Allvin To Date (Management Discussion)

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orcatown

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Season is well underway and a fuller assessment of the Alvin/Rutherford moves, to date, are more in perspective. Going into the season, I gave them a B. That now appears to be wildly off the mark and those giving them a lower grade, and even an “F”, now appear a lot more perceptive. More time will be needed to evaluate fully their moves but based on what happened so far, would give the following analysis. Note this also include deals made during the season.

1. Signing Boeser – did mention this signing had every chance of being a mistake and, given Boeser’s play, that now appears the case. Might well be, league wise, the worse off season signing. Boeser’s play has not improved and, at his point, he is not NHL caliber. Ericksson, as dreadful as he was, might be his equal. Likely the team would have had a more effective player if they had resigned Chaisson and this could have been done fifth the price and with very little term. As it is, the team is stuck with a player they can’t unload unless they are willing to significantly add or a player that needs to bought out.

Grade F-

2. Miller signed – those advocating moving him for what they could get, now look correct. The points are there but anyone following the team knows his play has been far too erratic and the effort too sporadic. His gaffes have been critical in many of the losses. The fear, looking to the future, is that as he ages his play will continue to fall off and he will not come close to being worth his cap hit. Maybe the most troubling aspect of the contract is that it indicates the present regime is following the same forlorn strategy of the Benning years - trying to compete now with a team that can’t compete and screwing up any future.

Grade C-

3. Signing Kuzmenko – most notable move management is given credit for. To date, Kuzmenko has justified the effort to sign him. He’s shown he can score at this level and has fitted in well with the team. Might be some need to improve his play defensively but he has looked top 6 material offensively. One move, present management can point to with some pride. However, also has be recognized that we'll have an issue keeping him and that, in part, results from signing people like Boeser.

Grade A

4. Signing Mikheyev – whether this player is worth his price tag is debatable. We were warned that he had trouble putting away his chances and there has been evidence of this. Also, the hope that he would improve the PK has not been realized. But there have been enough periods of good play to give hope he can live up to his contract and he was important in getting Kuzmenko signed. Likely, team did overspend a bit here, but not so grievously as previous regime often did. (although they should be not be seen as legit means of comparison given how horrible they were)

Grade C

5. Signing Lazar – was brought in to play 4th line center but early on outplayed by Aman and shifted to the wing. Overall, has not lived up to promise. Might say he is an adequate 4th liner but, once again, has shown he cannot score and is mostly a low skill plumber at this level. Mostly flies under the radar. Doubt he has lived up to the promise, some have him. Not usuallynoticeably bad, but not noticeably good either

Grade C

6. Signing of Joshua – play has justified move. However, it is not like he couldn’t be replaced by dozens of other players. Brought in for toughness and has shown some of this. Also looks decent in play along the boards.

Should be noted here, that Joshua and Lazar were players brought in to improve the 4th line. Yet, at this point, the 4th line of last year was clearly better – especially in shutting down top lines and offensively. Plus players on that line were keys to a successful PK. If anything , Allvin’ s moves have led to a less effective 4th line

7. Signing Aman – Probably one of the better moves. But, in the end, not that significant. Aman is a good skater and stays in the play. However, it’s doubtful he is upgrade on Lammikko. One thing for sure is Aman is not an offensive threat. Even when he gets into a position where he should shoot, he defers and passes the puck away. Similar acquisition of Johansson also can be seen as positive given his play in Sweden.

8. Signing of Delia – I guess they’re lucky they have got someone given the situation with Demko but he has not shown well in Abbotsford . Likely could have done better had they waited for other teams to make their cuts and just kept DiPietro around till those cuts were made.

Grade D

8. AHL signings – Only the signing of Dries has had any effect on the parent club and that has been of negligible value. Good that they’re still trying to make Abby competitive and, with so few real prospects, can’t really say these vets are getting in the way of younger players. Bains has shown some and seems worth the flyer taken on him.

Grade C

9. Trade for Stillman – Allvin was, of course, left a number of bad situations, and getting rid of Dickinson was almost a must. But didn’t save much in getting back Stillman. In fact, buying out Dickinson would have saved more cap space and not saddled us with the useless Stillman and caused another decent draft choice to be lost. The idea that Allvin floated - that Stillman was a good 5th or 6th d-man - has proven to be a monumental miscalculation and, right now, you can only assume he meant for Abby. (and he might not even be that). Move indicates pro scouting remains abysmal.

