Alzner

[Fat Elvis]

How good is this kid and who in the NHL does he play most like? How high in the draft do most think he'll go? I ask because LA could use more quality Dmen in their system and is he good enough to take top 2?

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[Amadeus]

Alzner will probably be the first D-man taken in the draft.

He's a good two-way defenseman. His slapshot is really good, but he is known for his very hard wrister.

He can go top 3.

 

[McOilbleeder]

I have heard the Wade Redden Comparison for top end potential.

 

[Anthony Mauro]

The Redden comparison did not really jump out at me when I saw him. Although I can certainly see it. A young Sergei Zubov actually came to mind.

 

[rigger]

Redden and Zubov do play a similar game, neither of them are really aggressive or physical but can be if required, they are smart, creative, great first pass and can rush the puck, good vision and good hands. Obviously Zubov is better then Redden but they are similar in their game.

Either, if Alzner is being compared to either of them then he is doing something right.

I think he will be the first d picked in the draft and I pray the oilers trade up to get him.

 

[Fat Elvis]

Would taking him # 2 be a mistake in your opinions?

 

[Buffalo87]

Would taking him # 2 be a mistake in your opinions?

Not in my opinion. I think right now he should go top 5 and top 2 isn't a stretch. I've seen him play a couple times and combining that with everything I've read he seems like a guy that can do everything very very well, nothing great but no real weaknesses either.

 

[Ferjo]

Would taking him # 2 be a mistake in your opinions?

I dont thino taking him first would be a mistake. all of the top end forwards in the draft probably have better long range potential, but you are taking a defenceman who will play 25 minutes of mistake free hockey every night with fairly good offensive upside and if you have a chance to add that to your team, you have to pounce

 

[RightKinger]

I dont thino taking him first would be a mistake. all of the top end forwards in the draft probably have better long range potential, but you are taking a defenceman who will play 25 minutes of mistake free hockey every night with fairly good offensive upside and if you have a chance to add that to your team, you have to pounce

Sounds like a Dean Lombardi draft pick.

 

[Blue Bullet]

I wouldn't have a problem taking him 1st overall.

My top 5 at this time:

1. Alzner
2. Couture
3. Kane
4. Turris
5. Cheraponov

 

[Captain Ron]

I think it amusing how someone can have an offensive upside when he has never scored more than 5 goals/season in junior hockey. In fact in his first year he scored no goals in 66 games. Last year he scored 4 goals in 70 games and this year he has scored 5 goals in 40 games. Kris Russell (a 3rd round pick last year) is twice the offensive defenseman that Alzner is which reinforces my belief that if Alzner was drafted last year he would have been a mid 1st round selection at best. I am not saying he won't be solid defensively but there is no evidence what-so-ever of this offensive upside that people keep refering to.

 

[Ferjo]

his offence comes from perfect first passes out of the zone, a good hard shot, and smart passes on the powerplay. He will tell you that he was playing very conservative in his first two years in the WHL, and almost completely unwilling to join the rush, as he was a 100% stay at home defenceman. he's improving every year, and has showed this year that he has some offence in there.

he won't be a Tomas Kaberle-like 70 point defenceman, but he has solid offensive skills.

 

[Captain Ron]

his offence comes from perfect first passes out of the zone, a good hard shot, and smart passes on the powerplay. He will tell you that he was playing very conservative in his first two years in the WHL, and almost completely unwilling to join the rush, as he was a 100% stay at home defenceman. he's improving every year, and has showed this year that he has some offence in there.

he won't be a Tomas Kaberle-like 70 point defenceman, but he has solid offensive skills.

I see him more of a lesser talented Brad Stuart type.....a "decent" offensive guy with some pretty good defensive skills. Probably worth a top 10 pick but I think any team that uses a top 3 pick on him will regret it.

 

[Ike Thermite]

Kris Russell (a 3rd round pick last year) is twice the offensive defenseman that Alzner is which reinforces my belief that if Alzner was drafted last year he would have been a mid 1st round selection at best. I am not saying he won't be solid defensively but there is no evidence what-so-ever of this offensive upside that people keep refering to.

Alzner and Russell are completely different players so I don't see why you'd try to draw a comparison between them. Alzner has a lot more size and more defensive polish than Russell.

There's also plenty of evidence of his growing offensive upside. Just look at him this year in the WHL, 31 points in 40 games. He'll most likely never be top ten in scoring for D, but there's reason to believe he could put up around 40 points in his prime.

 

[Captain Ron]

Alzner and Russell are completely different players so I don't see why you'd try to draw a comparison between them. Alzner has a lot more size and more defensive polish than Russell.

