All Purpose Trade/Roster Building Thread Part X - Offseason 2022

[Stickpucker]

Which is funny. They were highly criticized for their lack of deadline moves for 3-4 years when the team was going good but couldn’t win it all.

Maybe fair criticism since they decided to be buyers after and are being discussed as a dynasty.

Kane + Aho would be sick

Expectation:
Megan fox gif

Reality

Megan Traynor gif

Rod would go Kane Staal Fast.

 

[ndp]

Sn article excerpt:

“The Chicago Sun-Times indicated the New Jersey Devils are "presumed leading contenders" for DeBrincat, and that their No. 2 overall pick could be the key piece coming back. It's certainly a piece the Devils seem open to dealing. Prior to the draft lottery, GM Tom Fitzgerald said he was "open to whatever to help our team improve."

"If that is using a pick like that, wherever it may be, to help bring in a player that we know and feel will help impact the results that we are looking for, absolutely," he added.

That would allow the Hawks to nab one of Shane Wright, Logan Cooley or Juraj Slafkovsky.

The Sun-Times also mentions the Philadelphia Flyers (No. 5 overall), Ottawa Senators (No. 7 overall), NY Islanders (No. 13 overall) and Los Angeles Kings (No. 19 overall) as possible suitors.”

If NJ can get some competent goaltending they're going to leapfrog the Caps and Pens soon imo. Landing a piece like DeBrincat is only going to accelerate their eventual turnaround. And they should have a decent amount of cap space to make adjustments as necessary.

I personally would love to see NJ become relevant again, throw some fuel on that old NYR, NJD rivalry with both teams being competitive, just not quite as competitive at the Canes.

 

[NotOpie]

Took me a while to catch up, so some of the quotes are "legacy":

There's a difference between managing players ice time and coasting while on the ice, though. To me the question is: if you can reduce the cumulative ice time across an 82 game season a bit for certain players, might they have more energy during the playoffs? And I do mean "question"; I have no idea how it might work out in practice.

If we iced a 23 man roster with 2 extra forwards and 1 extra defenseman, you could feasibly rotate guys in such that every forward got about 6 games off and every defenseman got about 12 games off...if my math is right. That could have a positive impact for a lot of reasons.

I think our problems were more about our top players disappearing when we needed them the most in high stakes situations, especially on special teams (per usual), which could be a combination of coaching and poor play by the players.

We also probably obsess over line matching too much. Way too rigid in our approach.

This and this....I think our top players basically tried to do too much, often overthinking things which put more pressure on them. If our lines were a bit more balanced, the need for some of the line matching could go away. I also think it added to some of the lack of "defensive" confidence for the Aho and Trocheck lines.

I'm thinking more in terms of games off, not shaving a couple minutes a night. Would a player playing the equivalent of, say, a 75 game schedule be fresher at the end of the year than a player playing an 82 game schedule? I dunno . . .

Justin Williams said that the playoffs is all about who has more desire to win and who can "break the will" of the other team. Maybe it's that our will is getting broken and it's more mental?

Related to my comments above for both of these ideas:

I think it comes down to what I'd call "sharpness" which is both physical and mental. Reaction time is likely improved, muscle response time is probably improved (although I have no data on this). And some small injuries may heal faster, adding to improved performance. Plus being in the pressbox watching the game unfold shows a lot of real time corrections that can be made in subsequent games.

That "desire" and "breaking of will" is something that we've not been able to muster enough of these last two post-seasons. A lot of that is coaching IMO. But some of that is inherent and a player has to find within himself.

If some team offers him, say, $6M x 5 or something, well , thanks for the 1st and 3rd, not a bad ROI for just $1M.

.....and the 1st, 3rd, and Necas could be used to bring in a Chychrun...although I really don't want to trade Necas. I believe a short-term bridge brings back a Marty on fire, trying to prove that he's not the 21-22 version of himself, but more like the 20-21 version.

 

[AD Skinner]

Rod would go Kane Staal Fast.

I mean but can you imagine what Kane could do with all the room he'd have while those two are pulling everybody to the wall?

 

[Chrispy]

I mean but can you imagine what Kane could do with all the room he'd have while those two are pulling everybody to the wall?

One week into the season:

There are 3 men on Kane, Jordan! Stop pinning the puck on the boards by yourself and skate it out!!

 

[LakeLivin]

Took me a while to catch up, so some of the quotes are "legacy":


If we iced a 23 man roster with 2 extra forwards and 1 extra defenseman, you could feasibly rotate guys in such that every forward got about 6 games off and every defenseman got about 12 games off...if my math is right. That could have a positive impact for a lot of reasons.



This and this....I think our top players basically tried to do too much, often overthinking things which put more pressure on them. If our lines were a bit more balanced, the need for some of the line matching could go away. I also think it added to some of the lack of "defensive" confidence for the Aho and Trocheck lines.



