an honest challange

[LSCII]

I think many of use who have been around a long time here would get a laugh at the irony. Back in the day the OP was constantly making trade proposals, which is cool, but just a little ironic based on this thread.

Suggesting a fan web site won't have all the elements of fandemonium is just not based in realism. Besides, information delivery has changed enough to even catch the principals unaware. For example TSN broke the Stewart to Minny trade, to Stewart himself!

Yeah, those Michael Karstom posts were more like books and were pretty legendary here back when it was new. I never got through all of them, but I did give him credit for taking the time to write them. In this case though, it comes off like an old man yelling at kids to stay off his lawn.

 

[Duguay]

Sportsnet today gave Chiarelli a failing grade.He ranked 19th among GMs .His moves got a C and they said what he did was not gonna cut it.
So I say what difference does it make if there was a leak or not?He still failed to fix things.Defence full of holes and no scoring.Call it negative but it not lying.

Personally I couldn't agree with anyone who would give him a trade deadline passing grade. He took his shopping list to the grocery store, choose to ignore it, and then bought other things.

The team is not in a better position to win the Cup, unlike some of their adversaries who did strengthen their position. I don't fault any fans for wanting to win the Cup every year. PC is on record as saying that that is not only his mandate, but also his personal goal.

Saying that, I agree with Marc Savard, who tweeted yesterday "to get off of Chiarelli's back. His record over the past 5 years speaks for itself."

PC doesn't get a passing grade on this report card from me. I look for improvement on the next one. And, yes, agreed Marc, PC has a ring and deserves some room to move.

But, the fans are watching. As they should.

 

[22Brad Park]

Personally I couldn't agree with anyone who would give him a trade deadline passing grade. He took his shopping list to the grocery store, choose to ignore it, and then bought other things.

The team is not in a better position to win the Cup, unlike some of their adversaries who did strengthen their position. I don't fault any fans for wanting to win the Cup every year. PC is on record as saying that that is not only his mandate, but also his personal goal.

Saying that, I agree with Marc Savard, who tweeted yesterday "to get off of Chiarelli's back. His record over the past 5 years speaks for itself."

PC doesn't get a passing grade on this report card from me. I look for improvement on the next one. And, yes, agreed Marc, PC has a ring and deserves some room to move.

But, the fans are watching. As they should.

Very fair post.

 

[Duguay]

Yeah, those Michael Karstom posts were more like books and were pretty legendary here back when it was new. I never got through all of them, but I did give him credit for taking the time to write them. In this case though, it comes off like an old man yelling at kids to stay off his lawn.

yes indeed

 

[BostonPC]

Personally I couldn't agree with anyone who would give him a trade deadline passing grade. He took his shopping list to the grocery store, choose to ignore it, and then bought other things.

The team is not in a better position to win the Cup, unlike some of their adversaries who did strengthen their position. I don't fault any fans for wanting to win the Cup every year. PC is on record as saying that that is not only his mandate, but also his personal goal.

Saying that, I agree with Marc Savard, who tweeted yesterday "to get off of Chiarelli's back. His record over the past 5 years speaks for itself."

PC doesn't get a passing grade on this report card from me. I look for improvement on the next one. And, yes, agreed Marc, PC has a ring and deserves some room to move.

But, the fans are watching. As they should.

I don't think most rational fans have a problem with a down year if it is justified through injuries and if older players start digressing and younger players are not quite there YET to make up the difference. But when they blow drafts for several years... scrape the ceiling of the cap... and make stupid decisions as a result of it then you have to take a closer look at the operation.

 

[Duguay]

I don't think most rational fans have a problem with a down year if it is justified through injuries and if older players start digressing and younger players are not quite there YET to make up the difference. But when they blow drafts for several years... scrape the ceiling of the cap... and make stupid decisions as a result of it then you have to take a closer look at the operation.

4-5 years ago it was really looking like PC was shaping this team up as a force to be reckoned with for many years to come. I think we all shared that thought, and even saw his thought processes lay out before us.

