All-Time Team

[VMBM]

Makarov wasn't great?

Well, he got me fooled then.

And yes, I do think Mikhailov was great too. I can understand that if one puts great emphasis on individual skills [when judging players], Mikhailov isn't among the first choices, but c'mon now; His numbers are 2nd to none, and he had one of the best - if not the best - careers of any Soviet player ever. In fact, I think he beats Kharlamov on both. I like to compare him with Bobby Clarke; both were leaders and hugely competitive, and both were hell to play against (ask Phil Esposito about Mikhailov, he is still wearing the scars!). Mikhailov was also one of the very few Soviet players who seemed to get better with age. Only around Lake Placid [as a 35-year old] did he seem to slow down considerably.

 

[hockeymaneeak*]

Makarov wasn't great?

Well, he got me fooled then.

And yes, I do think Mikhailov was great too. I can understand that if one puts great emphasis on individual skills [when judging players], Mikhailov isn't among the first choices, but c'mon now; His numbers are 2nd to none, and he had one of the best - if not the best - careers of any Soviet player ever. In fact, I think he beats Kharlamov on both. I like to compare him with Bobby Clarke; both were leaders and hugely competitive, and both were hell to play against (ask Phil Esposito about Mikhailov, he is still wearing the scars!). Mikhailov was also one of the very few Soviet players who seemed to get better with age. Only around Lake Placid [as a 35-year old] did he seem to slow down considerably.

Fine. Call them great, but Firsov, Fetisov, Tretiak, and Kharlamov were all better.

 

[VMBM]

Fine. Call them great, but Firsov, Fetisov, Tretiak, and Kharlamov were all better.

Maybe, even though it's hard for me to compare skaters & goalies.

 

[hockeymaneeak*]

Maybe, even though it's hard for me to compare skaters & goalies.

Fair enough, we'll say Larionov then, I think he's a bit better than Mikhailov.

 

[Boxscore]

Where does Dmitri Khristich rank on the all-time Russian list?

 

[hockeymaneeak*]

Where does Dmitri Khristich rank on the all-time Russian list?

I hope you mean Soviet, he's from Ukraine.

 

[Boxscore]

I hope you mean Soviet, he's from Ukraine.

Yes, Soviet.

 

[lextune]

Richard and Howe are both somewhat overrated IMO.

It is not really possible to "overrate" Gordie Howe.

 

[lextune]

The only two players who should be argued over Howe are Gretzky and Orr. MAYBE Lemieux (and a big maybe- I wouldn't do it). That's it.

^This.

 

[Leafs Forever]

LeafsForever, do you think we could see your team?
(Like legit question, I actually wanna see it.)

Booby Hull-Wayne Gretzky-Gordie Howe
Ted Lindsay-Mario Lemieux-Maurice Richard
Frank Nighbor-Bobby Clarke-Jari Kurri
Dickie Moore-Stan Mikita-Bill Cook

Bobby Orr-Eddie Shore
Doug Harvey-Raymond Bourque
Niklas Lidstrom-Denis Potvin

Jacques Plante
Patrick Roy
Dominik Hasek

 

[hockeymaneeak*]

Booby Hull-Wayne Gretzky-Gordie Howe
Ted Lindsay-Mario Lemieux-Maurice Richard
Frank Nighbor-Bobby Clarke-Jari Kurri
Dickie Moore-Stan Mikita-Bill Cook

Bobby Orr-Eddie Shore
Doug Harvey-Raymond Bourque
Niklas Lidstrom-Denis Potvin

Jacques Plante
Patrick Roy
Dominik Hasek

Only three MAJOR disagreements..
Your 3rd and 4th line LW's
and 4th line RW
No Tretiak

 

[Leafs Forever]

Only three MAJOR disagreements..
Your 3rd and 4th line LW's
and 4th line RW
No Tretiak

I focused on LW's that actually bring the intangibles suited ofr a bottom-6 role on an all-time team (not a huge fan of pure scoring from a bottom-6 line). Khlarmov does not bring a ton in intangibles are far as I know.

I'm not sure if you know who Frank Nighbor is, but he's one of the best two-way players ever. His defensive skills were said to have stopped powerful teams cold- and he was a great offensive player as well, leading in scoring at least once I think, numerous other top-5's and tens. A top-40 or 50 player ever.

