American Prospect Update Thread
- Thread starter William H Bonney
- Start date
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Who are the players to watch for? I recognize the names Berchild, Trottier, and Stuart.
These will be the NTDP players for next year. The 2020 Youth Olympic team had Hutson, Casey, Chesley, Gauthier, Brzustewicz, McGroarty, Nazar, Brindley, Howard, Stramel, Snuggerud.
6 eventual first picks and a number of second and third rounders. This age group might not be as good. I have no idea if they are, but there's probably going to be some high draft picks from this team.
clevelandcane
Registered User
I really like Shaffer Gordon-Carroll. Hurlburt's supposed to be pretty good too
Man what happened to USA hockey preferring to take talent from a larger pool of states? One kid from the entire north east? I know this birth year well, they over looked a lot of kids. Seems lazy on their part considering most of the roster are close to Ann Arbor.
At Christmas time, Egan Beveridge has 5+5 in 28 games for Saint John. That's only 3 points behind Josh Lawrence at the same age (Lawrence was playing higher in the lineup) and half as many as Huberdeau had (on a team that went to the finals).
chl.ca
Hopefully, SJ finds a way to get him some more offensively gifted linemates for the 2nd half.
LHJMQ
chl.ca
Hopefully, SJ finds a way to get him some more offensively gifted linemates for the 2nd half.
Its early but I am very excited about 09s. It could be next big time age group.
Some 08s missing from YOG roster which are surprising but I have limited view so I am sure they know better.
Some 08s missing from YOG roster which are surprising but I have limited view so I am sure they know better.
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Didn't think this was a strong team for the USA at the YOG. They were completely outplayed by Canada in the Semis, and not convincing in the other games. Didn't think this team skated that well or had a lot of players with great puck games. Almost a complete lack of interesting defenseman.
Best players were Berchild, Hurlbert, and then some combination of Wendt, Schairer, Barnett, Francisco, Gordon-Carroll, Bumgarner, Stuart. Trottier. I suspect most of those players will make the NTDP for next year. Other guys I'm not sure about. Berchild and Hurlbert are probably the two that will take up most of the discussion, yet I don't think either are anything special.
But these players still have a long time to improve before being drafted, so it'll be fun to see who is picked and who improves.
Best players were Berchild, Hurlbert, and then some combination of Wendt, Schairer, Barnett, Francisco, Gordon-Carroll, Bumgarner, Stuart. Trottier. I suspect most of those players will make the NTDP for next year. Other guys I'm not sure about. Berchild and Hurlbert are probably the two that will take up most of the discussion, yet I don't think either are anything special.
But these players still have a long time to improve before being drafted, so it'll be fun to see who is picked and who improves.
Like I said almost two months ago, lazy picks by USA hockey. Most players were from Shattuck or played near Ann Arbor. They won gold so the powers that be will feel justified but only one player from the north east is ridiculous. Lot of talent that got over looked.
Its early but at the moment the only sure top 10 pick is Dupont. 09 has talent in the USA but there is nobody with the x factor rising to the top just yet. USA is definitely deeper on defensemen than Canada though in 09 birth year.
Is Rocco Pelosi considered the top guy for 09s? Seems to have impressive numbers compared to Hagens and Fondrk for Mount 14s.
| Name | GP | G | A | P | P/GP |
| Hagens | 27 | 27 | 30 | 57 | 2.11 |
| Fondrk | 58 | 58 | 50 | 108 | 1.86 |
| Pelosi | 42 | 59 | 54 | 113 | 2.69 |
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
William H Bonney
Registered User
Report from @sigx15:
F Rocco Pelosi - Mount St. Charles Acad, 14U AAA (2027 Draft)
https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/701312/rocco-pelosi Next supertalent out of the US? is Cushing it on one of the best programs in the country.
sigx15
Registered User
- Jan 31, 2010
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I’d be careful comparing anyone to each other with their development at the U14 age. He’s great for his age group, no doubt about it. I’m pretty excited to see him develop but looking at raw numbers can throw people off. Hagens late birthday at the U14 was really evident, I believe he was 5’4” or so at that age comparatively to Pelosi who’s already 5’10”. Pelosi’s brother is 6’1” so there’s still room to grow but he’s on the taller side fore his age, albeit still has a ton of room to fill out, he’s pretty wiry right now. Both teams are/were loaded with talent so playing with a lot talent around them
I’m pretty high on Pelosi but don’t get caught up in stats at that age. The success is great but we’ve seen tons of kids put up gaudy numbers at that age who haven’t continued developing
As I said in the other thread, I really like his skating and vision, especially skating with the puck. The upside is there, it will just be a matter of if he continues to develop. I think he’s in the right place to do that with Rask and Gainey there
There's some considerations that are necessary when comparing his numbers to Hagens which I don't feel like bringing out on this forum but Rocco is a complete player who does everything well but not at the same skill level as James Hagens. They're very different players if you watch them.