Related to my comments above for both of these ideas:

I think it comes down to what I'd call "sharpness" which is both physical and mental. Reaction time is likely improved, muscle response time is probably improved (although I have no data on this). And some small injuries may heal faster, adding to improved performance. Plus being in the pressbox watching the game unfold shows a lot of real time corrections that can be made in subsequent games.

That "desire" and "breaking of will" is something that we've not been able to muster enough of these last two post-seasons. A lot of that is coaching IMO. But some of that is inherent and a player has to find within himself.

.....and the 1st, 3rd, and Necas could be used to bring in a Chychrun...although I really don't want to trade Necas. I believe a short-term bridge brings back a Marty on fire, trying to prove that he's not the 21-22 version of himself, but more like the 20-21 version.

No way to know for sure how much it would translate, but part of the rationale for my original question comes from the NFL. I've heard players and analysts argue that as they increase the number of regular season games the quality of play decreases towards the end of the season due to cumulative wear and tear from all the hitting (and that's with up to 6 days off between games to recover.) @Boom Boom Apathy, I don't see "fatigue" as I understand it in the setting of marathon training as being as much an issue, so on that it we seem to agree.

 

[Vagrant]

we are at a unique point in our window. the unfortunate part for us is that the last two years were probably our best chance to get it done from a payroll standpoint. especially this past season with TDA on a sweetheart deal and term remaining on trocheck and nino. we're going to get a little worse next season in terms of known commodities, but the contributions of the better known quantities are going to have to be more consistent and significant. Aho was not good to start last season. svech didn't end the season well at least according to memory. we're going to need like 60-70 points from Jarvis to keep our 2nd line competitive if we lose both nino and trocheck. I have sincere optimism that drury is ready to hold down a top 9 spot after this offseason. I said jarvis was making the team last year. drury is going to get that opportunity next season and he's been groomed to perfection. they did everything right even if it felt wrong at the time to send him back down after those games. he went to the ahl and put his hard hat on and made the adjustment in the 2nd half that really confirmed his stock. this run to the calder cup is also doing a world of good for him. maybe try necas down the middle and have him compete with drury in camp to see who can play the center role the way RBA wants it done. the prospect prognosticators not being especially effusive about drury is confusing to me because it's all there for him and his year to year progression has been exceptional.

there's also the idea of pony, gunler, and koivunen. the last of the trio being potentially the most overlooked. he needs another year in the microwave ideally but if there's any of our U20 guys that could make it tough like Jarvis did, that's your horse. sturdy kid, decent size, and has produced against men. robidas could work himself into consideration, but the jump from the q is especially difficult for the number of future firemen and real estate agents they're skating through and he's going to need to prove he can survive the next step.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Related to my comments above for both of these ideas:

I think it comes down to what I'd call "sharpness" which is both physical and mental. Reaction time is likely improved, muscle response time is probably improved (although I have no data on this). And some small injuries may heal faster, adding to improved performance. Plus being in the pressbox watching the game unfold shows a lot of real time corrections that can be made in subsequent games.

1) How is it that the Canes are at a disadvantage (the initial premise of this discussion) when it comes to "sharpness", reaction time, muscle response, healing faster, etc..., Our top forwards and top D play less minutes (ES TOI, ES TOI/ GP, Total TOI, Total TOI/GP) than top forwards from many other teams. Shouldn't playing less minutes (each game and cumulative) give the Canes an advantage here?

2) Here's how many games off the Canes top players got vs. NYR:
Canes: Skjei: 0, Trocheck: 1; Aho: 3; Slavin: 3; Staal/Svech: 4, TT: 5, Nino: 7, DeAngelo: 18.
NYR: Miller: 0, Trouba: 1, Kreider: 1, Zibanejad: 1, Laf: 3, Goodrow: 3, Lindgren: 4, Fox: 4, Panarin: 7.

3) What more do you think a player will learn about the game watching from the press box, vs. the hours and hours of video work the coaches do with them? I would think the video work would be way more beneficial than watching from the press box.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

No way to know for sure how much it would translate, but part of the rationale for my original question comes from the NFL. I've heard players and analysts argue that as they increase the number of regular season games the quality of play decreases towards the end of the season due to cumulative wear and tear from all the hitting (and that's with up to 6 days off between games to recover.) @Boom Boom Apathy, I don't see "fatigue" as I understand it in the setting of marathon training as being as much an issue, so on that it we seem to agree.

I think we've hashed and re-hashed the "fatigue", and discussions about how muscles react, recovery time, etc.. so I'll stay away from that. I have a few comments and these will be my last on this topic as we can respectfully disagree.

EDIT: If this prior comment came across poorly, I didn't mean it that way. I'm not upset or anything like that, just that we have a tendency to beat topics to death on this board (and I acknowledge I'm guilty of this) so that's why it's my last comments on this.

