GDT: All things free agent frenzy

[hockeyarena]

I think you’re underestimating how good Lowry and Copp were in 2017-18. They were at 59.6 cf%, 58.6 gf% and 63.7 xGf% in over 400 mins together.

They were even better with Tanev 67 gf% in 300+ mins.

ya that line was mental because they played with an energy we havent seen in years.

 

[DRW204]

I think you’re underestimating how good Lowry and Copp were in 2017-18. They were at 59.6 cf%, 58.6 gf% and 63.7 xGf% in over 400 mins together.

They were even better with Tanev 67 gf% in 300+ mins.

Yes they were good that year. Also comparing 1000mins vs 400

What has Lowry and Copp duo done since? 17-18 was 4-5 years ago now, id say once in 5 years is "hardly ever" lol.

 

[voyageur]

Far superior. We've hardly ever iced as productive of players as TBL did with gourde or coleman on our third line. That along with handedly outshoot/chancing/scoring the opposition. Some were categorizing them as their top line during the PO's, and that's on a team with the likes of Stamkos, kucherov, point, cirelli etc. It'd be nice to have that. The gourde-coleman duo was 60% GF (41:28), 55% cf and 55% xgf in 1000+ 5v5 mins (reg season + PO's combined) from '19-'21.

You want forwards with high shooting %s get yourself 3 star LD men who get the puck moving the other way. Nothing wrong with Lowry, and the grind game. You can grind out wins in the NHL. I think if you are comparing stats when we had Buff, Trouba, Myers and a steady push that the numbers aren't that far off.

 

[DRW204]

You want forwards with high shooting %s get yourself 3 star LD men who get the puck moving the other way. Nothing wrong with Lowry, and the grind game. You can grind out wins in the NHL. I think if you are comparing stats when we had Buff, Trouba, Myers and a steady push that the numbers aren't that far off.

We do have fwds with good to great sh%. Nothing wrong with a grind game if it's generating offense or goals for. If not, then save it for the 4th lines getting minimal ice. Fact is if Lowry and his line isn't producing like they are in 17-18 we aren't going to be a cup Contender. We've had buff and trouba for many years, myers for a few too, and that season was 1 of 2 he's had with respectable 3c production. Desperately need an upgrade in personnel on the third line to compete with the upper echelon of teams.

 

[voyageur]

We do have fwds with good to great sh%. Nothing wrong with a grind game from 4th lines getting minimal ice. Fact is if Lowry and his line isn't producing like they are in 17-18 we aren't going to be a cup Contender. We've had buff and trouba for many years, myers for a few too, and that season was 1 of 2 he's had with respectable 3c production. Desperately need an upgrade in personnel on the third line to compete with the upper echelon of teams.

The guy shut down Mc David for crying out loud. That's pretty good. Need better d, need better wingers. Lowry's worst years came with wingers like Gabriel Bourque and Austen Poganski, those aren't the kind of guys you win with. Get some players up there, and Lowry is still a beast. Hardest place to get shots from is starting in your own end, and Lowry does that the most, so it's a job that isn't easy. Easiest place to get shots from is the other end of the ice, and when the Jets were good, really good, they could pin teams there. That's where 4 line hockey, and fresh players are important, in my opinion.

 

[DRW204]

The guy shut down Mc David for crying out loud. That's pretty good. Need better d, need better wingers. Lowry's worst years came with wingers like Gabriel Bourque and Austen Poganski, those aren't the kind of guys you win with. Get some players up there, and Lowry is still a beast. Hardest place to get shots from is starting in your own end, and Lowry does that the most, so it's a job that isn't easy. Easiest place to get shots from is the other end of the ice, and when the Jets were good, really good, they could pin teams there. That's where 4 line hockey, and fresh players are important, in my opinion.

You are highly overstating the job our fwds and d group did that series, and underselling Helle.

Helle had 0.950+ SV% on 160 shots in 4+ games (some OT in there too) McDavid+Drai accounted for 25% of the SOG volume, while scoring 65% in xGF (measure of shot-quality), and high-danger chances were scored 60-40 for the oilers. Helle saved our can that series.

Getting handedly outshot, notably in the high danger areas this is not a shutdown job from our skaters. They got their opportunities at will, as they usually do. We just had a goalie playing at a God-like level.