I don't have him as top 09 but he is heavily in the conversation for top 5 in the country. Probably top 09 in the north east, at least for Americans. The Quebec boys on BK and on SPA will give him a serious run for the money but they are not competition for a NTDP spot and this is a US prospect thread so I assume its a who cares situation.
At least sigx admitted to only watching him twice this year. I've watched him an easy 50 times over the past 2 years. I've watched him play on super teams and on weak teams. Not that it means my opinion is the be all end all because every scout sees things differently but I have a good picture of who the player is.Report from @sigx15:
F Rocco Pelosi - Mount St. Charles Acad, 14U AAA (2027 Draft)
https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/701312/rocco-pelosi Next supertalent out of the US? is Cushing it on one of the best programs in the country.forums.hfboards.com
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Put your puck preps subscription away and admit you don't really scout. I've been watching you blurt out opinions like they are canon for a while now but it's clear you watch a video or two on livebarn and/or listen to paid subscription scouting reports to make your opinions.
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sigx15
Registered User
- Jan 31, 2010
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Ya I don’t pretend to admit I’m an expert or anything, I just coach in the area and have seen him play, now 3 times but it’s for sure not a comprehensive viewing. I like him more than Fondrk at the same age but not as much as Hagens. He’s also a very different player than Hagens, closer in style to Fondrk
I’m not as sold on Desjardins as you are though in the few times I’ve seen him play. I do agree with you on Scantlebury though, his speed and skating is great. It’s hard to judge his hockey sense because there isn’t much around him on the BK U14 team
Pelosi is pretty easily the top 09 American as of now. I don’t think there is a close 2nd. And there is no one on SPA that is even remotely as good as him. Scantlebury and him are on the same playing field.
Mount 09 is the best coached Bantam major team I might have ever seen. They are running systems and plays that I don't see top midget teams running. I will agree with you @sigx15 about Desjardins, he is third of the top scoring 3, but I have seen him step up in games against top 09 D and still find ways to score. It is most likely a size thing, he is has a few inches on both, but Pelosi when playing against top D can go silent on the stat sheet, and I have seen Scantlebury shut down completely. These two players are Canadian though so its a moot point.
Now consider that both Scantlebury and Desjardins play on weaker teams with less support it becomes easier to shut them down but that shouldn't be the case with Pelosi.. He is still surrounded by a lot of talent on a clear #1 team in the country. This is where you have to add question marks but only in the case of arguing "wHo is tHe beSt in thE coUntRy."
@bigdog16 I'll let you have your opinion because I am not here to smear young players. Pelosi IS A TOP forward in the USA. I just don't agree with anyone saying he is a clear #1 in the entire country. If you say that you are not actually watching other top kids. I can add more opinions and explanations but it isn't necessary, he is a top forward and a clear lock for ntdp. I have no clue who you are, you might work for mount or just be another guy regurgitating puck preps and neutral zone write ups. I'm not here to argue or belittle 14 year old players, but my opinion stands that there is no clear #1 in the 2009 American birth year.
Look at some of the kids on weaker teams producing without support. That is scouting 101. Who can produce without support, who makes team mates better. It's easy to pick the top forward on the top 2-3 teams and say they are the best.
I'll give you one name who I think has way more upside than Pelosi and that is Enzo on LA Jr Kings. His skating is superior than Pelosi, he has better hands, and he can embarrass even the top D with his edges. His team is not very good either. There are a few more that are in the conversation as potential top USA forwards. I don't watch Shattuck much but I DONT think they have anyone that is clearly better than Pelosi. They might have kids with more upside but Shattuck is in its own category and just going there and having success opens many doors.