Grade F-

Trade to Studnicka – career to date suggests he is dime a dozen, AHL-NHL tweener. Probably could have got better picking up someone off waivers and not given up anything. Also might have got damaged goods in this deal. Ultimately, appears that we gave up a promising prospect and for someone who has very suspect future. Trade has all the ear marks of one of those age gap fiascos Benning disastrously stumbled into and one we will likely rue in the future.

Grade D

Trade for Bear trade- Bear has the reputation of lacking physicality and awareness. So far, his play has ranged from okay to good. Could say the price was right. However, this might ignore the barrel the Hurricanes were over. Bear, in their system, was a non-playing salary cap problem. Canucks offered them a way out and very needed cap room. Allvin should have been able to have exacted more of a price. We should have added nothing.

Grade C+

Trade for Dermott – hard to assess other than to say he seems injury prone. One of the reasons Maple Leafs dumped him. Probably damaged good when they got him – especially concerning his shoulder. Team gave up a third rounder for a player that might have been headed for LTIR.

Grade C -

Others

Drafting Letermaki - at this point is not showing well. Drafts take much longer than this to assess but usually good players start showing quickly they are NHL material. Very rare for a player who will become a bona vide NHL player to take backward steps in their development. They may well plateau but not regress. Jury is totally out on this player but certainly cannot be pointed at by present management as an obvious success.

PR – Criticism of the coach went needlessly public. Also apparent cat fight has led to a law suit. this group needs to get a handle on this.

All in all, not a good record. Seems too much a continuation of the Benning approach. Beyond that, the poor evaluation of present players and those acquired through trade is reminiscence of the Benning era. In the end, Allvin has not improved the cap position (and in some ways made it worse) and has not addressed important problems like the defense.
 

PuckMunchkin

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Dec 13, 2006
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Agree with most. Looks like I will be eating a ton of crow on Boeser.

Disagree on your Miller and Bear grading.

The Miller signing I think is a franchise crippler. You do absolutely not want this guy around for a rebuild. When he isnt having fun he stops playing. You cannot have that around for a rebuild. Period.

Bear has been a fantastic addition. The fact that he is carrying OEL to respectability cannot be overstated. His puck retrieval especially has been the reason OEL isnt stuck in their own end. That being said, its not a trade that truely moves the needle for the team but its almost found money. Moving forward it gets tricky. He is up for a raise.
 

Canadian Canuck

Hughes4Calder
Jul 30, 2013
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It’s been an absolute joke. Continue to trading ****** picks and are at the bottom of the standings. Mind boggling. Dickinson trade was atrocious, Dermott trade isn’t looking good when he doesn’t even touch the ice due to injury. The only good acquisition was Ethan Bear. Thank God Kuzmenko chose us. This management group has been so disappointing. I’m not even being impatient. They’ve had a full year now and have not changed a single thing about this teams core which is CLEARLY not good enough. Change it now.

Also OP, your assessment of Bear is brutal. He’s been our best defenceman besides Hughes. That’s the one trade they actually got right. JT Miller should have not been resigned, awful awful awful decision. Now we likely trade Horvat (the much better player) because of it.
 

Hoglander

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Jan 4, 2019
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Overall, an E-

Kuz signing, Hamonic trade, Bear trade (upcoming contract is a concern) - were all good. Edit: Aman and Johansson were solid pickups as well.

Otherwise, this team really does suck, they've capped themselves out again, had to pay to become cap compliant, targeted players that aren't moving the needle while moving picks/prospects for them, talked tough about making moves and have not backed it up, called the team a country club then extended a major culprit to a crippling retirement deal, young players are regressing (including Hughes' defensive game/compete level) and not getting much opportunity, they've shown to be indecisive regarding the coaching, publicly stated they are going to lose trades, early signs showing they had a poor draft, shown an inability to read the trade market, and their "compete in 2 years" timeframe is being proven to be way off. They read the team wrong, chose the wrong direction to go in, and have made this team worse off than it was a year ago.

Edit: plus the Dorrie debacle, the contract drama around Miller and now Horvat - their fricken captain, Islander's GM getting upset with Van over a supposed deal before the draft, AHLer Zaitsev refusing a trade to Van... what else am I missing?
 
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PuckMunchkin

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Dec 13, 2006
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the one that continues to be a head-scratcher for me was signing Miller to that lengthy contract.....I have to think that somehow the owner was involved.
That is a weird road to go on that leads to giving former management muligans on their blunders.

Not willing to go there.




Off the ice they have not been much better. The disconnect between what they say and what they actually do has been basiclly night and day.

The handling of Bruce has been appalling.