I Think I've been pretty consistent saying we need better personnel on our third line which includes c and wingers, or trying to say Lowry and his line as much as possible. I do attribute most of being able to drive offense from the C who is also getting paid 3.5m. I still think most recent cup winners have 2-3 Cs that are superior than Lowry. Until we get that sort of depth, or he rewind the clock to 2017 I'm afraid we won't be vying for the cup imo.

 

[Weezeric]

You are highly overstating the job our fwds and d group did that series, and underselling Helle.

Helle had 0.950+ SV% on 160 shots in 4+ games (some OT in there too) McDavid+Drai accounted for 25% of the SOG volume, while scoring 65% in xGF (measure of shot-quality), and high-danger chances were scored 60-40 for the oilers. Helle saved our can that series.

Getting handedly outshot, notably in the high danger areas this is not a shutdown job from our skaters. They got their opportunities at will, as they usually do. We just had a goalie playing at a God-like level.

I Think I've been pretty consistent saying we need better personnel on our third line which includes c and wingers, or trying to say Lowry and his line as much as possible. I do attribute most of being able to drive offense from the C who is also getting paid 3.5m. I still think most recent cup winners have 2-3 Cs that are superior than Lowry. Until we get that sort of depth, or he rewind the clock to 2017 I'm afraid we won't be vying for the cup imo.

Percentages is a poor way of looking at how good a team is doing at shutting down a high powered offence.

In the four games that McDavid played the Jets he was on ice for 3.08 xG/60. Last playoff he was at 4.38 xG/60, almost 50% higher.

 

[DRW204]

Percentages is a poor way of looking at how good a team is doing at shutting down a high powered offence.

In the four games that McDavid played the Jets he was on ice for 3.08 xG/60. Last playoff he was at 4.38 xG/60, almost 50% higher.

His on ice on ice xgf/60 was basically unchanged from the regular season in 2021 to the PO's. So essentially he was getting opportunities at the same rate, but would anyone say he was getting shut down that year?

Difference was the goaltending as evidenced by the difference of xgf vs gf. For a player like McDavid, or Draisaitl who commonly outscore what is expected I'd say Helle was saving our ass rather than our team shutting them down. Like I said, their rate of chances were basically the same RS vs PO's. Look at the team totals as well. Natural stat trick scores us -7 in xga vs GA at all strengths. In a 4 game series with 3 OT games I'd say that significant.

Just because he got opportunities at an even higher rate the following PO's I don't think necessarily meanz we shut him down really as a fwd+d group. He could've just played at a even higher level lol.

Nevertheless I don't think many had a problem with Lowry's overall play in the Canadian Division year. I think if he could play with that or 17-18 more consistently we'd be hearing less of our bottom 6 woes.

 

[voyageur]

You are highly overstating the job our fwds and d group did that series, and underselling Helle.

Helle had 0.950+ SV% on 160 shots in 4+ games (some OT in there too) McDavid+Drai accounted for 25% of the SOG volume, while scoring 65% in xGF (measure of shot-quality), and high-danger chances were scored 60-40 for the oilers. Helle saved our can that series.

Getting handedly outshot, notably in the high danger areas this is not a shutdown job from our skaters. They got their opportunities at will, as they usually do. We just had a goalie playing at a God-like level.

I Think I've been pretty consistent saying we need better personnel on our third line which includes c and wingers, or trying to say Lowry and his line as much as possible. I do attribute most of being able to drive offense from the C who is also getting paid 3.5m. I still think most recent cup winners have 2-3 Cs that are superior than Lowry. Until we get that sort of depth, or he rewind the clock to 2017 I'm afraid we won't be vying for the cup imo.

If you remember the series, it was Scheifele who was matched up against Mc David games 1 and 2 since it was on the road. Games 3 and 4 were Adam Lowry who had 2 assists vs. 1 goal for Mc David, hard to say he was owned. Plus the eternal argument: start from the o-zone compile more shots. Start from the d-zone it's a harder road to get a shot, that's basic math/logic/whatever principle you need in statistical analysis. I've had enough Adam Lowry arguments for a lifetime on here. I think it is known I am a fan. I just hope he has the wingers this year. Appleton helps a lot. But a LW who can play with the best, which is a role Adam Lowry will take on, and grind them, I'm not sure that player is here at the moment. I am optimistic about Barron though I could see him being part of a real hard nosed checking line. Which can matchup against Foligno-ErikssonEk-Greenway, and Jeannot-Sissons-Trenin, or those top lines. It would be nice if that push came from Gustafsson too, so that the top 6 gets the gravy shifts.
'

