Fat Elvis
El Guapo
How good is this kid and who in the NHL does he play most like? How high in the draft do most think he'll go? I ask because LA could use more quality Dmen in their system and is he good enough to take top 2?
Would taking him # 2 be a mistake in your opinions?
I dont thino taking him first would be a mistake. all of the top end forwards in the draft probably have better long range potential, but you are taking a defenceman who will play 25 minutes of mistake free hockey every night with fairly good offensive upside and if you have a chance to add that to your team, you have to pounceFat Elvis said:Would taking him # 2 be a mistake in your opinions?
I dont thino taking him first would be a mistake. all of the top end forwards in the draft probably have better long range potential, but you are taking a defenceman who will play 25 minutes of mistake free hockey every night with fairly good offensive upside and if you have a chance to add that to your team, you have to pounce
his offence comes from perfect first passes out of the zone, a good hard shot, and smart passes on the powerplay. He will tell you that he was playing very conservative in his first two years in the WHL, and almost completely unwilling to join the rush, as he was a 100% stay at home defenceman. he's improving every year, and has showed this year that he has some offence in there.
he won't be a Tomas Kaberle-like 70 point defenceman, but he has solid offensive skills.
Kris Russell (a 3rd round pick last year) is twice the offensive defenseman that Alzner is which reinforces my belief that if Alzner was drafted last year he would have been a mid 1st round selection at best. I am not saying he won't be solid defensively but there is no evidence what-so-ever of this offensive upside that people keep refering to.
I draw comparisons because Russell is the leading scoring defenseman in the WHL.....by a large margin over Alzner. I am sure the Alzner's size is a very good asset in the defensive end.....but from watching him play and looking at his stats he does not have a big offensive side. Also at least 1/4th of the defensemen in the NHL have scored 40 points at one time in their career. I expect a little more from a guy that some are saying should be selected #1.Alzner and Russell are completely different players so I don't see why you'd try to draw a comparison between them. Alzner has a lot more size and more defensive polish than Russell.
There's also plenty of evidence of his growing offensive upside. Just look at him this year in the WHL, 31 points in 40 games. He'll most likely never be top ten in scoring for D, but there's reason to believe he could put up around 40 points in his prime.
I draw comparisons because Russell is the leading scoring defenseman in the WHL.....by a large margin over Alzner. I am sure the Alzner's size is a very good asset in the defensive end.....but from watching him play and looking at his stats he does not have a big offensive side. Also at least 1/4th of the defensemen in the NHL have scored 40 points at one time in their career. I expect a little more from a guy that some are saying should be selected #1.
First, offense is more than just goals. From the descriptions here, it sounds like Alzner supports the offense very well. One need not pot 20 goals like Phaneuf or Blake to have real offensive talent. Second, upside is defined by having room for improvement. Alzner has more than doubled his production each year. As you love to say, "if this trend continues..." . I'm intrigued by Alzner's potential. By all accounts, he's solid defensively and his offensive numbers are continuing to improve. In Crawford's system, whatever his maximum offensive potential is, he should be able to hit it. He sounds like a good fit for the Kings and, potentially, a perfect future pairing partner for Jack Johnson. I wouldn't necessarily pick him, but, as it stands right now, I wouldn't have the objections that you appear to have.I think it amusing how someone can have an offensive upside when he has never scored more than 5 goals/season in junior hockey.
Try telling that to guys like Lidstrom, Pronger, and Niedermayer. Now from a purely defensive point of view you are correct. But guys who are defensive defensemen usually are not selected with a top 3 pick. Defensemen selected with a top 5 pick usually have a well established offensive game......Which Alzner does not have right now.Whats your point? A great defense men isn't about stats.
Sorry....but I have to disagree with you there. Wade Redden was selected in 1995 with the 2nd overall pick......in that same year Jerome Iginla was selected #11. If that draft was done over knowing what both players would develop into I am confident that most people would choose Iginla over Redden. I think a defenseman selected with a top 3 should have a "complete" game.....guys like Pronger, Niedermayer and both Johnson's come to mind. While Alzner may very well be the best defenseman to come from this draft.....he is not in the same league as any of those guys mentioned. So I think a picking a guy like Alzner with a pick in the 5-10 range is justifiable......a top-3 isn't.Shoot Wade Redden only hit 50 once (last year) and only hit higher then 40 pts 4 times in 10 years (although he is likely to do it again this year depending on injuries of course). But who wouldn't want him? Guy is one of the best d-men in the whole NHL. The 40pts a year he brings is just gravy on top. Guy was a darn good top-3 pick.
Heck look at a Hall of Fame guy like Scot Stevens. He went a whole decade getting roughly 25 pts a year and was still considered one of the best d-men in the game (of course with a different style then either Redden or Alzner).
Good defense is worth more then pretty pts. If a top-3 pick turns into a top pairing d-man thats more valuable then a top-6 forward or even a top-3 guy... number 1 or even 2 d-men are incredibly rare. Most teams don't have a legit guy.
First, offense is more than just goals. From the descriptions here, it sounds like Alzner supports the offense very well. One need not pot 20 goals like Phaneuf or Blake to have real offensive talent. Second, upside is defined by having room for improvement. Alzner has more than doubled his production each year. As you love to say, "if this trend continues..." . I'm intrigued by Alzner's potential. By all accounts, he's solid defensively and his offensive numbers are continuing to improve. In Crawford's system, whatever his maximum offensive potential is, he should be able to hit it. He sounds like a good fit for the Kings and, potentially, a perfect future pairing partner for Jack Johnson. I wouldn't necessarily pick him, but, as it stands right now, I wouldn't have the objections that you appear to have.
Or you draft a forward who you think is going to be Iginla, #4 overal Chad Kilger and fail. The point is the draft is a crap shoot and it always is. There is no one who clearly stands out above another person, and I believe Lombardi made it clear that if there are two players in similar talent he'll take the defender. Now given my choice between Iginla or Redden I'd take Igilnla, but given the choice of Langkow/Sykora/Doan all top 6 forwards 1st round 1995 I'll take Redden.OK let me pose the scenario I did with Tadite.....if you were given the option of drafting Jerome Iginla or Wade Redden.....knowing full well what they would become in their prime.....who would you select? I see this draft turning out something like this. I think that Alzner may very well be a "good" defenseman in the NHL. But I also see much more potential for greatness from the forward crop in this draft. And while selecting the next Wade Redden when the next Jerome Iginla is still available would not considered a catastophic move....it probably would not be considered the best move.
Or you draft a forward who you think is going to be Iginla, #4 overal Chad Kilger and fail. The point is the draft is a crap shoot and it always is. There is no one who clearly stands out above another person, and I believe Lombardi made it clear that if there are two players in similar talent he'll take the defender. Now given my choice between Iginla or Redden I'd take Igilnla, but given the choice of Langkow/Sykora/Doan all top 6 forwards 1st round 1995 I'll take Redden.
Yeah, find me a guy with Iginla's combination of size, speed and skill in this draft, and I'll take him.
But when Iginla was drafted he was not quite the player that he is today. If that was the case he would have definitely been drafted higher. All of these guys are about Iginla's size and probably have comparable skills to what Jerome had when he was drafted.
Angelo Esposito
Alexei Cherepanov
James Van Riemsdyk
Jakub Voracek
Logan Couture
Yet you put Alzner ahead of all of them.