*Edit. Just wanted to add that people scout differently and have different opinions, and you need to look at all of them to get a true picture of a player. This is my opinion. I just find that my opinion is closer to reality than a lot of people who regurgitate social media hype. I have to travel to these damn rinks, many times when I don't want to, but I have put a lot of effort into this birth year so I believe my opinion is true. This is just my opinion and in no way am I belittling or putting down this or any player. Saying clear #1 just isn't true because the 09 birth year does not have a clear #1 or anyone who is at the level of being a top 5 draft pick, YET.
Now consider that both Scantlebury and Desjardins play on weaker teams with less support it becomes easier to shut them down but that shouldn't be the case with Pelosi.. He is still surrounded by a lot of talent on a clear #1 team in the country. This is where you have to add question marks but only in the case of arguing "wHo is tHe beSt in thE coUntRy."
@bigdog16 I'll let you have your opinion because I am not here to smear young players. Pelosi IS A TOP forward in the USA. I just don't agree with anyone saying he is a clear #1 in the entire country. If you say that you are not actually watching other top kids. I can add more opinions and explanations but it isn't necessary, he is a top forward and a clear lock for ntdp. I have no clue who you are, you might work for mount or just be another guy regurgitating puck preps and neutral zone write ups. I'm not here to argue or belittle 14 year old players, but my opinion stands that there is no clear #1 in the 2009 American birth year.
Look at some of the kids on weaker teams producing without support. That is scouting 101. Who can produce without support, who makes team mates better. It's easy to pick the top forward on the top 2-3 teams and say they are the best.
I'll give you one name who I think has way more upside than Pelosi and that is Enzo on LA Jr Kings. His skating is superior than Pelosi, he has better hands, and he can embarrass even the top D with his edges. His team is not very good either. There are a few more that are in the conversation as potential top USA forwards. I don't watch Shattuck much but I DONT think they have anyone that is clearly better than Pelosi. They might have kids with more upside but Shattuck is in its own category and just going there and having success opens many doors.
*Edit. Just wanted to add that people scout differently and have different opinions, and you need to look at all of them to get a true picture of a player. This is my opinion. I just find that my opinion is closer to reality than a lot of people who regurgitate social media hype. I have to travel to these damn rinks, many times when I don't want to, but I have put a lot of effort into this birth year so I believe my opinion is true. This is just my opinion and in no way am I belittling or putting down this or any player. Saying clear #1 just isn't true because the 09 birth year does not have a clear #1 or anyone who is at the level of being a top 5 draft pick, YET.
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Yet somehow Pelosi just got out scored in Florida by one of his team mates? If he was a consensus #1 that would be impossible. And who is deciding the consensus? Paid scouting services that prey on naive parents with money. I'm getting the feeling that you're one of those guys.
Also he wasn't the top dog in every event he played with East Coast Kings. He was out scored by team mates on more than one occasion.
Pure skill is how we determine upside and a chance to be a high first round pick. Enzo has a closer chance to becoming a Hagen or a Hughes than Pelosi does who plays a more basic 2 way game. There are other pure skill players out there as well but I'm not a fan of pumping 14 year olds on an online forum.
I can continue but it's clear you either have no idea what you're talking about and don't really follow the player. 2, you work for a paid scouting service, or 3 you work for Mount and are pumping your guy.
You might want to re-check those stats. He wasn’t outscored by anybody. I am extremely familiar with this 09 group, been to all the events. Im certainly not a parent. Enzo was the top dog a couple years ago but everyone has caught up. Its a downgrade for him going from LC to Jr Kings. He also hasn’t grown an inch the past 3 years. Kids have surpassed him
Good luck to all American u14 and u15 players. We will see where everyone ends up in a few years. I'm done talking about kids who haven't finished going through puberty.
Paid scouting services and greedy coaches who have financial incentives to pump kids to either grow their program, company, or just their pockets are a huge problem in our sport.
Paid scouting services and greedy coaches who have financial incentives to pump kids to either grow their program, company, or just their pockets are a huge problem in our sport.
sigx15
Registered User
- Jan 31, 2010
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Ya I don’t think it’s a good idea to ever develop too strong of opinions on kids at the U14-U15 age. There’s just an insane amount of physical development and skill development that can take place over those years. I’m always of the opinion, there are certainly players on a great path but whether that development trend continues or they stall or another player takes a leap ahead of them is always anyone’s guess
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
17’s tournament in Czechia right now provides TOI data, which is almost never available. They played Finland today, and there's some things you can glean into the TOI data.