Moore brings good intangibles as well, although I'm more open to switching him out for the right guy- but they'd have to bring intangibles, and good offense too.

Bill Cook is a fantastic offensive powerforward who works well in a fourth line RW. Brings more intangibles than the guys I'd guess you want to put there- and I don't think he's far behind offensively those guys either, maybe ahead. I'm open to proper debate.

Tretiak has no place for me on an all-time team. Do not at all think he's arguable over those 3.

 

[Boxscore]

Booby Hull-Wayne Gretzky-Gordie Howe
Ted Lindsay-Mario Lemieux-Maurice Richard
Frank Nighbor-Bobby Clarke-Jari Kurri
Dickie Moore-Stan Mikita-Bill Cook

Bobby Orr-Eddie Shore
Doug Harvey-Raymond Bourque
Niklas Lidstrom-Denis Potvin

Jacques Plante
Patrick Roy
Dominik Hasek

Good team. Only main problems I have are:

No Messier

No Gainey

No Brodeur

Everything else I can see clearly. You could easily bump Clarke down to the 4th line, like I did, and put Messier on the 3rd. Same with Gainey. Talk about intangibles, Messier and Gianey bring more to the table than most in the history of the game. You MUST find a way to get them on the team.

Oh, and Brodeur. What does this guy need to do in order to get a little love in these parts?! HAS to be in the top 3.

Edit: Also, in a 4th line LW role, how can Tikkanen get no consideration? The guy is a champion, was putting up 30g/70pts/100pims in his prime, while checking, being an irritant and skating like the wind. He was the ULTIMATE 4th line LWer. Dickie Moore was a superstar. He is way too glamorious to take on 4th line duty IMO.

 

[hockeymaneeak*]

I focused on LW's that actually bring the intangibles suited ofr a bottom-6 role on an all-time team (not a huge fan of pure scoring from a bottom-6 line). Khlarmov does not bring a ton in intangibles are far as I know.

I'm not sure if you know who Frank Nighbor is, but he's one of the best two-way players ever. His defensive skills were said to have stopped powerful teams cold- and he was a great offensive player as well, leading in scoring at least once I think, numerous other top-5's and tens. A top-40 or 50 player ever.

Moore brings good intangibles as well, although I'm more open to switching him out for the right guy- but they'd have to bring intangibles, and good offense too.

Bill Cook is a fantastic offensive powerforward who works well in a fourth line RW. Brings more intangibles than the guys I'd guess you want to put there- and I don't think he's far behind offensively those guys either, maybe ahead. I'm open to proper debate.

Tretiak has no place for me on an all-time team. Do not at all think he's arguable over those 3.

Just from Stan Mikita on the 4th Line and Jari Kurri on the 3rd I thought you were having a sheer firepower team like my original, my mistake.

I'm seeing you favor the Old-Timers quite a bit, that's fine too I just don't.

I'll have Charlie Conacher over Bill Cook, Conacher gave everything Cook did, except more.

We disagree on Tretiak and we'll leave it at that.

 

[Leafs Forever]

Good team. Only main problems I have are:

No Messier

No Gainey

No Brodeur

Everything else I can see clearly. You could easily bump Clarke down to the 4th line, like I did, and put Messier on the 3rd. Same with Gainey. Talk about intangibles, Messier and Gianey bring more to the table than most in the history of the game. You MUST find a way to get them on the team.

Oh, and Brodeur. What does this guy need to do in order to get a little love in these parts?! HAS to be in the top 3.

Messier is overrated to me, by the casual fan. He isn't nearly as good defensively as Clarke, nor regular season offensively, don't think he was tougher. Clarke has better intangibles than Messier.

Gainey is all intangibles, and isn't clear cut better than Nighbor defensively, while Nighbor blows him out of the water offensively (same with Moore for that matter). I like intangibles, but I also like all-around ability.

No he doesn't- http://leafscentral.org/clearing-the-smoke-martin-brodeur/. Contrary to popular belief, he has not yet done enough to distinguish himself amongst the big-7 or 8.

