an honest challange

[LSCII]

did you read any of these threads? I see quotes like... its believed... reports were...

I sure don't see a lot of from chiarelli's mouth... or this reporter has taped the phone call and has the exact details of the trade in question

in fact, all these stories could have been written about chris stewart.... maybe sources say that louie Eriksson was being shopped to clear space... and buffalo was asking for more from boston because they didn't want to trade stewart within the conference... and boston was hesitant to trade for stewart because he was struggling earlier in the year...

im not sure why you cant see the point im making... so one last time, yes I do believe boston and Toronto discussed a phil kessel trade {the proof is kessel got traded to Toronto} and yes I do believe chiarelli wanted karberle {the proof is chiarelli later did get karberle} but NO I DONT BELIEVE ANY INSIDERS WERE TOLD BY CHIARELLI EXACTLY WHAT HE AND BURKE WERE DISCUSSING IN EXACT DETAIL' and in fact, IF THEY WERE THIS IS ILLEGLE UNDER THE RULES OF THE NHL REGUARDING TAMPERING CHARGES and finally as to whoever fueled these rumors to begin with BURKE WAS A MASSIVE MEDIA W**RE IN TORONTO WHO WAS CONSTANTLY TRYING TO GET HIS NAME IN THE PRESS AND TIME AFTER TIME INTENTONALLY LEAKED INFO

im picking this fight because some posters say 'chiarelli doesn't deserve credit for trading kessel for Hamilton and seguin BECAUSE he wanted to trade him for karberle. does that make any sense to you? should I just shut up here and let chiarelli be cruxified for a 'rumor' when I can clearly prove rumors are very seldom real. should I let you shut me up with new stories quoting 'sources say' when I can clearly prove those same sources were clueless over 99% of the trades made the past 5 years?

what am I missing that you feel so passionate about reguarding the gospel nature of this particular argument?

I don't know what to tell you. I watched the draft and read the stories right after. I saw both guys quoted on saying they both thought the draft pick was going their way and not away from them. It was one of the funniest and weirdest moments around a trade I can recall ever happening. If you want to say it never happened, that's all on you. I'm content in that it not only did happen, but that it doesn't really matter at this point anyway. Like I said before, there are plenty of actual deals, picks, and bad signings that I can hang on Chiarelli regardless of this near deal.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I don't give him crap for anything other than what actually occurred. There's no need to give him grief over deals he almost completed, even if they're bad because there are plenty of deals he was able to finalize that sucked as well. Along with his cap management and his drafting. So there's plenty to be critical of that actually happened.

I respect you as a poster... I always had the feeling you didn't exactly enjoy all my posts but you have always been respectful to me in our debates and I have seen you are a fan that cares about the team and want the best for it. I know we have responded to each other a lot and I just want to take a moment here to say I hope you have never taken anything I say as personal against you...

I like to respond to people who actually have something to say. a disagreement is nothing for me to get angry over, because I like an intelligent debate.

I just need to stick to my argument here because no one else is taking the time to do it... and a lot of posters here aren't as thoughtful and balanced as you are. and if I leave my voice silent on this issue it will just give those negative nancies more fuel for their agenda.

I like the job chiarelli did... I like our 2 trips to the finals... I even like being a playoff team this year. I don't want to stand by silently when a guy I like is being attacked so viciously here. mob mentality doesn't often listen to reason once the pitch forks are sharpened and the tourches are lit so if the majority of fans are screaming over chiarelli's trade day performance of the past 2 years I cant just let this argument get thrown into the mix too without calling into question how it can be given so much weight when no other rumors were worth the paper they were written on this year

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I don't know what to tell you. I watched the draft and read the stories right after. I saw both guys quoted on saying they both thought the draft pick was going their way and not away from them. It was one of the funniest and weirdest moments around a trade I can recall ever happening. If you want to say it never happened, that's all on you. I'm content in that it not only did happen, but that it doesn't really matter at this point anyway. Like I said before, there are plenty of actual deals, picks, and bad signings that I can hang on Chiarelli regardless of this near deal.

yeah I remember seeing that too... but what I remember seeing is first burke went to his people to puff himself up and say 'I was asking for first round pick from boston and that's what killed the deal' which is his way of looking good to his people cause that was a really stupid ask but one that would play great in the Toronto market.