The handling of Doerie a massive leadership failure.
 

theguardianII

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Jan 30, 2020
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All in all you were too easy on them.
While Rutherford is where the bucks stops it is his assigning Allvin the GM spot that is his worst move, by a mile.
Once he installed him as the GM he relinquished a lot of authority in making moves on the team.

All that has been posted HAS to be known to them now.

I can only think the 4 GM's are all on the phones lining up future trades or at least one trade with Lamorellio, he would keep it quiet.

The capologist must be wringing his/her hands and pulling out hair trying to figure out how to accommodate space so some moves can be made.

We the fans want to see something done fast because we the fans have been subjected to this kind of folly for years
BUT
We will have to wait, not for some kind of miracle on ice but for the cap hits to decrease.

I posted Ottawa is in year 4 of their blow up and rebuild, Montreal is just in year one both have as many wins as the Canucks.

Allvin and Rutherford are not blind but they also have to realize those time lines and results are not state secrets, they are there for most of the West coast to see daily because we can watch ALL the NHL games live and get to bed by 10:30 every night so we aren't being spoon fed only what the NHL or Rogers wants us to see.

Rutherford was right, we are an informed fan base and get to watch successful teams every game day. We have learned there is no mystery, magic or physics necessary.

Patience for now, but not for another FRACKIN YEAR!!!!!!

Bedard or not it is a deep draft, a possible franchise defining draft. Get a couple top 2 to 15 or a few later 1rst's and then some early 2nd rnd picks. One draft could change the fortunes IF THEY HAVE JOHONAS.

They have to know this market is not only ready but demanding a blow up and rebuild, the soap opera reruns are too old and predictable.
 

theguardianII

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Jan 30, 2020
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That is a weird road to go on that leads to giving former management muligans on their blunders.

Not willing to go there.




Off the ice they have not been much better. The disconnect between what they say and what they actually do has been basiclly night and day.

The handling of Bruce has been appalling.

The handling of Doerie a massive leadership failure.
It is all smoke an mirrors, distractions they hope to change the focus of some of the fans.

In the states the media and fans would be eating this other stuff up and ignoring the product on the ice for the most part.

The last, Doerie, might mean Allvin's job and front office changes, Rutherford may have to take over

Allvin and the Chipmnuks didn't just buy a broken down bridge, they did it a low tide! Talk about naïve. Granato should get out as quick as possible
 
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Breakers

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Aug 5, 2014
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Don’t talk about what you’re going to do

then turn around and do the exact franking opposite thing.

That’s why they are the “Next Year Nucks”

When he rarely makes a statement, he’ll probably talk about “patience” or some more BS like that.
 
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Canucker

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Oct 5, 2002
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For the most part I agree with the overall assessment...slight disagreement here and there regarding players, but overall its pretty accurate. I think part of the problem Allvin has is that it really seems that he's less of a GM and more of an "understudy" to JR, or maybe even part of a "brain trust" with Emilie Castonguay, Derek Clancy and Cammi Granato...but it all seems to funnel through JR at the end of the day.

I think my biggest issues with this management group are that they still don't seem to have a cohesive plan...complain about the defense, the defense remains virtually the same. Complain about Bruce Boudreau, he's still here. Need to fix the cap, still have cap problems. Need to get younger, guys like Rathbone and Podkolzin can't get into the lineup. They seem to understand some of their problems but haven't really taken any significant steps towards resolving them, and in some cases have only made them worse. I get that the marketplace hasn't been ideal for them, but you can't just tinker around and expect miracles with a team this dysfunctional.
 

PuckMunchkin

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Dec 13, 2006
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Lapland
It is all smoke an mirrors, distractions they hope to change the focus of some of the fans.

In the states the media and fans would be eating this other stuff up and ignoring the product on the ice for the most part.

The last, Doerie, might mean Allvin's job and front office changes, Rutherford may have to take over

Allvin and the Chipmnuks didn't just buy a broken down bridge, they did it a low tide! Talk about naïve. Granato should get out as quick as possible

What makes you think Rutherford isnt ultimately in charge right now?
 

Kevinsane

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Apr 11, 2022
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Season is well underway and a fuller assessment of the Alvin/Rutherford moves, to date, are more in perspective. Going into the season, I gave them a B. That now appears to be wildly off the mark and those giving them a lower grade, and even an “F”, now appear a lot more perceptive. More time will be needed to evaluate fully their moves but based on what happened so far, would give the following analysis. Note this also include deals made during the season.