 

[DRW204]

If you remember the series, it was Scheifele who was matched up against Mc David games 1 and 2 since it was on the road. Games 3 and 4 were Adam Lowry who had 2 assists vs. 1 goal for Mc David, hard to say he was owned. Plus the eternal argument: start from the o-zone compile more shots. Start from the d-zone it's a harder road to get a shot, that's basic math/logic/whatever principle you need in statistical analysis. I've had enough Adam Lowry arguments for a lifetime on here. I think it is known I am a fan. I just hope he has the wingers this year. Appleton helps a lot. But a LW who can play with the best, which is a role Adam Lowry will take on, and grind them, I'm not sure that player is here at the moment. I am optimistic about Barron though I could see him being part of a real hard nosed checking line. Which can matchup against Foligno-ErikssonEk-Greenway, and Jeannot-Sissons-Trenin, or those top lines. It would be nice if that push came from Gustafsson too, so that the top 6 gets the gravy shifts.
'

i do like Lowry, i just think he's being overplayed as a 3C. As a 3C I don't think he drives offense at a good/consistent rate to rely on game-to-game (or year-to-year). & i think he's often a drawback for our Wingers offense. unless he is playing and producing, or driving line's results similar to 17-18 or the CDN Div. year (this is 2/8 of his nhl seasons) he's better suited as a 4C imo. those 2 years id say he produced at a respectable average 3C clip & think overall we're fine with him there. .

Grinding and all is fine and dandy, but if it's not resulting in GF or heavily lessening GA, perhaps it's time to either get players that can play that style and consistently produce, or switch the style up. i don't think there was a cup contender last year, or recent cup winner that has a 3C or third line as weak as ours.

this past year he was not being matched up as heavily to top lines as years passed. so you're left a 3rd line that was commonly getting out-scored on by other bottom-6 lines (on average). not all of it is on him of course, but as a C, and a vet of 500+ games making 3.5m i think the expectations and responsibilities for him are a bit higher.

you keep mentioning appleton, they did have a solid time together in '21 overall. this year they really weren't world-beaters as bottom-6ers. & really w/ the CDN div. year, they really only flourished with Perreault next to them.

 

[Flair Hay]

i do like Lowry, i just think he's being overplayed as a 3C. As a 3C I don't think he drives offense at a good/consistent rate to rely on game-to-game (or year-to-year). & i think he's often a drawback for our Wingers offense. unless he is playing and producing, or driving line's results similar to 17-18 or the CDN Div. year (this is 2/8 of his nhl seasons) he's better suited as a 4C imo. those 2 years id say he produced at a respectable average 3C clip & think overall we're fine with him there. .

Grinding and all is fine and dandy, but if it's not resulting in GF or heavily lessening GA, perhaps it's time to either get players that can play that style and consistently produce, or switch the style up. i don't think there was a cup contender last year, or recent cup winner that has a 3C or third line as weak as ours.

this past year he was not being matched up as heavily to top lines as years passed. so you're left a 3rd line that was commonly getting out-scored on by other bottom-6 lines (on average). not all of it is on him of course, but as a C, and a vet of 500+ games making 3.5m i think the expectations and responsibilities for him are a bit higher.

you keep mentioning appleton, they did have a solid time together in '21 overall. this year they really weren't world-beaters as bottom-6ers. & really w/ the CDN div. year, they really only flourished with Perreault next to them.

Wouldnt hate it one bit if we could get Perreault back here for one more year at under a million bucks

 

[blueandgoldguy]

I wouldn't call it a win for the Flames because they secured Huberdeau long term. Tkachuk's contract runs from ages 24 - 32. Huberdeau's contract 10.5 AAV contract doesn't even start until he is 30 years old and runs until he is 38.

I feel reasonably confident Tkachuk will live up to most of the entirety of his contract. I thin Huberdeau may only be worth for first couple years of that contract and will be grossly overpaid for the majority of it. Remember we are talking about a pretty one-dimensional player here.

 

[lomiller1]

I wouldn't call it a win for the Flames because they secured Huberdeau long term. Tkachuk's contract runs from ages 24 - 32. Huberdeau's contract 10.5 AAV contract doesn't even start until he is 30 years old and runs until he is 38.