He could do no wrong. His course was certain.

The Bruins may still be that. Even the juggernauts like Detroit, Chicago, Pittsburgh and LA have had that 'down' year to re-adjust cap issues, age, etc.

PC deserves to right this ship, but question is; are we LA, Pittsburgh and Chicago or are we just another Vancouver?

Fair question, no?

 

[Scotto74]

You'd be surprised to find out how many agents actually work out the trades.

Recent most notable one: Vancouver Canucks didn't trade Luongo. His agent, Pat Brisson, worked out that trade with Florida and Vancouver accepted.

Not sure how widely known that is, someone else can google it if they want.

that is a very cool piece of info. I didn't realize that agents set up some trades and the GM's just ok it after.

Love having you around Dom I am going to tell people this over the weekend and seem wicked smat.

 

[DKH]

Can anyone show me even 1 single insider rumor leaked to us or twitter that chiarelli was after connolly or talbot or that cunningham was going on waivers or caron was bout to ve dealt... or any of it?

I guess we might find a rumor we were offering a draft pick

Seriously people... how can we continue to believe we know all of chiarellis thoughts when NOTHING ever gets leaked?

Its the same every year

But im ready for someone to show me im wrong

Bunch of frauds. Broke my magic 8 ball, removed mirrors, and told the neighborhood kids 'to get off my snow bank'

 

[Roll 4 Lines]

There are a few who post here who do have contacts in and knowledge of the league and it's teams, and these posters are always careful to clarify that they're simply passing along hints of things that have been discussed, not that are definitely going to happen.

I, for one, and extremely grateful that these insiders do offer us tidbits and hints to liven up my otherwise tedious existence!

 

[bb_fan]

Hope not. Thanks to cryptic leaks by guys like Dom we kinda have a feel for what is going on behind the scenes. For example we know thanks to leaks that Chia was interested in Stewart, but just because he didn't get him doesn't make these rumors not true.

hence my confusion on the challenge.....

 

[DKH]

last night while watching Comcast Early Edition hosted by Lou Merloni they show Chiarelli sitting at Wilmington with Neely, JFJ, Claude and others up top; then Chia at the Garden open practice with Sweeney and Neely; and then standing with Kirk, just the two of them and Kirk is doing all the talking and Chiarelli just nodding (maybe if Kirk let Chia speak we get a scoop)

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

So, on an internet fan board people are not supposed to bat possibilities and rumours around? Never going to happen. It's why many people come here.

of course not... I love doing that.

what im saying is we aren't suppose to fight to the death over how chiarelli was attempting to get karberle for kessel and had to settle for 2 first round picks instead

or how we almost dealt ray bourque and cam neely for a couple of fast grey hound dogs

its this... "i hate chiarelli because he wants to trade for Chris Philips" type of posting that really gets tiresome.

I don't mind a debate over whether we should trade for chris phillip... as you point out im one of the biggest players in participating in the merits of trading for player A or player B but I call B.S. on this very vocal segment of the board membership that uses rumors to fuel their agenda of critism over chiarelli.

its the critism of chiarelli that is being fueled by rumors that Im addressing here... not the rumors themselves.

although as a second point of argument.. I do wish to point out that once again this year all of us fans that made suggestions for trades were JUST AS ACCURATE as all the insiders were. Often I see board members say they think fan participation here is 'garbage' and a 'waste of space' and how they wish that there was a thread for 'only true rumors'

sorry, but there is almost zero difference in the accuracy of people like Darren dregor or nick kypros or eklund and the rumors they toss out from the inside... and the rumors I toss out as some guy just having fun.

 

[Ice Nine]

In my experience (albeit, I'm pretty new) but everything I've seen that either Dom or DKH have said on here, about things they've heard, has turned out to be credible.

Obviously, they're not here to leak insider info, but they definitely have been great contributors in providing insights we wouldn't other have, especially not reading Haggs.

 

[DKH]

You know, a lot of stuff gets heard and 99% of it can't be let out for obvious reasons.