Forwards:
McKinney: 17:33 (4/6 on draws)
Moore: 16:02 (13/16 on draws)
Potter: 15:28
Fondrk: 15:25 (4/11 on draws)
Murtagh: 15:11
Gallant: 13:08
Mooney: 13:07 (2/6 on draws)
Kvasnicka: 11:44
Belle: 10:45
Horcoff: 10:39 (4/10 on draws)
Hafele: 10:21
O'Neill: 10:17 (1/9 on draws)
Stuart: 8:13
This shows what we've suspected for a lot of the season. There's somewhat of a top 5-7 emerging from the forwards. McKinney, Moore, Potter, Fondrk, Murtagh are a pretty solidified top 5. Gallant in defensive situations and Mooney in offensive situations compete for 6 and 7. All of this shows up in the points data too (top 4 are Moore, Potter, Fondrk, Murtagh, Mooney is 5, McKinney is 6 yet more of an ace defensive C anyway).
These guys were shockingly bad on FO's today. Moore great. McKinney also pretty good, but looks like he wasn't playing center today (neither was Potter). I wonder if McKinney (and potentially also Potter) is being used at winger to prepare him for that spot with the 18's in the last few months. McKinney's still leading in TOI by a good amount. Moore too you figure his TOI and number of draws he's taken bode well for getting promoted. Potter I hope they promote, but it wouldn't be the worst thing if he stays down to work on his finishing. Fondrk I don't think is ready for a promotion. Kvasnicka is just coming back from injury, and has the game to move up into a consistent top 9 guy.
Defensemen:
Schock: 21:00
Bracco: 20:55
Barnett: 19:27
Lindberg: 18:28
Trethewey: 15:48
Amico: 15:41
Phillips: 3:22
Biggest surprise is Trethewey, but if you look into the per period TOI he barely played in the third. Probanbly either an injury or they stopped playing him as much towards the end with a big lead. Otherwise, Schock and Bracco are competing for the best OFD on the team, Barnett plays a lot of the defensive minutes, Philipps as usual last because his decision making makes him unreliable. Amico should be above Lindberg, but a discussion for another day.
Forwards:
McKinney: 17:33 (4/6 on draws)
Moore: 16:02 (13/16 on draws)
Potter: 15:28
Fondrk: 15:25 (4/11 on draws)
Murtagh: 15:11
Gallant: 13:08
Mooney: 13:07 (2/6 on draws)
Kvasnicka: 11:44
Belle: 10:45
Horcoff: 10:39 (4/10 on draws)
Hafele: 10:21
O'Neill: 10:17 (1/9 on draws)
Stuart: 8:13
This shows what we've suspected for a lot of the season. There's somewhat of a top 5-7 emerging from the forwards. McKinney, Moore, Potter, Fondrk, Murtagh are a pretty solidified top 5. Gallant in defensive situations and Mooney in offensive situations compete for 6 and 7. All of this shows up in the points data too (top 4 are Moore, Potter, Fondrk, Murtagh, Mooney is 5, McKinney is 6 yet more of an ace defensive C anyway).
These guys were shockingly bad on FO's today. Moore great. McKinney also pretty good, but looks like he wasn't playing center today (neither was Potter). I wonder if McKinney (and potentially also Potter) is being used at winger to prepare him for that spot with the 18's in the last few months. McKinney's still leading in TOI by a good amount. Moore too you figure his TOI and number of draws he's taken bode well for getting promoted. Potter I hope they promote, but it wouldn't be the worst thing if he stays down to work on his finishing. Fondrk I don't think is ready for a promotion. Kvasnicka is just coming back from injury, and has the game to move up into a consistent top 9 guy.
Defensemen:
Schock: 21:00
Bracco: 20:55
Barnett: 19:27
Lindberg: 18:28
Trethewey: 15:48
Amico: 15:41
Phillips: 3:22
Biggest surprise is Trethewey, but if you look into the per period TOI he barely played in the third. Probanbly either an injury or they stopped playing him as much towards the end with a big lead. Otherwise, Schock and Bracco are competing for the best OFD on the team, Barnett plays a lot of the defensive minutes, Philipps as usual last because his decision making makes him unreliable. Amico should be above Lindberg, but a discussion for another day.
William H Bonney
Registered User
NTDP promotions and demotions have started. Mooney and McKinney are up with the U18s, Epperson demoted to the U17s.
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