There's also plenty of evidence of his growing offensive upside. Just look at him this year in the WHL, 31 points in 40 games. He'll most likely never be top ten in scoring for D, but there's reason to believe he could put up around 40 points in his prime.

I draw comparisons because Russell is the leading scoring defenseman in the WHL.....by a large margin over Alzner. I am sure the Alzner's size is a very good asset in the defensive end.....but from watching him play and looking at his stats he does not have a big offensive side. Also at least 1/4th of the defensemen in the NHL have scored 40 points at one time in their career. I expect a little more from a guy that some are saying should be selected #1.

 

[sbtatter]

I think he'll go between 4th and 10th. I think he's very sound defensively, very good at leading the rush out of the zone and will pick up his point scoring. An intangible is that he is very highly regarded by his team mates, should be a good leader...

 

[Tadite]

I draw comparisons because Russell is the leading scoring defenseman in the WHL.....by a large margin over Alzner. I am sure the Alzner's size is a very good asset in the defensive end.....but from watching him play and looking at his stats he does not have a big offensive side. Also at least 1/4th of the defensemen in the NHL have scored 40 points at one time in their career. I expect a little more from a guy that some are saying should be selected #1.

Whats your point? A great defense men isn't about stats.

Shoot Wade Redden only hit 50 once (last year) and only hit higher then 40 pts 4 times in 10 years (although he is likely to do it again this year depending on injuries of course). But who wouldn't want him? Guy is one of the best d-men in the whole NHL. The 40pts a year he brings is just gravy on top. Guy was a darn good top-3 pick.


Heck look at a Hall of Fame guy like Scot Stevens. He went a whole decade getting roughly 25 pts a year and was still considered one of the best d-men in the game (of course with a different style then either Redden or Alzner).

Good defense is worth more then pretty pts. If a top-3 pick turns into a top pairing d-man thats more valuable then a top-6 forward or even a top-3 guy... number 1 or even 2 d-men are incredibly rare. Most teams don't have a legit guy.

 

[Osprey]

I think it amusing how someone can have an offensive upside when he has never scored more than 5 goals/season in junior hockey.

First, offense is more than just goals. From the descriptions here, it sounds like Alzner supports the offense very well. One need not pot 20 goals like Phaneuf or Blake to have real offensive talent. Second, upside is defined by having room for improvement. Alzner has more than doubled his production each year. As you love to say, "if this trend continues..." . I'm intrigued by Alzner's potential. By all accounts, he's solid defensively and his offensive numbers are continuing to improve. In Crawford's system, whatever his maximum offensive potential is, he should be able to hit it. He sounds like a good fit for the Kings and, potentially, a perfect future pairing partner for Jack Johnson. I wouldn't necessarily pick him, but, as it stands right now, I wouldn't have the objections that you appear to have.

 

[Captain Ron]

Whats your point? A great defense men isn't about stats.

Try telling that to guys like Lidstrom, Pronger, and Niedermayer. Now from a purely defensive point of view you are correct. But guys who are defensive defensemen usually are not selected with a top 3 pick. Defensemen selected with a top 5 pick usually have a well established offensive game......Which Alzner does not have right now.

Shoot Wade Redden only hit 50 once (last year) and only hit higher then 40 pts 4 times in 10 years (although he is likely to do it again this year depending on injuries of course). But who wouldn't want him? Guy is one of the best d-men in the whole NHL. The 40pts a year he brings is just gravy on top. Guy was a darn good top-3 pick.


Heck look at a Hall of Fame guy like Scot Stevens. He went a whole decade getting roughly 25 pts a year and was still considered one of the best d-men in the game (of course with a different style then either Redden or Alzner).

Good defense is worth more then pretty pts. If a top-3 pick turns into a top pairing d-man thats more valuable then a top-6 forward or even a top-3 guy... number 1 or even 2 d-men are incredibly rare. Most teams don't have a legit guy.

Sorry....but I have to disagree with you there. Wade Redden was selected in 1995 with the 2nd overall pick......in that same year Jerome Iginla was selected #11. If that draft was done over knowing what both players would develop into I am confident that most people would choose Iginla over Redden. I think a defenseman selected with a top 3 should have a "complete" game.....guys like Pronger, Niedermayer and both Johnson's come to mind. While Alzner may very well be the best defenseman to come from this draft.....he is not in the same league as any of those guys mentioned. So I think a picking a guy like Alzner with a pick in the 5-10 range is justifiable......a top-3 isn't.