From just this morning

Dominic Tiano @dominictiano · 16m 16 minutes ago
Carl Soderberg news? Twitter tonight. Be here.

Sean Smith ‏@sgsmith16 15m15 minutes ago
@dominictiano teaser

Andrea Gail ‏@GailHurd 4m4 minutes ago
@sgsmith16 @dominictiano he is a tease. I'm his GF & he won't even tell me!

I will say my favorite Dom story is watching game 3 of the Finals in 2013 at ice level with LF and my daughter and someone asks what is wrong with Hossa. I know Dom has a friend in the Chicago front office and I know he told me he had talked to him recently- so I texted Dom standing near the bench and one minute later Dom texted back what was Hossa was out for. There was a lot of questions on what the injury was but Dom had it right then and it was verified after the series what he texted me.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I believe that Connelly and Talbot were fall back options if he could not land anyone better. Last season Chiarelli admitted in his press conference that he was working out a bigger trade and couldn't get it done. I suspect this year was the same.

I believe you are right but this is only a guess of you and me... certainly there was no insider info to this effect being talked about prior to the deadline.

whether you are correct or not doesn't change the facts. this year.. last year... the year before... chiarelli never leaks his trades.

if florida is shopping Nathan Horton a few of us here say we should get him, but no one says dennis wideman is headed to florida before the deal is done. no one says we are after Gregory Campbell too

I said we should get Nathan Horton when he was available. I also said we should get marian hossa. a lot of people here thought we tried to get hossa. how hard did we try? how legitimate of a rumor was it?

im not saying that chiarelli wasn't trying to get chris stewart... but sitting in my living room, I knew he should at least inquire about stewart. common sense says he should at least make the phone call. its not shocking to me that chiarelli would ask about chris stewart. what was chiarelli offering? im unconvinced that any insider knew the details of what chiarelli was offering better than I.

the insiders said buffalo wanted too much... but in the end they settled for a second. does this mean chiarelli wasn't offering a second? obviously chiarelli's interest in stewart was a lot less than what the insiders were suggesting.

that's my point... not that insiders know about talks taking place. I believe that they do know about talks... im just saying that insiders don't know the details of the talks and yet many posters here will get into heated arguments over the 'details'

my post here is mostly to tell everyone lighten up and treat it as fun if you have fun... ignore it if you don't have fun... but take it for what it is, just rumors

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

In my experience (albeit, I'm pretty new) but everything I've seen that either Dom or DKH have said on here, about things they've heard, has turned out to be credible.

Obviously, they're not here to leak insider info, but they definitely have been great contributors in providing insights we wouldn't other have, especially not reading Haggs.

not only do they share info that is highly valued to a lot of us on the board here... but I think they are two of the nicest/most reasoned vets of this board here too. any list of my top 10 favorite posters to read has these two guys right at the top

 

[DKH]

In my experience (albeit, I'm pretty new) but everything I've seen that either Dom or DKH have said on here, about things they've heard, has turned out to be credible.

Obviously, they're not here to leak insider info, but they definitely have been great contributors in providing insights we wouldn't other have, especially not reading Haggs.

I'm no insider believe me, those guys like Kirk and Dom do who are at the rink and scout and cover the games- I just like to rant and actually need to chill out (with Knight gone I expect to return to some form of normalcy)

most of these writers have sources around the leagues- as Bob Seger explained 'I used her, and she used me'....thats how it works

 

[LSCII]

of course not... I love doing that.

what im saying is we aren't suppose to fight to the death over how chiarelli was attempting to get karberle for kessel and had to settle for 2 first round picks instead

or how we almost dealt ray bourque and cam neely for a couple of fast grey hound dogs

its this... "i hate chiarelli because he wants to trade for Chris Philips" type of posting that really gets tiresome.

