zaitsev.
Which they have an abundance of D better than the latter 2.

Everybody has D better than those 2....that ain't saying much.

 

[Raging Bull]

According to LeftWing Lock he's played CONSIDERABLE time with BOTH. They represent two of his three most common line combinations.

He should play there more, hes pretty good and I'm sure they had good results. Hyman has been glued to Tavares and Marner but Johnsson would be a big upgrade.

I would also guess that just because those are his most common linemates doesn't mean hes played a ton with them. Johnsson hasn't stuck on any line really and has been all over the place at any given time.

 

[Groo]

not really, I know some Leaf fans I dont ever want to listen to on their opinion on Leafs players

That's some funny shit he's trying to peddle

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Judging a defenseman by point production is silly.

Montour has been misused (not much power play time) and, whether you like it or not, its hard to get points (your chosen metric, not mine) when you play on a team that barely scores. That is a mathematical fact. The ducks have been particularly poor offensively this year, but the 2 years prior weren't much better.

When he's been given a bigger role and top power play time (when getzlaf or fowler were hurt), he's produced, both points and with better play.

As another duck fan pointed out, Montour has been inconsistent this year - just like the rest of the team. Personally, I'd much rather see Fowler traded and the ducks keep Montour.

Just for your info, Montour gets 2 mins of PP a game. Rielly, Matthews, JT etc get like 2 mins and 30 seconds. He certainly is getting a decent amount of PP time.

 

[96]

Kapanen wasnt on the team because he was going to be buried on the fourth line. First line AHL minutes vs 4th nhl minutes. Do the math. You have no clue what you're talking about.

Yea that guys posts are really bad. Much less knowledgeable than most posters on here.

Also worth mentioning, Kapanen was the last cut by the Penguins after being drafted (18yo 22oa)

 

[Tit]

Everybody has,D better tgan those 2....that ain't saying much.

I agree, but we should still be looking at all possible replacement scenarios.
Hainsey is gone this season via UFA
Zaitsev is an anchor we need to cut bait from.
Even if Liljegren makes a big step forward (and that's an if),
we still have one RHD to replace.

 

[StephenPeat]

He should play there more, hes pretty good and I'm sure they had good results. Hyman has been glued to Tavares and Marner but Johnsson would be a big upgrade.

I would also guess that just because those are his most common linemates doesn't mean hes played a ton with them. Johnsson hasn't stuck on any line really and has been all over the place at any given time.

What? It means he's played approximately 2/3 of his TOTAL TOI this season on a line with Marner/Tavares OR Matthews/Kapanen. I'm going to take a wild guess that more than 2/3 of his TOTAL ES PTs this season have come on either of those two lines. Are you sure you even watch the Leafs?

 

[glucker]

Montour, if he's on the block, would be one of the most sought after young d-man because of his contract and skill set. He'll never be a number 1 defenseman, but he's an elite puck moving d-man with upside. He's a top 4 defenseman who plays on the power play on pretty much every team in the league, with perhaps a few exceptions.

In its last game, Toronto iced Hainsey (ancient) and Zaitsev (medicore with an albatross contract) for over 19 minutes. Dermott for 14. I think it pretty clear that Montour would be in your top 4. If as you claim Montour "stinks", what does that say about your own team's players? And of course, that's the point. You have lost all objectivity. Tell everyone that Montour is awful and not top 4, when he would be in the top 4 on your team.

And for the record, Montour is exactly the type of player Toronto needs. Young, productive, cost controlled d-man. How will Toronto's defense look next year when Gardiner leaves due to cap issues? If they don't win a cup, it will be because Toronto's defense isn't good enough. But you're right, they wouldn't want Montour.

Either you don’t watch the Leafs much, or you’re intentionally being intellectually dishonest... but Babcock loves having Hainsey and Zaitsev out there defending leads... and the Leafs held the lead for quite a bit. If Montour were on the team along with those two, he probably would have also seen less time... just like Gardiner, Muzzin, and Dermott did.

Hell, 5-on-5, Hainsey saw more ice time than any Leafs player... and he also put up a dominating 63% Corsi.

I don’t think Montour sucks... I’d love him on the team and have no problem giving up value to get him... but using a 1 game sample size, and making claims based solely on TOI is just not useful in any discussion, unless you’re trying to intentionally mislead people.