TSN: Allvin to be named Canucks next GM

[Honour Over Glory]

I’m just going to bookmark this thread for when JR trades JT Miller + 1st for ZAR.

I am laughing at the whole defending JR bit, it's giving me a good chuckle.

I was one of the few left that even defended JR until the reality of his stupidity set in and just how f***ed we are. I mean even Allvin, who is responsible for Legare and Poulin of all names, is hailed as doing well with those two picks.

Two picks that right now in the AHL, barely look like half decent AHL talent, which might be JD Forrest's problem, but as a head scout and someone that should know better, Allvin f***ing sucked.

Good riddance to JR being gone and now Allvin, lettuce be grateful that one idiotic franchise took our garbage a few times in recent years - Pouliot, Sutter, JR, and now Allvin.

 

[Gurglesons]

I am laughing at the whole defending JR bit, it's giving me a good chuckle.

I was one of the few left that even defended JR until the reality of his stupidity set in and just how f***ed we are. I mean even Allvin, who is responsible for Legare and Poulin of all names, is hailed as doing well with those two picks.

Two picks that right now in the AHL, barely look like half decent AHL talent, which might be JD Forrest's problem, but as a head scout and someone that should know better, Allvin f***ing sucked.

Good riddance to JR being gone and now Allvin, lettuce be grateful that one idiotic franchise took our garbage a few times in recent years - Pouliot, Sutter, JR, and now Allvin.

Poulin seems to have come on since being scratched. 7 pts in his last 10.

Plus Big Puusy.

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean, the only thing I said was that JR is smarter than Benning. He has 3 Stanley Cups as a GM. Benning was a GM once and has a team near the cap that's at the bottom of the league. I don't really think I'm being that controversial here.

JR won back to back cups by falling backwards into a Kessel deal that basically involved our entire front office arguing like a bunch of kids on the draft floor.

We all appreciate what he did here, but he also spent 4 of his 6 years taking the piss.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

JR won back to back cups by falling backwards into a Kessel deal that basically involved our entire front office arguing like a bunch of kids on the draft floor.

We all appreciate what he did here, but he also spent 4 of his 6 years taking the piss.

Mate he more than took the piss, he f***ing lost the plot all together in the last 4yrs.

What those dipshits don't understand is that JR was a Penguins GM for 7yrs.

Year 1 (2014-15) - He hired MJ and almost made Crosby want to quit.
Year 2 (2015-2016) - He fired MJ and promoted MS and all of the previously drafted prospects started to make a huge impact as well as some moves he made.
Year 3 (2016-2017) - Repeat of cup.
Year 4-7 (2017-2021) - Absolute shit show. Poor drafting with Allvin, bizarre moves, some really bad off season signings, the Penguins entire developmental system turned into a joke with poor drafting and very few prospects making impacts.

Hextall is basically in this job a year and a half and still assessing the damage.

 

[Pens x]

Mate he more than took the piss, he f***ing lost the plot all together in the last 4yrs.

What those dipshits don't understand is that JR was a Penguins GM for 7yrs.

Year 1 (2014-15) - He hired MJ and almost made Crosby want to quit.
Year 2 (2015-2016) - He fired MJ and promoted MS and all of the previously drafted prospects started to make a huge impact as well as some moves he made.
Year 3 (2016-2017) - Repeat of cup.
Year 4-7 (2017-2021) - Absolute shit show. Poor drafting with Allvin, bizarre moves, some really bad off season signings, the Penguins entire developmental system turned into a joke with poor drafting and very few prospects making impacts.

Hextall is basically in this job a year and a half and still assessing the damage.

Hextall thrives at sitting back napping, I mean assessing.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Poulin seems to have come on since being scratched. 7 pts in his last 10.

Plus Big Puusy.

I don't even want to give him the Puustinen pick because he hasn't gotten credit for it - What they credited him with was Legare, Poulin, Hallander and another bloke.

 

[jackjohnson]

JR has the bare minimum of IQ is what we're saying based on years of his service here.

You lot have months and know better apparently.

JR with his bare minimum IQ has won 3 cups, while many high IQ ones like Chayka have bombed.

 

[jackjohnson]

Mate he more than took the piss, he f***ing lost the plot all together in the last 4yrs.

What those dipshits don't understand is that JR was a Penguins GM for 7yrs.

