All's Fehr in Love and War (CBA & Lockout Discussion) - Part VII

[LadyStanley]

http://spectorshockey.net/blog/nhl-cba-crack-hunters/

Richardson: If you're looking for cracks in current negotiations, hard to find.

 

[Deebo]

What entitles the players to the extra 14% they are getting over the owners?

If one cannot exist without the other, why is it not 50/50?

What entitled them to the "Extra 14%" over the last 7 years was a collectively bargained agreement between the NHL and the NHLPA.

Going forward, the players will be entitled to whatever percentage the NHL and NHLPA agree upon in a new CBA.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/donald-fehr-nuclear-option-vs-nhl-140036957--nhl.html

Puck Daddy: Fehr's nuclear option vs NHL

There are two thoughts that linger in the deepest, most cynical and fatalistic portion of our hockey brains.

The first is that a players' union doesn't hire Donald Fehr to strike a deal in October or November. The second is that the NHLPA, with Fehr carrying its flag, so despises Gary Bettman and so desires a victory against the owners that something as self-defeating as an attack on the salary cap might actually happen.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

What entitled them to the "Extra 14%" over the last 7 years was a collectively bargained agreement between the NHL and the NHLPA.

Going forward, the players will be entitled to whatever percentage the NHL and NHLPA agree upon in a new CBA.

I get that they were entitled to it in the previous CBA but what leg do they have to stand on other than "we deserve more because you shut up"

 

[GoJetsGo55]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/donald-fehr-nuclear-option-vs-nhl-140036957--nhl.html

Puck Daddy: Fehr's nuclear option vs NHL

What a moronic stance for them to take. The NHLPA is acting like they WANT to miss 2 seasons. The Crosby's and Ovechkins will be fine but your average 4th liners are going to have to start pumping gas soon.

Has anyone checked on Krys Barch lately? Is he ok? I hope that ****er goes broke.

 

[Harry22]

What a moronic stance for them to take. The NHLPA is acting like they WANT to miss 2 seasons. The Crosby's and Ovechkins will be fine but your average 4th liners are going to have to start pumping gas soon.

Has anyone checked on Krys Barch lately? Is he ok? I hope that ****er goes broke.

450 players will fold if it goes beyond a season. It's so obvious.

 

[Deebo]

I get that they were entitled to it in the previous CBA but what leg do they have to stand on other than "we deserve more because you shut up"

It's not even that that players don't accept that they percentage has to drop.

From everything I've read, the owners want the cut in percentage to happen all in year one and players want to freeze salaries and have the percentage fall as revenues rise and salaries stay the same.

I think the only way a deal gets done any time soon is if the PA propose a deal that lowers the amount of actual dollars they get in year 1 by a tangible amount.

Something like 53-54% for year one and freeze it there as long as that amount is higher than 50% and then link it at 50% going forward.

 

[Butch 19]

What a moronic stance for them to take. The NHLPA is acting like they WANT to miss 2 seasons. The Crosby's and Ovechkins will be fine but your average 4th liners are going to have to start pumping gas soon.

Has anyone checked on Krys Barch lately? Is he ok? I hope that ****er goes broke.

Someday - it maybe be today, a week or a month from now, or even 6 months from now: many NHL players will realize: "ya know, we were averaging $2.5m last year, now we're getting nothing.

Even if the 2.5 drops to 2.1 or even 2.0, that's pretty good money I must say. And it's a whole lot more than zero. hmm...."

 

[Dado]

I think the nuclear option lies elsewhere.

IE, with the fans.

Because I'm realizing this morning that I no longer really give a **** about the league or how this all plays out.

 

[PaPaDee]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/donald-fehr-nuclear-option-vs-nhl-140036957--nhl.html

Puck Daddy: Fehr's nuclear option vs NHL

It would totally defy logic for the PA to fight against the Cap, as the NHL would be on hiatus long term or perhaps, might even fold. But both the PA and the NHL haven't done anything so far in these negotiations to lead me to believe that there's any common sense or logic in them.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

You certainly are missing something here. Owners are spending to the cap, when the team doesn't have the money. They want their team competitive at any cost. In their minds, if they become a solid playoff team, maybe even win the cup, they'll start becoming profitable! If they don't make the playoffs, or the fans still don't come to games, then it's, "oh well, let's cry how poor we are and hammer the players in the next CBA negotiations".

In my mind, you can't just mismanage a team and then blame it on the player's salaries. I think the player's do need to give back a little, but the revenue sharing model makes sense. How is it fair that if the player's gave in, that the remaining 20 teams become profitable (despite poor management/location/performance), and the 10 already immensely profitable teams start raking in even more profit. There needs to be compromise.

This post mirrors my thoughts.

If the owners don't change their approach this could be long and scary

 

[pepty]

What a moronic stance for them to take. The NHLPA is acting like they WANT to miss 2 seasons. The Crosby's and Ovechkins will be fine but your average 4th liners are going to have to start pumping gas soon.

Has anyone checked on Krys Barch lately? Is he ok? I hope that ****er goes broke.

Moronic yes-but who are we talking about?

The Goodenow guys, Ference and the others that pitched Kelly over the side, Richard Rodier, agents such as Alan Walsh and Ian Pulvar, Eric Lindros- all these people want revenge on Bettman and seemingly dont seem to care about the players whose careers may be shortened or finished if this goes for a year.