I don't mind a debate over whether we should trade for chris phillip... as you point out im one of the biggest players in participating in the merits of trading for player A or player B but I call B.S. on this very vocal segment of the board membership that uses rumors to fuel their agenda of critism over chiarelli.

its the critism of chiarelli that is being fueled by rumors that Im addressing here... not the rumors themselves.

although as a second point of argument.. I do wish to point out that once again this year all of us fans that made suggestions for trades were JUST AS ACCURATE as all the insiders were. Often I see board members say they think fan participation here is 'garbage' and a 'waste of space' and how they wish that there was a thread for 'only true rumors'

sorry, but there is almost zero difference in the accuracy of people like Darren dregor or nick kypros or eklund and the rumors they toss out from the inside... and the rumors I toss out as some guy just having fun.

You keep refuting this as if it never happened, but it did. It was well documented. It was thisclose to happening but fell apart over who was giving and getting the first round pick. Burke commented on it in the papers. Chiarelli commented on it in the papers. It was well documented. Several posters here provided you with links talking about how it fell apart, yet you still persist. It's nonsense. And this thread is also nonsense. You don't have to believe it if you don't want, but it's well known and accepted to have occurred by pretty much everyone, including the two GMs who were involved, FFS. Do yourself a favor and let it go already.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

You know, a lot of stuff gets heard and 99% of it can't be let out for obvious reasons.

From just this morning

Dominic Tiano @dominictiano · 16m 16 minutes ago
Carl Soderberg news? Twitter tonight. Be here.

Sean Smith ‏@sgsmith16 15m15 minutes ago
@dominictiano teaser

Andrea Gail ‏@GailHurd 4m4 minutes ago
@sgsmith16 @dominictiano he is a tease. I'm his GF & he won't even tell me!

im hoping this means hes signed... but as much as that would be wonderful news it still is sort of more evidence of what im talking about specifically reguarding the naming of multiple moving parts in a trade deal that goes down between 2 organizations.

lets take for example the famous kessel for karberle 'legend'

now as forelore has it chiarelli/burke were discussion a deal where chiarelli wanted a first and karberle for kessel and burke wanted kessel and a first for karberle. ive had debate with poster here who quotes news paper articles quoting insiders that this is gospel.

so... lets say either burke or chiarelli did leak this info to the press... ok... now my point is that one or the other guy maybe leaked something... ok, but even the gm themselves didn't know the exact trade.

later on when the smoke cleared, burke said that there was some discussions but they broke down over confusion of a first round pick. this is LEGAL for burke to say because first round picks ARENT TAMPERING but it would be ILLEGLE for burke to name all the actual bruin property players that were in discussion.

so while I say that a tuned in insider from the Toronto media might have 'heard' that burke was trying to do a deal with boston... and could put 2and2 together to speculate it involved kessel cause we were very openly shopping him... I don't believe that Toronto insider could have known all the pieces chiarelli was wanting for kessel. even burke didn't know that himself so how could he have leaked it???

but as for this tease dom... yes I believe very much people with true insider access like yourself get news from the team reguarding the team and its business before press release is done. even here in the Edmonton market, the team often will schedule a press release for later in the day or the next day and very quickly we hear some insider say its to announce a new coach... or reguards business details of the arena.. or is to announce a player signing.

insiders definitely get way more news in advance about the team's day-to-day affairs than us keyboard warriors ever will sitting at home in Edmonton playing fantasy gm.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

You keep refuting this as if it never happened, but it did. It was well documented. It was thisclose to happening but fell apart over who was giving and getting the first round pick. Burke commented on it in the papers. Chiarelli commented on it in the papers. It was well documented. Several posters here provided you with links talking about how it fell apart, yet you still persist. It's nonsense. And this thread is also nonsense. You don't have to believe it if you don't want, but it's well known and accepted to have occurred by pretty much everyone, including the two GMs who were involved, FFS. Do yourself a favor and let it go already.