Year 1 (2014-15) - He hired MJ and almost made Crosby want to quit.
Year 2 (2015-2016) - He fired MJ and promoted MS and all of the previously drafted prospects started to make a huge impact as well as some moves he made.
Year 3 (2016-2017) - Repeat of cup.
Year 4-7 (2017-2021) - Absolute shit show. Poor drafting with Allvin, bizarre moves, some really bad off season signings, the Penguins entire developmental system turned into a joke with poor drafting and very few prospects making impacts.

Hextall is basically in this job a year and a half and still assessing the damage.

You guys were really unhappy with JR but isnt Hextall another retread that got fired from philly? He was also the guy that didnt draft Makar and instead drafted Nolan going against what their scouts wanted.

 

[jackjohnson]

Hextall thrives at sitting back napping, I mean assessing.

I also wouldnt trust Hextall with draft picks eapecially high picks

 

[Peat]

You guys were really unhappy with JR but isnt Hextall another retread that got fired from philly? He was also the guy that didnt draft Makar and instead drafted Nolan going against what their scouts wanted.

Falling out with a badly ran Flyers organisation is practically a letter of recommendation around these parts. They wanted to end their rebuild, Hextall didn't, now Hextall is here looking good and the Flyers look awful.

Re the Makar/Patrick thing -

1) We only have Clarke's word for it, and it came during Clarke attempting to throw Hextall under the bus in order to distract people from the Flyers ongoing incompetence. Nobody else has told their side of the story. The Flyers then director of scouting is now the Penguins director of player personnel so you've got to wonder if it really was a big disagreement, or even one at all.

2) Even if he did, so what? They all make mistakes, and the rankings show he wasn't the only one who'd have made that one, and who knows what would have happened to Patrick if Hextall was still pulling the strings there and he hadn't had all those health problems? You look at all the recent cup winners, you'll see plenty of "but why" moments; look at the scouting departments that have done great, and there's still plenty of underwhelming picks. They all look dumb at those moments and it's about looking at the bigger picture.

And yeah, by that metric, the people harping on about Rutherford's shortcomings are being a little irrational. That said, his tendency for big bold action means he often looks a genius when it works and a moron when it doesn't, and he often undoes his own work at both ends. He spends more time at both extremes than most NHL executives. The two orgs he won cups at have plenty of fans quite exasperated with him.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Personally, I think it's weirder that he's going to GM a made-up Seattle suburb than anything else. Nobody serious believes Vancouver's a real city. It's just old stock footage from Twin Peaks.

 

[Pens x]

You guys were really unhappy with JR but isnt Hextall another retread that got fired from philly? He was also the guy that didnt draft Makar and instead drafted Nolan going against what their scouts wanted.

We fired a crappy GM and hired another crappy GM.

 

[Pens x]

Falling out with a badly ran Flyers organisation is practically a letter of recommendation around these parts. They wanted to end their rebuild, Hextall didn't, now Hextall is here looking good and the Flyers look awful.

Re the Makar/Patrick thing -

1) We only have Clarke's word for it, and it came during Clarke attempting to throw Hextall under the bus in order to distract people from the Flyers ongoing incompetence. Nobody else has told their side of the story. The Flyers then director of scouting is now the Penguins director of player personnel so you've got to wonder if it really was a big disagreement, or even one at all.

2) Even if he did, so what? They all make mistakes, and the rankings show he wasn't the only one who'd have made that one, and who knows what would have happened to Patrick if Hextall was still pulling the strings there and he hadn't had all those health problems? You look at all the recent cup winners, you'll see plenty of "but why" moments; look at the scouting departments that have done great, and there's still plenty of underwhelming picks. They all look dumb at those moments and it's about looking at the bigger picture.

And yeah, by that metric, the people harping on about Rutherford's shortcomings are being a little irrational. That said, his tendency for big bold action means he often looks a genius when it works and a moron when it doesn't, and he often undoes his own work at both ends. He spends more time at both extremes than most NHL executives. The two orgs he won cups at have plenty of fans quite exasperated with him.

What about hiring Dave Hakstol, his son’s college coach that had zero NHL experience? How about hiring his son’s former coach to the Monarchs? Said son now works for the Penguins.

After Clarke’s story, Andy Strickland confirmed that Hextall is kind of a tyrant. It also wasn’t the first time this story has been told.

JR needed to go, for sure, but we hired a dud in his place.

 

[Deport Ogie]

We fired a crappy GM and hired another crappy GM.

 

[SomeDude]

Ron Hextall hired Ron Hextall to be his assistant GM. Hextall also names Ronald Hextall as head scout and head of analytics.

He also appointed you traveling secretary of cold takes.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

JR with his bare minimum IQ has won 3 cups, while many high IQ ones like Chayka have bombed.