1. Signing Boeser – did mention this signing had every chance of being a mistake and, given Boeser’s play, that now appears the case. Might well be, league wise, the worse off season signing. Boeser’s play has not improved and, at his point, he is not NHL caliber. Ericksson, as dreadful as he was, might be his equal. Likely the team would have had a more effective player if they had resigned Chaisson and this could have been done fifth the price and with very little term. As it is, the team is stuck with a player they can’t unload unless they are willing to significantly add or a player that needs to bought out.

Grade F-

2. Miller signed – those advocating moving him for what they could get, now look correct. The points are there but anyone following the team knows his play has been far too erratic and the effort too sporadic. His gaffes have been critical in many of the losses. The fear, looking to the future, is that as he ages his play will continue to fall off and he will not come close to being worth his cap hit. Maybe the most troubling aspect of the contract is that it indicates the present regime is following the same forlorn strategy of the Benning years - trying to compete now with a team that can’t compete and screwing up any future.

Grade C-

3. Signing Kuzmenko – most notable move management is given credit for. To date, Kuzmenko has justified the effort to sign him. He’s shown he can score at this level and has fitted in well with the team. Might be some need to improve his play defensively but he has looked top 6 material offensively. One move, present management can point to with some pride. However, also has be recognized that we'll have an issue keeping him and that, in part, results from signing people like Boeser.

Grade A

4. Signing Mikheyev – whether this player is worth his price tag is debatable. We were warned that he had trouble putting away his chances and there has been evidence of this. Also, the hope that he would improve the PK has not been realized. But there have been enough periods of good play to give hope he can live up to his contract and he was important in getting Kuzmenko signed. Likely, team did overspend a bit here, but not so grievously as previous regime often did. (although they should be not be seen as legit means of comparison given how horrible they were)

Grade C

5. Signing Lazar – was brought in to play 4th line center but early on outplayed by Aman and shifted to the wing. Overall, has not lived up to promise. Might say he is an adequate 4th liner but, once again, has shown he cannot score and is mostly a low skill plumber at this level. Mostly flies under the radar. Doubt he has lived up to the promise, some have him. Not usuallynoticeably bad, but not noticeably good either

Grade C

6. Signing of Joshua – play has justified move. However, it is not like he couldn’t be replaced by dozens of other players. Brought in for toughness and has shown some of this. Also looks decent in play along the boards.

Should be noted here, that Joshua and Lazar were players brought in to improve the 4th line. Yet, at this point, the 4th line of last year was clearly better – especially in shutting down top lines and offensively. Plus players on that line were keys to a successful PK. If anything , Allvin’ s moves have led to a less effective 4th line

7. Signing Aman – Probably one of the better moves. But, in the end, not that significant. Aman is a good skater and stays in the play. However, it’s doubtful he is upgrade on Lammikko. One thing for sure is Aman is not an offensive threat. Even when he gets into a position where he should shoot, he defers and passes the puck away. Similar acquisition of Johansson also can be seen as positive given his play in Sweden.

8. Signing of Delia – I guess they’re lucky they have got someone given the situation with Demko but he has not shown well in Abbotsford . Likely could have done better had they waited for other teams to make their cuts and just kept DiPietro around till those cuts were made.

Grade D

8. AHL signings – Only the signing of Dries has had any effect on the parent club and that has been of negligible value. Good that they’re still trying to make Abby competitive and, with so few real prospects, can’t really say these vets are getting in the way of younger players. Bains has shown some and seems worth the flyer taken on him.

Grade C

9. Trade for Stillman – Allvin was, of course, left a number of bad situations, and getting rid of Dickinson was almost a must. But didn’t save much in getting back Stillman. In fact, buying out Dickinson would have saved more cap space and not saddled us with the useless Stillman and caused another decent draft choice to be lost. The idea that Allvin floated - that Stillman was a good 5th or 6th d-man - has proven to be a monumental miscalculation and, right now, you can only assume he meant for Abby. (and he might not even be that). Move indicates pro scouting remains abysmal.

Grade F-

Trade to Studnicka – career to date suggests he is dime a dozen, AHL-NHL tweener. Probably could have got better picking up someone off waivers and not given up anything. Also might have got damaged goods in this deal. Ultimately, appears that we gave up a promising prospect and for someone who has very suspect future. Trade has all the ear marks of one of those age gap fiascos Benning disastrously stumbled into and one we will likely rue in the future.

Grade D

Trade for Bear trade- Bear has the reputation of lacking physicality and awareness. So far, his play has ranged from okay to good. Could say the price was right. However, this might ignore the barrel the Hurricanes were over. Bear, in their system, was a non-playing salary cap problem. Canucks offered them a way out and very needed cap room. Allvin should have been able to have exacted more of a price. We should have added nothing.