I don't deny that a trade opportunity might have been discussed where a first round pick was confused between boston/Toronto. obviously the principals commented on it so it would be foolish for me to say there never was any talks. and if both guys say the other guy got confused over a first rounder than so be it.

to me there's a huge leap behind two gm's saying the other guy got confused over a first rounder and then saying chiarelli was basically 'crying' because he couldn't get karberle and a first for kessel or saying that chiarelli refused to ask for more in return because he was determined that only karberle and a first would be the perfect return for kessel.

if you say there was dialed in insider info that knew every single piece of the trade being discussed... you have much more faith in insider info than I do. every trade that I saw going down at the deadline had the insiders on their twitter saying 'one second im still waiting for details' and 'player has been dealt, we are still waiting for the team'

and 'we have an admendment to the deal the pick is a third rounder in 2015 not a 4th rounder as earlier reported.'

these insiders that we are so willing to argue tooth and nail over as gospel sources were catching up to every single trade as it went down, and were repeatedly giving out incorrect information or partial information all day long

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Yeah, I never understand why some folks want to stymie a discussion if it interests people. I also laugh at the OP's premise because nearly all the deals that happened at the deadline were not reported, so saying none of the B's deals were rumored is meaningless.

I am glad I gave you a laugh as laughing is healthy... where did you get the idea that I was taking shot at our own insiders?

I was just saying chiarelli doesn't leak trades info.

my post IS NOT AN ATTACK ON INSIDERS but rather an attempt to wake up some negative posters here who will use any opportunity to make an attack on chiarelli. chiarelli can be attacked for many reasons if someone is dead set on attacking him... but attacking him because of some unfounded rumor about a trade potential that was possibly never truly on the board is kind of ridiculous.

that's my point... that's what im saying... I like rumors... I want rumors... but I will never once in any post I ever make here say that a rumor is the same thing as a real trade. when I judge chiarelli on what he has done/not done I stick to the real trades and to be honest, im pretty happy that we won a cup when chiaelli avoided trading chara to Edmonton and avoided trading lucic to montreal and avoided trading Bergeron to Toronto and avoided trading Thomas to Philadelphia.

because if we want to give him crap for almost trading kessel to Toronto than he does deserve credit for not trading these guys to the teams that wanted them right?

 

[LSCII]

http://www.fiveminutesforfighting.com/2012/08/tomas-kaberle-trade-rumour-history.html

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=4485942

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-tomas-kaberle-phil-kessel-trade-went-through

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...kaberle-blockbuster+&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

http://nesn.com/2011/02/report-bruins-finalizing-trade-with-maple-leafs-for-tomas-kaberle/

http://leafschatter.blogspot.com/2011/02/brian-burkes-next-trade-part-4-tomas.html

http://www.thestar.com/sports/the_spin/2011/02/kaberle_on_the_move.html

http://m.weei.com/sports/boston/bru.../06/27/five-things-we-learned-nhl-draft-night

 

[LSCII]

I don't deny that a trade opportunity might have been discussed where a first round pick was confused between boston/Toronto. obviously the principals commented on it so it would be foolish for me to say there never was any talks. and if both guys say the other guy got confused over a first rounder than so be it.

to me there's a huge leap behind two gm's saying the other guy got confused over a first rounder and then saying chiarelli was basically 'crying' because he couldn't get karberle and a first for kessel or saying that chiarelli refused to ask for more in return because he was determined that only karberle and a first would be the perfect return for kessel.

if you say there was dialed in insider info that knew every single piece of the trade being discussed... you have much more faith in insider info than I do. every trade that I saw going down at the deadline had the insiders on their twitter saying 'one second im still waiting for details' and 'player has been dealt, we are still waiting for the team'

and 'we have an admendment to the deal the pick is a third rounder in 2015 not a 4th rounder as earlier reported.'

these insiders that we are so willing to argue tooth and nail over as gospel sources were catching up to every single trade as it went down, and were repeatedly giving out incorrect information or partial information all day long

They interviewed Burke on the draft floor about this trade and why it fell apart. It nearly happened, so I don't get why you're going out of your way to dispel it. I don't care what insiders said or didn't say. I also don't think it matters because like I've mentioned several times in this thread, most of the deals that happened at this most recent deadline weren't mentioned prior to happening. So it's not like any insiders were dialed in, but it doesn't mean they're wrong for reporting what they heard at the time. Much like the Chris Stewart stuff. The Bruins certainly tried to obtain him over the course of this year. Just because they didn't does not change anything.