I feel reasonably confident Tkachuk will live up to most of the entirety of his contract. I thin Huberdeau may only be worth for first couple years of that contract and will be grossly overpaid for the majority of it. Remember we are talking about a pretty one-dimensional player here.

I much prefer the Florida approach. I'm a solid advocate of letting most of the older UFA's walk, or better yet trading them in the last year or two of their contract for someone younger. There will be exceptions, mainly #1C or #1D if you think they can still go, but building around younger cheaper players is much better value.

 

[Guffman]

Well I appreciate the inputs of Jets fans that actually know the ins and outs of the needs/wants of the Jets as opposed to the trolls and haters on the main boards which shit on any proposal for the lols, which is why i proposed it here.

The thing is the Oilers don’t really have that big of a cap problem. Holland stated on record he’s fine with the roster we have and fine running a 21/22 roster in these flat cap years. Its why he hasn’t needed to ship off Pool at a loss even those he’s been inconsistent for us and frankly a bit expensive now.

I offered Foegele not just for cap flex but I think it’s a win-win. Jets seem to want to upgrade their bottom 6 but haven’t had luck in free agency, Jets also seem to have a log jam at LHD with Heinola and Samberg. Yes, you’d help us with our cap a bit but it’s not like you aren’t getting something in return. Unless you don’t like Foegele at all, i like him he has above average NHL size and speed and is one of the better bottom 6 guys we’ve had in the last 5 years.

Jets are sitting on $6M of cap space. I do think they want to bring in another middle six winger and they could certainly do better than Foegele. Still some players in this slow moving market that are available. Better yet, when teams are feeling more pressure to create cap flexibility going into the season, maybe a quality player can be acquired for less cost than expected.

As for the defence, Stanley and Kovacevic are likely eating popcorn on the big club and Heinola starts in the AHL. Jets could go with that and maybe that’s the way this goes down since the team is committed to a playoff push.

I personally still would like to hold onto Stanley and see if this monster can take another step. He’s fine as a 7 and getting some games in. I don’t want to give up on him yet and not for a piece like Foegele when we can afford better.

Edit: What about Pool Party for Stanley and a 3rd (maybe a 2nd, though curious if others think that is too much)

 

[voyageur]

i do like Lowry, i just think he's being overplayed as a 3C. As a 3C I don't think he drives offense at a good/consistent rate to rely on game-to-game (or year-to-year). & i think he's often a drawback for our Wingers offense. unless he is playing and producing, or driving line's results similar to 17-18 or the CDN Div. year (this is 2/8 of his nhl seasons) he's better suited as a 4C imo. those 2 years id say he produced at a respectable average 3C clip & think overall we're fine with him there. .

Grinding and all is fine and dandy, but if it's not resulting in GF or heavily lessening GA, perhaps it's time to either get players that can play that style and consistently produce, or switch the style up. i don't think there was a cup contender last year, or recent cup winner that has a 3C or third line as weak as ours.

this past year he was not being matched up as heavily to top lines as years passed. so you're left a 3rd line that was commonly getting out-scored on by other bottom-6 lines (on average). not all of it is on him of course, but as a C, and a vet of 500+ games making 3.5m i think the expectations and responsibilities for him are a bit higher.

you keep mentioning appleton, they did have a solid time together in '21 overall. this year they really weren't world-beaters as bottom-6ers. & really w/ the CDN div. year, they really only flourished with Perreault next to them.

You see we have a completely different perspective. If your checking line can produce results like the did in early 21-22 where Lowry was giving up less that 1.5 goals per 60, and scoring at the same rate, and doing so against top lines at least half the time, then that should reverberate to your scoring lines taking advantage of weaker matchups (2nd and 3rd pairing d-men for instance), like the Oilers series where the top 2 lines won it for us, while Lowry outscored Mc David narrowly.

It's a proven working strategem, but if your top lines can't capitalize on those weaker matchups, with more o-zone time, then the fault lies with them. But that's not how it gets broken down.