then when media cornered chiarelli to respond to burkes comment, chiarelli had to answer the question and admit that burke asked for a first but there was confussion and chiarelli broke the talks off when he realized Toronto wanted the first and wasn't offering it.

never once did I hear chiarelli say that he was willing to pull the trigger. all I heard him admit to was that there was confusion over who was getting the first and that trade talks broke off at that point.

of course later on chiarelli got 2 firsts and a second so we have to question burkes honesty. how does burke justify asking for kessel and a first for karberle to begin with, and then later trade 2 firsts and a second for just kessel

is burke honestly saying karberle was the same as three firsts and a second???

just applying the BS meter to this story brings up one very smelly stink to my nose.

 

[LSCII]

I respect you as a poster... I always had the feeling you didn't exactly enjoy all my posts but you have always been respectful to me in our debates and I have seen you are a fan that cares about the team and want the best for it. I know we have responded to each other a lot and I just want to take a moment here to say I hope you have never taken anything I say as personal against you...

I like to respond to people who actually have something to say. a disagreement is nothing for me to get angry over, because I like an intelligent debate.

I just need to stick to my argument here because no one else is taking the time to do it... and a lot of posters here aren't as thoughtful and balanced as you are. and if I leave my voice silent on this issue it will just give those negative nancies more fuel for their agenda.

I like the job chiarelli did... I like our 2 trips to the finals... I even like being a playoff team this year. I don't want to stand by silently when a guy I like is being attacked so viciously here. mob mentality doesn't often listen to reason once the pitch forks are sharpened and the tourches are lit so if the majority of fans are screaming over chiarelli's trade day performance of the past 2 years I cant just let this argument get thrown into the mix too without calling into question how it can be given so much weight when no other rumors were worth the paper they were written on this year

I wouldn't classify it as not enjoying your posts at all. Quite a lot of them over the years have been very well thought out and insightful, TBH. If I had to say anything about them, it would be that they were so involved that I often didn't have the free time to respond in a way that would stir the debate along, so I would read/skim more than contribute. But either way, I've always valued you as a poster. When I first joined here, you were one of the people I read on a regular basis because you looked at things from a far different angle than most of the other posters, which really helped me learn more about making sure my arguments were well thought out and framed correctly.

In terms of being respectful, I try to do that with nearly everyone. I may not agree with their view or what they said, but I've always tried to debate the topic and not the person. Most of the posters here do a great job of separating the person from the topic, especially when you consider how many people are on here.

In terms of liking the job PC has done, that's great. That you're pleased with things is entirely fair and reasonable. I'm a little less patient and a lot more critical because I see the good he's done in the past and get frustrated when he doesn't or can't improve the team. I've said it before, but he's a victim of his own success. My expectations for him and the team have gone up because of the cup win and the return trip to the finals, so to see them floundering this year is a lot to take, if that makes sense. Either way, the one thing I can say is that while we may not fully agree, I do support your right and ability to come on here and say what you think.

 

[DKH]

yeah I remember seeing that too... but what I remember seeing is first burke went to his people to puff himself up and say 'I was asking for first round pick from boston and that's what killed the deal' which is his way of looking good to his people cause that was a really stupid ask but one that would play great in the Toronto market.

then when media cornered chiarelli to respond to burkes comment, chiarelli had to answer the question and admit that burke asked for a first but there was confussion and chiarelli broke the talks off when he realized Toronto wanted the first and wasn't offering it.

never once did I hear chiarelli say that he was willing to pull the trigger. all I heard him admit to was that there was confusion over who was getting the first and that trade talks broke off at that point.

of course later on chiarelli got 2 firsts and a second so we have to question burkes honesty. how does burke justify asking for kessel and a first for karberle to begin with, and then later trade 2 firsts and a second for just kessel

is burke honestly saying karberle was the same as three firsts and a second???

just applying the BS meter to this story brings up one very smelly stink to my nose.

here is the story as told to me by someone who was there- you can believe it, you can think its BS, you can print this and make a paper air plane but I am certain this is what I was told

The night before Burke and Chiarelli agreed to swapping Kessel for Kaberle. The Bruins would throw in their first round pick (25th I believe that Boston took Caron I think) and Toronto would toss in the 7th pick (Toronto would eventually take Kadri). The next morning Burke 'apparently' (in quotation fingers) got the picks conveniently mixed up to get out of it. Chiarelli I was told by someone who was looking at him was bemused but he let it go. I asked how could Chiarelli let him get away with that but he told me they were friends and Burke got a change of heart.