Carolina one was after how many years as a GM?

The Pens back 2 back was more so carried by the sheer will of the Pens core and Sully being too confused in his new role to allow his stubbornness to set in.

The 4yrs after the cup is more of an indication of his Management. Same for the hurricanes. After the cup they slowly turned to shit.

 

[dogthateats]

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

McHurt M4 level rumor -- "I'm hearing speculation Nylander is going to follow Allvin to Vancouver in a larger deal for J.T. Miller."

 

[Peat]

Huh, so he was GM of WBS as well. Weird that was so little publicised.

 

[Pens x]

Seems like a classy move to do.

 

[jackjohnson]

Carolina one was after how many years as a GM?

The Pens back 2 back was more so carried by the sheer will of the Pens core and Sully being too confused in his new role to allow his stubbornness to set in.

The 4yrs after the cup is more of an indication of his Management. Same for the hurricanes. After the cup they slowly turned to shit.

This is funny...lets ignore the cup wins and focus on years he didnt win a cup and if he wins one, its because of other factors. I could basically use that logic for any GM to make them look bad. He has won 3 cups at the end of the day, but go on. Canucka havent won one in 50 years.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

McHurt M4 level rumor -- "I'm hearing speculation Nylander is going to follow Allvin to Vancouver in a larger deal for J.T. Miller."

I mean what is he going to pick apart from our whack prospect pool that JR ensured we'd have and he scouted?

"We will trade the Penguins our 1st for Jan Drozg."

Hextall...

"well this is a hard one for us to do but we'll have to do it I suppose..."

 

[Dough72]

The two orgs he won cups at have plenty of fans quite exasperated with him.

that happens to every gm in the history of sports. Because eventually every gm is going to make some bad signing/draft/trade because sports has a lot of dumb luck involved and tons of things a gm has no control over. And when it happens the fans say the gm is bad even though he is the exact same guy. At least with cup winners you know they know what winning hockey looks like. Right now there are gms who's fans are happy but its only because he found some dumb luck in the draft or whatever and it's really anyone's guess if that guy knows what winning hockey looks like or how to build it

 

[Honour Over Glory]

that happens to every gm in the history of sports. Because eventually every gm is going to make some bad signing/draft/trade because sports has a lot of dumb luck involved and tons of things a gm has no control over. And when it happens the fans say the gm is bad even though he is the exact same guy. At least with cup winners you know they know what winning hockey looks like. Right now there are gms who's fans are happy but its only because he found some dumb luck in the draft or whatever and it's really anyone's guess if that guy knows what winning hockey looks like or how to build it

In a sense, yes, that's what happens. But there were some egregious moves made by JR before the cups that were helpful to what the Penguins were trending back towards and then after he made moves that helped the Penguins effectively close their window a lot for whatever contender status they had left at that point. They became a bubble team that lost a lot of what made them back 2 back champs.

The funny thing is when outsiders come and tell you what's what when we're discussing it on a day to day basis, there's the outside perspective from someone that follows the team but isn't a fan, but someone that recently takes on an ex-gm of a team, will have this need to just focus on the success and blame the bad stuff on "well that's just a little bit of the bad that comes with the job!"

No, he destroyed the Penguins prospect pool that was already middle of the pack before he got there, maybe even lower, usually contenders are in the bottom of the prospect pool because they moved a lot of picks, but they trend back up eventually, Penguins continued to trend down and kept getting further out of the contender status range. JR had a lot to do with that. So why is it possible for him to be 100% responsible for the cups, but not 100% responsible for the last 4 years where the Penguins became a massive hot mess?

The last good things JR did was the Jarry contract and getting Kapanen back. That Zucker deal does not look good in the least bit though.

I still remember when Devils fans told us Shero will fix their team and win them a cup again, we all knew Shero's faults and had seen him long enough away from the Cup to know what he was also capable of. Usually what a Gm has done last, is what you'll get. What JR did the last 4yrs, is closer to what the JR you'll see in Vancouver.

Hiring yes men, being mad when power is taken away from him, etc.

 

[Pens x]

I mean what is he going to pick apart from our whack prospect pool that JR ensured we'd have and he scouted?

"We will trade the Penguins our 1st for Jan Drozg."

Hextall...

"well this is a hard one for us to do but we'll have to do it I suppose..."

Hextall: “I’ll need to assess this offer. Can I get back to you in 2 years? I’ll need to consult my team, my son and the CMU intern stat person.”