Just from Stan Mikita on the 4th Line and Jari Kurri on the 3rd I thought you were having a sheer firepower team like my original, my mistake.

I'm seeing you favor the Old-Timers quite a bit, that's fine too I just don't.

I'll have Charlie Conacher over Bill Cook, Conacher gave everything Cook did, except more.

We disagree on Tretiak and we'll leave it at that.

Mikita and Kurri bring some great intangibles too. I suppose it's really all-around ability like out of a bottom-6.

I wouldn't call it favouring old timers; I think the players on that team cover all era's except the very most modern.

That's certainly debtable- although I'm not confident Conacher brought more intangibles. Conacher probably has a better peak, but Cook has quite ab it more longevity, which I think more than equals that.

 

[lextune]

Bobby Hull-Wayne Gretzky-Gordie Howe
Ted Lindsay-Mario Lemieux-Maurice Richard
Valeri Kharlamov-Jean Beliveau-Guy Lafleur
Frank Mahovlich-Stan Mikita-Jaromir Jagr
Howie Morenz

Bobby Orr-Doug Harvey
Eddie Shore-Ray Bourque
Denis Potvin-Nick Lidstrom
Red Kelly

Dominik Hasek
Jacques Plante
Patrick Roy

^This.

 

[hockeymaneeak*]

Messier is overrated to me, by the casual fan. He isn't nearly as good defensively as Clarke, nor regular season offensively, don't think he was tougher. Clarke has better intangibles than Messier.

Gainey is all intangibles, and isn't clear cut better than Nighbor defensively, while Nighbor blows him out of the water offensively (same with Moore for that matter). I like intangibles, but I also like all-around ability.

No he doesn't- http://leafscentral.org/clearing-the-smoke-martin-brodeur/. Contrary to popular belief, he has not yet done enough to distinguish himself amongst the big-7 or 8.



Mikita and Kurri bring some great intangibles too. I suppose it's really all-around ability like out of a bottom-6.

I wouldn't call it favouring old timers; I think the players on that team cover all era's except the very most modern.

That's certainly debtable- although I'm not confident Conacher brought more intangibles. Conacher probably has a better peak, but Cook has quite ab it more longevity, which I think more than equals that.

I basically found the best "Power Forward" I could that could serve a gritty role. Conacher fit there. He had an awful finish to a good career, which really de-values him.

 

[Boxscore]

^This.

No way. Jagr on a 4th line in a checking role? Frank Mahovlich?? The Big M put up numbers, but he was often lethargic and floated way too much to be considered one out of 12 forwards to make an all-time team. Especially playing on the 4th line. It takes a special mind-set to check your ego at the door and do grunt work. Jagr and Mahovlich are far from that type of player. Just MO.

 

[hockeymaneeak*]

My official team, built like a cup contender.

Line 1
Kharlamov/Hull - Gretzky - Howe
Hull and Kharlamov are interchangeable, though I tend to think Kharlamov would work better with Gretzky.
Gretzky and Howe speak for themselves.

Line 2
Hull/Kharlamov - Lemieux - Richard
Again with Kharlamov/Hull.
Can't find anybody besides Lemieux and Richard so..

Line 3
Lindsay - Gainey - Carbonneau
Kinda small, but I'll sacrifice size for these guys..Carbonneau always hovered around 20 goals, Lindsay had even more, Gainey even had 20 a few times.
All grit, two Selke winners and Lindsay.

Line 4
Probert - Clarke - Nels Stewart
Probert with the fight..
Clarke with the O.
See reference for Stewart.

D1
Orr - Bourque
Bourque paired with Orr because Bourque offered virtually no defense..
D2
Shore - Harvey
Shore and Harvey would do very well together.
D3
Lidstrom - Potvin

Goal
Starter - Roy
Backup - Brodeur
3rd - Tretiak

 

[MXD]

Mine? Okay, slightly different.