Ironically I also heard the legendary Zach Kassian was going to be Boston's pick.

No offense Mike, but why would you hear anything if you are relying on the papers.

These guys lie all the time. Go research when Lewis got fired. I know someone who was told Lewis lost the room in January and was gone. That person sorta alluded to it on HF but didnt go all in because well you know....when Chiarelli came out and said Lewis was safe and would be back the HF crowd yelled 'see, there your wrong' and a week later he was fired.

if you want to go at it bring it on, I'm ready

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

here is the story as told to me by someone who was there- you can believe it, you can think its BS, you can print this and make a paper air plane but I am certain this is what I was told

The night before Burke and Chiarelli agreed to swapping Kessel for Kaberle. The Bruins would throw in their first round pick (25th I believe that Boston took Caron I think) and Toronto would toss in the 7th pick (Toronto would eventually take Kadri). The next morning Burke 'apparently' (in quotation fingers) got the picks conveniently mixed up to get out of it. Chiarelli I was told by someone who was looking at him was bemused but he let it go. I asked how could Chiarelli let him get away with that but he told me they were friends and Burke got a change of heart.

Ironically I also heard the legendary Zach Kassian was going to be Boston's pick.

No offense Mike, but why would you hear anything if you are relying on the papers.

These guys lie all the time. Go research when Lewis got fired. I know someone who was told Lewis lost the room in January and was gone. That person sorta alluded to it on HF but didnt go all in because well you know....when Chiarelli came out and said Lewis was safe and would be back the HF crowd yelled 'see, there your wrong' and a week later he was fired.

if you want to go at it bring it on, I'm ready

now that you refresh the details I remember hearing the same thing {but I read all your posts so you might have been my source }

and as you detail it... it begins to make some sense from chiarelli's pov that there was a flip of picks plus karberle.

again though just to clarify my position... im not for one second suggesting that a trade involving karberle and something for kessel and something was NOT being discussed. im just saying that fans here are unfair if they say that chiarelli was trying to trade kessel for ONLY karberle and a pick.

I don't think your source is chiarelli himself. I don't think he told you, dan heres the deal I want ONLY a first and karberle. If they try to throw in any other assets I will refuse them.'

you heard something at some point from a source you know is in the know... and you shared it... and I like most here thank you for the share. but you cant definitely say that chiarelli wasn't asking for more. you cant definitely say that chiarelli was ready to pull the trigger on that exact deal.

gm's often change trades at the very last second... often one gm says he thinks he had a deal and then the other guy changes his mind. real trades change all the time at the last second.

that's the point im trying to make... that even if we all know that likely chiarelli wanted karberle as part of the kessel deal, I don't think we can say how close that deal was to being the final names on the dotted line when the fax would have gone to nhl head office

 

[Gonzothe7thDman]

The source from Dan was there.

At some point Occam's Razor has to apply AOF.

 

[DKH]

The source from Dan was there.

At some point Occam's Razor has to apply AOF.

yah he was- and Mike needs the change the 'we' on the last sentence to I.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

The source from Dan was there.

At some point Occam's Razor has to apply AOF.

have to take a second to say im impressed with the reference. if this thread accomplishes nothing else im a bit smarter than I was 2 mins ago before I did a google. thanks

 

[Gonzothe7thDman]

have to take a second to say im impressed with the reference. if this thread accomplishes nothing else im a bit smarter than I was 2 mins ago before I did a google. thanks

Underneath this tough bad boy exterior there's more than just a rebel without a cause AOF. Play your cards right and you might see it.

 

[Number8]

They interviewed Burke on the draft floor about this trade and why it fell apart. It nearly happened, so I don't get why you're going out of your way to dispel it. I don't care what insiders said or didn't say. I also don't think it matters because like I've mentioned several times in this thread, most of the deals that happened at this most recent deadline weren't mentioned prior to happening. So it's not like any insiders were dialed in, but it doesn't mean they're wrong for reporting what they heard at the time. Much like the Chris Stewart stuff. The Bruins certainly tried to obtain him over the course of this year. Just because they didn't does not change anything.