To call Lowry's line weak is disingenous. The guy consistently works the puck from the defensive end to the offensive end. I mean you could make a highlight reel for every single player on this team to watch, and learn from, on how to play defensive zone hockey, by watching Adam Lowry. When you get weaker wingers, AHL calibre, well that affects the effectiveness, especially when you had a guy like Poganski for 10 games chasing pucks instead of retrieving them. Then came an inexperienced Reichel who didn't make as many plays as you'd like from that spot. Include Vesalainen and Svetchnikov, who wasn't so great in the defensive end, but pretty good starting 30 feet from the goalie. Get back to the formula that works, a solid forecheck (Tanev type), a guy who can retrieve pucks in neutral zone back pressure (Copp, Appleton), and Lowry winning more than his fair share of 50/50 pucks, and you have the makings of a good checking line. You can win with good checking lines in the NHL, this 3 scoring line jargon that everyone is spouting is only good if you have a good defensive centre, who is good on defensive zone draws. Lowry has never had Phil Kessel types, or Killorn, or Versteegs on his wing. Copp finally broke through but mostly because he played with more skilled players, like Stats and Ehlers. And he got PP time, which if you gave to Lowry, might result in a 35-40 player in a strong year. Just look at the output the guy had for Team Canada, with no hacks, and tell me he is the problem with this team. I refuse to believe that logic, based on everything I see.

 

[TheNumber4]

Jets are sitting on $6M of cap space. I do think they want to bring in another middle six winger and they could certainly do better than Foegele. Still some players in this slow moving market that are available. Better yet, when teams are feeling more pressure to create cap flexibility going into the season, maybe a quality player can be acquired for less cost than expected.

As for the defence, Stanley and Kovacevic are likely eating popcorn on the big club and Heinola starts in the AHL. Jets could go with that and maybe that’s the way this goes down since the team is committed to a playoff push.

I personally still would like to hold onto Stanley and see if this monster can take another step. He’s fine as a 7 and getting some games in. I don’t want to give up on him yet and not for a piece like Foegele when we can afford better.

Edit: What about Pool Party for Stanley and a 3rd (maybe a 2nd, though curious if others think that is too much)

All good points and understandable. If something shakes loose as the offseason continues on that makes sense, it would be better to get someone Foegele-like for free rather than trade for him. Guess we'll have to see what shakes loose. Oilers are also looking for something to shake loose but in the very cheap range like 1M.

Stanley+ for Puljujaarvi I would have considered a month or two ago when it was rumored Jesse wanted more opportunity. But since he's been signed it looks like Holland and Jesse came to an agreement and he'll be staying. Likely he'll get the same look this year as he did last year where he starts in the Top 6 next to Connor. I know the Jets are more so looking for a Middle 6 winger that is more Top 6 than Bottom 6, so Jesse fits the bill better than Foegele. If Jesse can't cement himself into our Top 6 I could see it happening next off-season, but not realistic when our GM has committed to trying it for another year.

 

[Jet]

Jets are sitting on $6M of cap space. I do think they want to bring in another middle six winger and they could certainly do better than Foegele. Still some players in this slow moving market that are available. Better yet, when teams are feeling more pressure to create cap flexibility going into the season, maybe a quality player can be acquired for less cost than expected.

As for the defence, Stanley and Kovacevic are likely eating popcorn on the big club and Heinola starts in the AHL. Jets could go with that and maybe that’s the way this goes down since the team is committed to a playoff push.

I personally still would like to hold onto Stanley and see if this monster can take another step. He’s fine as a 7 and getting some games in. I don’t want to give up on him yet and not for a piece like Foegele when we can afford better.

Edit: What about Pool Party for Stanley and a 3rd (maybe a 2nd, though curious if others think that is too much)

Yeah I really think that Stanley is a slow grower that could end up being an impact guy (I won't use the Chara comparison again). Some guys, especially big guys have a slower path to fitting in with the NHL game and if that's the case with Stanley he could be a really solid member of our d corps. He struggled at times last year but I'm interested to see how he looks at camp.

What I don't want is him blocking either Samberg or Heinola. If one of them outperforms him in TC they should snag the roster spot with him as the press box guy. I'm sure they will all get their reps with injuries.

 

[DRW204]

You see we have a completely different perspective. If your checking line can produce results like the did in early 21-22 where Lowry was giving up less that 1.5 goals per 60, and scoring at the same rate, and doing so against top lines at least half the time, then that should reverberate to your scoring lines taking advantage of weaker matchups (2nd and 3rd pairing d-men for instance), like the Oilers series where the top 2 lines won it for us, while Lowry outscored Mc David narrowly.