All the gag inducing hypocrisy about this being for the future-baloney. This is about revenge and ego gratification of a certain group of people in the PA who have manipulated the players into being their dupes.

 

[Kane One]

I guess Del Zotto couldn't find a job in Europe, and resorted to working in a supermarket.

 

[PaPaDee]

Moronic yes-but who are we talking about?

The Goodenow guys, Ference and the others that pitched Kelly over the side, Richard Rodier, agents such as Alan Walsh and Ian Pulvar, Eric Lindros- all these people want revenge on Bettman and seemingly dont seem to care about the players whose careers may be shortened or finished if this goes for a year.

All the gag inducing hypocrisy about this being for the future-baloney. This is about revenge and ego gratification of a certain group of people in the PA who have manipulated the players into being their dupes.

Well put. I'm sure if the NHL had axed Bettman and hired somebody else as the commissioner, the negotiations would be going in a completely different direction.

 

[pepty]

It's not even that that players don't accept that they percentage has to drop.

From everything I've read, the owners want the cut in percentage to happen all in year one and players want to freeze salaries and have the percentage fall as revenues rise and salaries stay the same.I think the only way a deal gets done any time soon is if the PA propose a deal that lowers the amount of actual dollars they get in year 1 by a tangible amount.

Something like 53-54% for year one and freeze it there as long as that amount is higher than 50% and then link it at 50% going forward.

Where have you read that?

The players want to freeze salaries?

 

[CerebralGenesis]

In their attempt for revenge, they will undo themselves. Funny how that works if they try it.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

The Goodenow guys, Ference and the others that pitched Kelly over the side, Richard Rodier, agents such as Alan Walsh and Ian Pulvar, Eric Lindros- all these people want revenge on Bettman and seemingly dont seem to care about the players whose careers may be shortened or finished if this goes for a year.

All the gag inducing hypocrisy about this being for the future-baloney. This is about revenge and ego gratification of a certain group of people in the PA who have manipulated the players into being their dupes.

I hope this isn't the case and the "the lockout wasn't worth it" players are able to provide some perspective.

 

[pepty]

Well put. I'm sure if the NHL had axed Bettman and hired somebody else as the commissioner, the negotiations would be going in a completely different direction.

I am sure it woudn't take any time for them to demonize the new guy once they discovered that the commisioner is working for the owners and not for himself.Look at the shots being taken at Daly now.

Also the owners who are perceived as the hardliners are also being demonized and are likley in for a little vengeful pay back too.

 

[Positive]

You certainly are missing something here. Owners are spending to the cap, when the team doesn't have the money. They want their team competitive at any cost. In their minds, if they become a solid playoff team, maybe even win the cup, they'll start becoming profitable! If they don't make the playoffs, or the fans still don't come to games, then it's, "oh well, let's cry how poor we are and hammer the players in the next CBA negotiations".

In my mind, you can't just mismanage a team and then blame it on the player's salaries. I think the player's do need to give back a little, but the revenue sharing model makes sense. How is it fair that if the player's gave in, that the remaining 20 teams become profitable (despite poor management/location/performance), and the 10 already immensely profitable teams start raking in even more profit. There needs to be compromise.

Who is spending to the cap? Nobody right now, though Boston and Minnesota are close. Teams are spending to the floor of course, but only half the teams are even above $60 million (cap is $70 million).

http://www.capgeek.com/

 

[Honeycutt]

Are the two sides of idiots still in their morning meeting?

 

[GoJetsGo55]

Someday - it maybe be today, a week or a month from now, or even 6 months from now: many NHL players will realize: "ya know, we were averaging $2.5m last year, now we're getting nothing.

Even if the 2.5 drops to 2.1 or even 2.0, that's pretty good money I must say. And it's a whole lot more than zero. hmm...."

EXACTLY! To me, this is a personal thing when it should be treated as a business decision.

 

[TheTakedown]

I wonder if the salary cap crap is a PR leak...

 

[PaPaDee]

Moronic yes-but who are we talking about?

The Goodenow guys, Ference and the others that pitched Kelly over the side, Richard Rodier, agents such as Alan Walsh and Ian Pulvar, Eric Lindros- all these people want revenge on Bettman and seemingly dont seem to care about the players whose careers may be shortened or finished if this goes for a year.

All the gag inducing hypocrisy about this being for the future-baloney. This is about revenge and ego gratification of a certain group of people in the PA who have manipulated the players into being their dupes.

The ironic thing is that the players were forced to "settle" for this horrible cap deal, yet their average salaries went from $1.46M at the beginning of this agreement to $2.4M - around 64% increase - not too shabby.

 

[goyotes]

I lost interest in the NBA over labour issues, and don't watch its product anylonger. I lost interest in MLB over labour issues, and watch a lot less of its product now too. I am very close to feeling the same about the NHL. The only real difference is that in the US, I think you might have to be a little more conscious about being a hockey fan, and so maybe the connection for me to hockey than the other three major sports is stronger. I'm not inferring I love hockey more than my Canadian friends by any means, just that severing that tie for me would be harder than it was for the NBA and MLB because I always had the NFL and the NHL to follow.

Both sides are acting nuts. The league cannot afford a protracted labour stoppage/lock out. In most markets with the exception of maybe Canada, NYC, Chicago, Philly, Boston and Detroit, attendance will take a serious step backwards.

 

[MJB Devils23*]

Holy crap. I never knew the players and owners hated each other THAT much!