Hull - Gretzky - Howe
Lindsay - Lemieux - Richard
Kharlamov - Beliveau - Lafleur
Moore - Morenz - Cook

Alternate bottom 6

Moore - Beliveau - Lafleur
Mahovlich - Mikita - Cook


Rationale

- The best player dictates his linemates.
- In each case, the best player is the center.
- Hull Gretz Howe is a match made in heaven.
- As is Lindsay - Lemieux - Richard

Beliveau is the 3rd best C. Two setups --

- Kharlamov - Beliveau - Lafleur keys on Beliveau's playmaking and two way play.
- Moore - Beliveau - Lafleur adds some spunk, two-way play, board play, toughness, clutch performance. While losing some speed, and eventually goalscoring. This said, Beliveau can score goals, so that setup is, IMO, better.

The problem is...

Moore - Morenz - Cook
just seems a better fit for a 4th line better than

Mahovlich - Mikita - Cook, so...

 

[lextune]

No way. Jagr on a 4th line in a checking role? Frank Mahovlich?? The Big M put up numbers, but he was often lethargic and floated way too much to be considered one out of 12 forwards to make an all-time team. Especially playing on the 4th line. It takes a special mind-set to check your ego at the door and do grunt work. Jagr and Mahovlich are far from that type of player. Just MO.

Who said they were in a checking role?

Who would they be facing? lol....it's basically four "1st lines", if you really want to put that type of label on it.

 

[Rzeznik]

No way. Jagr on a 4th line in a checking role? Frank Mahovlich?? The Big M put up numbers, but he was often lethargic and floated way too much to be considered one out of 12 forwards to make an all-time team. Especially playing on the 4th line. It takes a special mind-set to check your ego at the door and do grunt work. Jagr and Mahovlich are far from that type of player. Just MO.

Just to clarify, my team was not technically built as a team, per se. Basically my lists of the best 4 at their positions.

If you want a "team", my forwards would look more like this:

Bobby Hull-Wayne Gretzky-Gordie Howe
Valeri Kharlamov-Mario Lemieux-Maurice Richard
Ted Lindsay-Stan Mikita-Bill Cook
Frank Nighbor-Bobby Clarke-Jari Kurri

 

[AleksandarN]

Yes, the greatest players to ever play.

In their prime of course.

My Roster

Forwards:
C1 - Wayne Gretzky
LW1 - Valeri Kharlamov
RW1 - Gordie Howe

C2 - Mario Lemieux
LW2 - Anatoli Firsov/Bobby Hull
RW2 - Maurice Richard

C3 - Jean Beliveau
LW3 - Bobby Hull/Anatoli Firsov
RW3 - Sergei Makarov

C4 - Joe Sakic
LW4 - Luc Robataille
RW4 - Guy Lafleur

Defensive Pairings

D1 - Bobby Orr + Viacheslav Fetisov
D2 - Doug Harvey + Nicklas Lidstrom
D3 - Ray Bourque + Borje Salming

Goaltenders

Starter - Vladislav Tretiak
Backup - Martin Brodeur
3rd Goalie - Patrick Roy

Coaches:
Head Coach - Scotty Bowman
Asst. - Viktor Tikhonov
Asst. - Toe Blake

I think the biggest problem people with find with this list is the high number of Soviet players, but the Soviet National team regularly defeated NHL squads and All-Star teams , and never receives the credit they deserve.

P.S. Ok, I seriously tried to come up with someone better than Sakic but I just couldn't do it.

Honourable Mentions
CHM - Frank Mahovlich
LWHM - Stan Mikita
RWHM - Jaromir Jagr
DHM - Eddie Shore
DHM - Red Kelly
GHM - Dominik Hasek

I would pick eric lindros over Sakic any day of the week. If we are talking about prime.

 

[tony d]

Hull-Gretzky-Howe
Bucyk-Lemieux-Richard
Esposito-Beliveau-Lafluer
Robitaille-Mikita-Jagr

Orr-Harvey
Lidstrom-Shore
Potvin-Bourque

Roy
Brodeur

 

[DaveG]

Bobby Hull - Wayne Gretzky - Gordie Howe
Valeri Kharlamov - Mario Lemieux - Maurice Richard
Frank Mahovlich - Jean Beliveau - Guy LaFleur
Bob Gainey - Bobby Clarke - Bryan Trottier
extra: Howie Morenz

Bobby Orr - Ray Bourque
Doug Harvey - Nik Lidstrom
Denis Potvin - Eddie Shore
extra: Red Kelly

Dominik Hasek
Jacques Plante
Vladislav Tretiak