It's a proven working strategem, but if your top lines can't capitalize on those weaker matchups, with more o-zone time, then the fault lies with them. But that's not how it gets broken down.

To call Lowry's line weak is disingenous. The guy consistently works the puck from the defensive end to the offensive end. I mean you could make a highlight reel for every single player on this team to watch, and learn from, on how to play defensive zone hockey, by watching Adam Lowry. When you get weaker wingers, AHL calibre, well that affects the effectiveness, especially when you had a guy like Poganski for 10 games chasing pucks instead of retrieving them. Then came an inexperienced Reichel who didn't make as many plays as you'd like from that spot. Include Vesalainen and Svetchnikov, who wasn't so great in the defensive end, but pretty good starting 30 feet from the goalie. Get back to the formula that works, a solid forecheck (Tanev type), a guy who can retrieve pucks in neutral zone back pressure (Copp, Appleton), and Lowry winning more than his fair share of 50/50 pucks, and you have the makings of a good checking line. You can win with good checking lines in the NHL, this 3 scoring line jargon that everyone is spouting is only good if you have a good defensive centre, who is good on defensive zone draws. Lowry has never had Phil Kessel types, or Killorn, or Versteegs on his wing. Copp finally broke through but mostly because he played with more skilled players, like Stats and Ehlers. And he got PP time, which if you gave to Lowry, might result in a 35-40 player in a strong year. Just look at the output the guy had for Team Canada, with no hacks, and tell me he is the problem with this team. I refuse to believe that logic, based on everything I see.

yes if they/he can produce like the CDN Div year or 17-18 those are viable 3rd lines. that's 2 years out of his pro career of 8 seasons. i think ill have to say it for 30th time for you to understand... those 2 years we're fine with him. So YES, if they produce results like that we're fine. Huge if.

anyway you say to call his line weak is disingenuous, then proceed give me a bunch of reasons how and why they are weak at producing, & then examples of stronger 3rd lines or players. Our 3rd has weak production compared to recent cup winners. you can take a gander at PIT, STL, TBL, WSH, etc 3rd lines. The production is night and day vs what we often get from our 3rd

at the end of the day, our best years is when we had a 3rd line that could actually produce at a respectable level. we need better players on there overall (mentioned before). if lowry cannot elevate the wingers than find some that elevate the line as a whole. this is not strictly on Lowry of course, this falls on Chevy as well.

no one is arguing about grind or forechecking effectively for f*** sakes. coleman-gourde-goodrow were a buzzsaw in terms of that style of play. difference is they can ACTUALLY SCORE. if our 3rd line can do that then there's no problem as seen in 17-18. if they want to grind the game away and not produce that's better served as your 4th.

 

[voyageur]

yes if they/he can produce like the CDN Div year or 17-18 those are viable 3rd lines. that's 2 years out of his pro career of 8 seasons. i think ill have to say it for 30th time for you to understand... those 2 years we're fine with him. So YES, if they produce results like that we're fine. Huge if.

anyway you say to call his line weak is disingenuous, then proceed give me a bunch of reasons how and why they are weak at producing, & then examples of stronger 3rd lines or players. Our 3rd has weak production compared to recent cup winners. you can take a gander at PIT, STL, TBL, WSH, etc 3rd lines. The production is night and day vs what we often get from our 3rd

at the end of the day, our best years is when we had a 3rd line that could actually produce at a respectable level. we need better players on there overall (mentioned before). if lowry cannot elevate the wingers than find some that elevate the line as a whole. this is not strictly on Lowry of course, this falls on Chevy as well.

no one is arguing about grind or forechecking effectively for f*** sakes. coleman-gourde-goodrow were a buzzsaw in terms of that style of play. difference is they can ACTUALLY SCORE. if our 3rd line can do that then there's no problem as seen in 17-18. if they want to grind the game away and not produce that's better served as your 4th.