Grade C+

Trade for Dermott – hard to assess other than to say he seems injury prone. One of the reasons Maple Leafs dumped him. Probably damaged good when they got him – especially concerning his shoulder. Team gave up a third rounder for a player that might have been headed for LTIR.

Grade C -

Others

Drafting Letermaki - at this point is not showing well. Drafts take much longer than this to assess but usually good players start showing quickly they are NHL material. Very rare for a player who will become a bona vide NHL player to take backward steps in their development. They may well plateau but not regress. Jury is totally out on this player but certainly cannot be pointed at by present management as an obvious success.

PR – Criticism of the coach went needlessly public. Also apparent cat fight has led to a law suit. this group needs to get a handle on this.

All in all, not a good record. Seems too much a continuation of the Benning approach. Beyond that, the poor evaluation of present players and those acquired through trade is reminiscence of the Benning era. In the end, Allvin has not improved the cap position (and in some ways made it worse) and has not addressed important problems like the defense.
We all so badly wanted for Allvin to be a success, and I think the bar was pretty low to impress us.
Just don’t trade away draft picks or sign albatross contracts. Improve the pro scouting.
As you pointed out so well, that’s unfortunately exactly what happened, minus the pro scouting being better.
There’s also the perception that Allvin doesn’t even call the shots, that it’s still Rutherford running it by Frankie. Whether that’s true or not, it sure still seems Benningesque, and that’s worrying.
 

theguardianII

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Jan 30, 2020
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What makes you think Rutherford isnt ultimately in charge right now?
He hired Allvin to be the GM if he doesn't let him do the job then he has to fire him.
But at some point he can reprimand him for poor performance. This isn't a school for teaching after all is it? Kinda wonder after Elmer was here.

Yes I do think Rutherford is ultimately in charge he just is giving Allvin and the Chipmunks a chance to fix the mess, but I am pretty sure Allvin has got the message but now has to wait to make moves.

And if Allvin didn't get the message from Rutherford he has to have got it from the players, they seem like they are trying to play their way out of this dog's breakfast. The way they are playing does Rutherford need to spell it out?

I think the president is doing the president job and Allvin was/is doing the GM job.
But as I posted once that other front office problem might cost Allvin his job.
 

LaVal

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Dec 13, 2002
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With how highly touted this year's draft is, and how many assets Vancouver had to trade, it was the perfect opportunity to stock up on some draft picks and really fill up the cupboard to set the team up for some success in a few years.

Instead they doubled down on a failed roster, re-signed everybody to large crippling contracts, and there isn't anything promising on the horizon. Miller and Boeser are now unmovable, Garland has tanked his value, Hoglander and Podkolzin have taken large steps backwards, their recent 1st round pick's development has been concerning, and for the first time in over 15 years goaltending is a problem.

This management is no better than Benning.
 

timw33

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They started off saying a lot of things that we were all starved to hear, and it truly looked like some big changes were coming to this roster, but that never really materialized and confidence has dropped in a big way.

Signing Boeser was the big "ah...so this is how it's going to be" moment for me, followed by the backbreaking Miller extension.

Barring some creative and aggressive restructuring of the roster, I'm not going to get my hopes up for this team actually putting itself on a path for sustainable success.
 

Burke's Evil Spirit

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Oct 29, 2002
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They started off saying a lot of things that we were all starved to hear, and it truly looked like some big changes were coming to this roster, but that never really materialized and confidence has dropped in a big way.

Signing Boeser was the big "ah...so this is how it's going to be" moment for me, followed by the backbreaking Miller extension.

Barring some creative and aggressive restructuring of the roster, I'm not going to get my hopes up for this team actually putting itself on a path for sustainable success.

For me it's the Miller extension.

Boeser to me *was* a rebuilding move. Give him some term, let him rebuild some value, etc.
 

timw33

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For me it's the Miller extension.

Boeser to me *was* a rebuilding move. Give him some term, let him rebuild some value, etc.

I think paired with the Miller extension the Boeser contract became a "let's win now!" move, unfortunately. If it was sign Boeser and trade Miller, and they are just boosting Boeser in top minutes for a trade that's another thing entirely.
 

DS7

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Oct 9, 2013
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I was hoping we wouldn't have another Rookie GM when Rutherford was looking for JB's replacement. But then again, no experienced GM with pedigree will probably want to be reporting to this ownership.
 
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