I always get a chuckle out of that one. It's like a bad, hushed cold-war spy conversation in a crowded restaurant.

PC: So you want Kessel?
BB: ah ah ah..... Cabbage.
PC: Oh right, I get it. So we're talking some cabbage for Kaberle?
BB: ah ah ah....... Cole Slaw.
PC: Right, right. OK a side of Cabbage for a side of Cole Slaw -- and the pick, of course.
BB: Right.... the pick has gotta be there.
PC: Amen to that, doesn't happen without the pick.
BB: Right. We both agree the pick is included?
PC: Absolutely. The pick is a lock.
BB: Which pick we talking about, just to be sure?
PC: The first rounder.
BB: Good... good. That's what we need.
PC: Yeah, that's what we need.
BB: OK. A side of Cabbage for the side of Slaw. Plus the pick.
PC: Exactly. Plus the pick.
BB: We good?
PC: We're good.
BB: OK, I'm gonna get up and leave now. You wait here and leave 10 minutes later.
PC: Cool. Me, my Slaw, and my pick will leave in 10 minutes.
BB: What pick?
PC: My pick.
BB: It's not your pick. It's my pick.
PC: Oh crap. Better let Moscow know there's a problem.
BB: ah ah ah...... Toronto.
PC: Right.... better let Toronto know there's a problem.
BB: Right.

 

[DKH]

Underneath this tough bad boy exterior there's more than just a rebel without a cause AOF. Play your cards right and you might see it.

Can't believe the hate directed to Alberta Bruins Fan over this thread. I remember when 'I like Mike' was the prevailing mood. I commend Mike though for such a scathing post directed at anyone who has ever had a source. Takes courage to alienate the masses and I give him credit for calling the kings naked. I want everyone to like me so I stay clear of polarizing topics. Bravo Mike

 

[Shoebottom]

I always get a chuckle out of that one. It's like a bad, hushed cold-war spy conversation in a crowded restaurant.

PC: So you want Kessel?
BB: ah ah ah..... Cabbage.
PC: Oh right, I get it. So we're talking some cabbage for Kaberle?
BB: ah ah ah....... Cole Slaw.
PC: Right, right. OK a side of Cabbage for a side of Cole Slaw -- and the pick, of course.
BB: Right.... the pick has gotta be there.
PC: Amen to that, doesn't happen without the pick.
BB: Right. We both agree the pick is included?
PC: Absolutely. The pick is a lock.
BB: Which pick we talking about, just to be sure?
PC: The first rounder.
BB: Good... good. That's what we need.
PC: Yeah, that's what we need.
BB: OK. A side of Cabbage for the side of Slaw. Plus the pick.
PC: Exactly. Plus the pick.
BB: We good?
PC: We're good.
BB: OK, I'm gonna get up and leave now. You wait here and leave 10 minutes later.
PC: Cool. Me, my Slaw, and my pick will leave in 10 minutes.
BB: What pick?
PC: My pick.
BB: It's not your pick. It's my pick.
PC: Oh crap. Better let Moscow know there's a problem.
BB: ah ah ah...... Toronto.
PC: Right.... better let Toronto know there's a problem.
BB: Right.

That is funny. Pictured both of them wearing rain coats. Then I stopped. Didn't want to dwell whats under them.

 

[Gonzothe7thDman]

Can't believe the hate directed to Alberta Bruins Fan over this thread. I remember when 'I like Mike' was the prevailing mood. I commend Mike though for such a scathing post directed at anyone who has ever had a source. Takes courage to alienate the masses and I give him credit for calling the kings naked. I want everyone to like me so I stay clear of polarizing topics. Bravo Mike

I admire the enthusiasm.

LF's own Joan of Arc if you will. Fighting against the tide. Spitting in the face of pluralistic ignorance. He'd be the one to tell the emperor he's naked.

Bravo I say.

 

[jgatie]

what am I missing that you feel so passionate about reguarding the gospel nature of this particular argument?

Because Lonnie loves skilled, one-dimensional players and absolutely hates management, and that rumor has both in spades.