 

[Captain Ron]

First, offense is more than just goals. From the descriptions here, it sounds like Alzner supports the offense very well. One need not pot 20 goals like Phaneuf or Blake to have real offensive talent. Second, upside is defined by having room for improvement. Alzner has more than doubled his production each year. As you love to say, "if this trend continues..." . I'm intrigued by Alzner's potential. By all accounts, he's solid defensively and his offensive numbers are continuing to improve. In Crawford's system, whatever his maximum offensive potential is, he should be able to hit it. He sounds like a good fit for the Kings and, potentially, a perfect future pairing partner for Jack Johnson. I wouldn't necessarily pick him, but, as it stands right now, I wouldn't have the objections that you appear to have.

OK let me pose the scenario I did with Tadite.....if you were given the option of drafting Jerome Iginla or Wade Redden.....knowing full well what they would become in their prime.....who would you select? I see this draft turning out something like this. I think that Alzner may very well be a "good" defenseman in the NHL. But I also see much more potential for greatness from the forward crop in this draft. And while selecting the next Wade Redden when the next Jerome Iginla is still available would not considered a catastophic move....it probably would not be considered the best move.

 

[AnThGrt]

OK let me pose the scenario I did with Tadite.....if you were given the option of drafting Jerome Iginla or Wade Redden.....knowing full well what they would become in their prime.....who would you select? I see this draft turning out something like this. I think that Alzner may very well be a "good" defenseman in the NHL. But I also see much more potential for greatness from the forward crop in this draft. And while selecting the next Wade Redden when the next Jerome Iginla is still available would not considered a catastophic move....it probably would not be considered the best move.

Or you draft a forward who you think is going to be Iginla, #4 overal Chad Kilger and fail. The point is the draft is a crap shoot and it always is. There is no one who clearly stands out above another person, and I believe Lombardi made it clear that if there are two players in similar talent he'll take the defender. Now given my choice between Iginla or Redden I'd take Igilnla, but given the choice of Langkow/Sykora/Doan all top 6 forwards 1st round 1995 I'll take Redden.

 

[Legionnaire]

Yeah, find me a guy with Iginla's combination of size, speed and skill in this draft, and I'll take him.

 

[Captain Ron]

Or you draft a forward who you think is going to be Iginla, #4 overal Chad Kilger and fail. The point is the draft is a crap shoot and it always is. There is no one who clearly stands out above another person, and I believe Lombardi made it clear that if there are two players in similar talent he'll take the defender. Now given my choice between Iginla or Redden I'd take Igilnla, but given the choice of Langkow/Sykora/Doan all top 6 forwards 1st round 1995 I'll take Redden.

You are correct it is a crapshoot....but you ususally try to pick the guy who has the best chance of being an impact player for your team. Just looking over the prospects from this years draft I can say in all honesty that there are at least 3 or 4 guys who have a better chance of being "impact" players in the NHL. Kane and Gagner are both rookies in the OHL with a legitimate chance of winning the scoring title. I would choose either of those guys over Alzner. Even though he has been slumping lately I would select Esposito over Alzner....he has shown that when he really wants to he can take over a game. I would also take Cherepanov over Alzner......his showing at the WJC's proved that he can play very well against a high level of competition. If all of those players are gone when LA selects then I would have no problem with Lombardi choosing Alzner.

 

[Captain Ron]

Yeah, find me a guy with Iginla's combination of size, speed and skill in this draft, and I'll take him.

But when Iginla was drafted he was not quite the player that he is today. If that was the case he would have definitely been drafted higher. All of these guys are about Iginla's size and probably have comparable skills to what Jerome had when he was drafted.

Angelo Esposito
Alexei Cherepanov
James Van Riemsdyk
Jakub Voracek
Logan Couture

Yet you put Alzner ahead of all of them.

 

[Legionnaire]

But when Iginla was drafted he was not quite the player that he is today. If that was the case he would have definitely been drafted higher. All of these guys are about Iginla's size and probably have comparable skills to what Jerome had when he was drafted.

Angelo Esposito
Alexei Cherepanov
James Van Riemsdyk
Jakub Voracek
Logan Couture

Yet you put Alzner ahead of all of them.

Really? Because I remember Iginla racking up the PIMs and putting up goals in his draft year. I believe that his hockey sense was the knock against him.

Only two of those guys have a physical game though, and I have already stated that I would have no problem taking Coture. I have only seen Riemsdyk at the WJC's and he did have a bit of an edge, he wasn't that impressive. I know one tourney, but that's all I've got.

Espo is soft as butter.
Chrepenov is not overly physical
Voracek has a tendency to stick to the perimeter, and doesn't drive to the net enough for me. Correctable for sure. He would be my number three.