 

[LSCII]

I am glad I gave you a laugh as laughing is healthy... where did you get the idea that I was taking shot at our own insiders?

I was just saying chiarelli doesn't leak trades info.

my post IS NOT AN ATTACK ON INSIDERS but rather an attempt to wake up some negative posters here who will use any opportunity to make an attack on chiarelli. chiarelli can be attacked for many reasons if someone is dead set on attacking him... but attacking him because of some unfounded rumor about a trade potential that was possibly never truly on the board is kind of ridiculous.

that's my point... that's what im saying... I like rumors... I want rumors... but I will never once in any post I ever make here say that a rumor is the same thing as a real trade. when I judge chiarelli on what he has done/not done I stick to the real trades and to be honest, im pretty happy that we won a cup when chiaelli avoided trading chara to Edmonton and avoided trading lucic to montreal and avoided trading Bergeron to Toronto and avoided trading Thomas to Philadelphia.

because if we want to give him crap for almost trading kessel to Toronto than he does deserve credit for not trading these guys to the teams that wanted them right?

I don't give him crap for anything other than what actually occurred. There's no need to give him grief over deals he almost completed, even if they're bad because there are plenty of deals he was able to finalize that sucked as well. Along with his cap management and his drafting. So there's plenty to be critical of that actually happened.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

http://www.fiveminutesforfighting.com/2012/08/tomas-kaberle-trade-rumour-history.html

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=4485942

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-tomas-kaberle-phil-kessel-trade-went-through

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...kaberle-blockbuster+&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

http://nesn.com/2011/02/report-bruins-finalizing-trade-with-maple-leafs-for-tomas-kaberle/

http://leafschatter.blogspot.com/2011/02/brian-burkes-next-trade-part-4-tomas.html

http://www.thestar.com/sports/the_spin/2011/02/kaberle_on_the_move.html

http://m.weei.com/sports/boston/bru.../06/27/five-things-we-learned-nhl-draft-night

did you read any of these threads? I see quotes like... its believed... reports were...

I sure don't see a lot of from chiarelli's mouth... or this reporter has taped the phone call and has the exact details of the trade in question

in fact, all these stories could have been written about chris stewart.... maybe sources say that louie Eriksson was being shopped to clear space... and buffalo was asking for more from boston because they didn't want to trade stewart within the conference... and boston was hesitant to trade for stewart because he was struggling earlier in the year...

im not sure why you cant see the point im making... so one last time, yes I do believe boston and Toronto discussed a phil kessel trade {the proof is kessel got traded to Toronto} and yes I do believe chiarelli wanted karberle {the proof is chiarelli later did get karberle} but NO I DONT BELIEVE ANY INSIDERS WERE TOLD BY CHIARELLI EXACTLY WHAT HE AND BURKE WERE DISCUSSING IN EXACT DETAIL' and in fact, IF THEY WERE THIS IS ILLEGLE UNDER THE RULES OF THE NHL REGUARDING TAMPERING CHARGES and finally as to whoever fueled these rumors to begin with BURKE WAS A MASSIVE MEDIA W**RE IN TORONTO WHO WAS CONSTANTLY TRYING TO GET HIS NAME IN THE PRESS AND TIME AFTER TIME INTENTONALLY LEAKED INFO

im picking this fight because some posters say 'chiarelli doesn't deserve credit for trading kessel for Hamilton and seguin BECAUSE he wanted to trade him for karberle. does that make any sense to you? should I just shut up here and let chiarelli be cruxified for a 'rumor' when I can clearly prove rumors are very seldom real. should I let you shut me up with new stories quoting 'sources say' when I can clearly prove those same sources were clueless over 99% of the trades made the past 5 years?

what am I missing that you feel so passionate about reguarding the gospel nature of this particular argument?