We're going to have to disagree here. We have fundamental differences in opinion, that are not going to be reconciled. I think a strong checking line helps the top six score more. By shutting down the best. It's nice to compare the TB model. Coleman got top 6 money and a role out of the Flames. Goodrow got a big contract, and Gourde is gone and less effective on a new team. And again in the circular argument, when you have defense who can control possession which Tampa did, in each of their LD, which we did in each of our RD, you get results offensively. There's a big difference from having Coleman, Goodrow, Hagelin, Kessel, Burakovsky as your 3rd line wingers then there is between Poganski, Reichel, Vesalainen, Harkins and Svetchnikov. It also helps when your top 6 centres are 2 way centres that can play in any role. Lowry has been a good counterbalance to Scheifele throughout his career. Now with Little or Stastny you had 2 way centres, with Dubois, who had less goals per 60 than Lowry last year, there is something to be desired, which is further exemplified by poor playoff performances comparatively. I'm really happy with Lowry and Appleton as the 3rd line rocks to start the year. I think you'll get leadership and results from these guys, but if injury strikes, the depth will be tested. And there isn't the Cap space to improve significantly, maybe one player...

 

[GumbyCan2]

Y

Top 30 UFAs 2022 — The Fourth Period
only free agent I have seen us linked to is frank vatrano

Uck. Luckily he signed elsewhere.

 

[GumbyCan2]

We're going to have to disagree here. We have fundamental differences in opinion, that are not going to be reconciled. I think a strong checking line helps the top six score more. By shutting down the best. It's nice to compare the TB model. Coleman got top 6 money and a role out of the Flames. Goodrow got a big contract, and Gourde is gone and less effective on a new team. And again in the circular argument, when you have defense who can control possession which Tampa did, in each of their LD, which we did in each of our RD, you get results offensively. There's a big difference from having Coleman, Goodrow, Hagelin, Kessel, Burakovsky as your 3rd line wingers then there is between Poganski, Reichel, Vesalainen, Harkins and Svetchnikov. It also helps when your top 6 centres are 2 way centres that can play in any role. Lowry has been a good counterbalance to Scheifele throughout his career. Now with Little or Stastny you had 2 way centres, with Dubois, who had less goals per 60 than Lowry last year, there is something to be desired, which is further exemplified by poor playoff performances comparatively. I'm really happy with Lowry and Appleton as the 3rd line rocks to start the year. I think you'll get leadership and results from these guys, but if injury strikes, the depth will be tested. And there isn't the Cap space to improve significantly, maybe one player...

Suddenly this roster really misses an Andrew Copp, with new coaching and feeling out who plays where, Copper could have proven invaluable. Missed another "potential what if?".

 

[GumbyCan2]

Maybe if they could clobber Chevy's brain into head-shrunk-for-good category and trade darlene nurse for J-Mo straight up, they could be more effective forward heavy and stronger backend heavy minutes defender to puck movement out solud, in J-Mo. As a Jet fan, i do not wish for thus but just juxtaproposing hypernole.

Seems like they are going to try to go forward heavy and try to outscore teams again. I guess we shall see if their defense can hold up.



I'm not sold on their defense either though.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Yes, easy-come-easy-go, as they say. Especially if you run our #1 piper plugger 98% of time most of the season, only to burn him into sleep-walking on the ice during critical end of season playoff spot desparate run time!

I'm sure we can find a cheap back goalie, and he had a better sv% in far less games...

 

[GumbyCan2]

Coaching, deployment, locker-room discord, TN commanding input all contributed to freying this "top-duo". And Copp ultimately seeking more, respectability in his efforts and abilities.

Yes they were good that year. Also comparing 1000mins vs 400

What has Lowry and Copp duo done since? 17-18 was 4-5 years ago now, id say once in 5 years is "hardly ever" lol.

 

[voyageur]

Suddenly this roster really misses an Andrew Copp, with new coaching and feeling out who plays where, Copper could have proven invaluable. Missed another "potential what if?".

Copp was a guy as other posters stated that was top 6 material, but held back by his effectiveness as a checking line player. There was no way he was getting that contract here. And frankly I don't think his numbers would have been as high if he hadn't been traded to the Rangers and gone on a playoff run. You had to know like Trouba his agent was going to get his client the best contract possible, elsewhere, and good for Copp I say, he earned it.

His play in the top 6 here, apart from with Statsny and Ehlers was never overwhelmingly convincing, in my opinion.

Just like Trouba trade, take the replacement, in Barron, and get a 1st round Finnish pick. Bonus is the extra 2nd round pick.

I have high hopes for Barron.

I'm looking forward to the era where Barron, Torgersson and Mc Groarty give the team a new identity, of being more physical and direct to the net.