I get it in the NFL. Linemen, for instance are hit or hitting virtually every play of every game. There's not a play where they don't get hit, sometimes for the entirety of the play (unlike hockey). The level of physicality in the NFL is much more, for some positions, than hockey. These guys get bumps, bruises, strains, broken bones, etc....so to me, when they talk about the wear and tear, that's what I understood them to be talking about. A bad bruise can take weeks to heel. A strain/sprain even longer. When this conversation initially started, I acknowledged that wear and tear (injuries) can add up so wasn't disputing that.

I am specifically disagreeing with the notion that the Canes "system" of working hard was causing them to become exhausted/worn out more-so than other teams by season's end. I can't reconcile that the Canes top players are playing less minutes (ES TOI, ES TOI/GP, Total TOI, Total TOI/GP) and wearing out more or are subject to more wear and tear from physical play than other team's top players. That part doesn't hold water to me. I'll leave it at that.

Personally, the Canes being eliminated from the playoffs has nothing to do with being "worn out" and more to do with the factors that have been discussed

1) The Canes lack high end talent (particularly finishing talent) vs. the teams that eliminated us.
2) The Canes have had the inferior goalie in every series we lost and this year it was our 2nd/3rd string. While the goalie isn't responsible for skaters play, we do know there is a mental aspect to it (remember how much better the Canes skaters performed in front of Ward vs. Darling?)
3) On paper, until this year, the Canes really had the inferior team. Boston was a better team both years and even though Canes had a better record than Tampa (in the weird divisions), Tampa was the better team. Even this year, then Ranger's were only 6 points and 3 RW behind Carolina so it wasn't like it was a huge gap (particularly when goalies were considered).
4) The Canes mantra is to outwork the other team. In the playoffs, that becomes infinitely more difficult because every team works hard and thus can negate any advantage.
5) Our special teams have been inferior to our opponents. Some of that could be coaching, but my money is on #1 and #2 above.

Now, since this is the "Trade" thread, what it means to me is the Canes do need to find more finishing talent. Secondly, someone with a little more physical presence would help balance out the lines as well. There was only 1 real physical player (Svech) in our top 6, and he was inconstant.

 

[SoupNazi]

Kane + Aho would be sick

Isn't that in the Bible?

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Bratt, Beauvillier and Blackwood join the latest Trade Targets list

With less than three weeks until the NHL Draft, Frank Seravalli is back with 30 names in play on the...

www.dailyfaceoff.com

Seravalli's trade board.

TDA: on there because Carolina can no longer afford him
Bear: because he fail out of favor here and questions about his fitness levels.

seems unlikely for Bear that this is the reason.

@TheRillestPaulFenton, Bratt is on the list.

 

[SethStarvis]

The Canes should pay up for Nichushkin. He's is the physical piece they are missing to compliment Svechnikov in the top-6. Great puck pursuit.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

The Canes should pay up for Nichushkin. He's is the physical piece they are missing to compliment Svechnikov in the top-6. Great puck pursuit.

hard, hard pass on that. The guy had 6 seasons of averaging .35 ppg. He has one season of .83 and going to get 7 million a year (maybe more). If another team wants to take a 49+ million dollar risk to see if he is a top line guy or just a flash in the pan, let them.

 

[SethStarvis]

hard, hard pass on that. The guy had 6 seasons of averaging .35 ppg. He has one season of .83 and going to get 7 million a year (maybe more). If another team wants to take a 49+ million dollar risk to see if he is a top line guy or just a flash in the pan, let them.

I've watched him play all Playoffs and he passes the eye test nearly every shift. Hard to ignore what is right in front of your eyes. Sometimes it takes time for big power forwards to figure it out.

I see him getting closer to $6 million. Similar contract to Niederreiter. I'd take Nichushkin all day.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I've watched him play all Playoffs and he passes the eye test nearly every shift. Hard to ignore what is right in front of your eyes. Sometimes it takes time for big power forwards to figure it out.

I see him getting closer to $6 million. Similar contract to Niederreiter. I'd take Nichushkin all day.

Evolving hockey has Nichuskin's next deal at 7 x 6.3, which is about a .5 mil drop from a week a go. I am assuming they adjusted the deal with the recent cap only going up normal amounts in a couple of seasons.

Nino nexts deal would be a 7 year 5.8 million deal. Which has changed from a 4 x 5.5 deal from a couple of weeks ago.

I am pretty sure the playoff performance will add more. While I would like to believe in Nichuskin, he didnt show a gradual progression up to the .83 ppg rate. His numbers with Colorado the two seasons before were only .06 and .02 ppg better than his average. Sure if he showed a gradual progression that demonstrated he was improving then I would be all for it. Going from .17, .41, .38 to .83 from seasons 18-19 until now is quite a jump. Indications are more of an anomaly than a new trend.

 

[ndp]

What’s the consensus here on Bear?

I think I’m probably in the minority of fans on this board that would like to see him given another chance, IF he can get his fitness level back up. My gut feeling is that he’ll end up being a solid second pair, PP2 type of guy if given the opportunity. I’m probably also in the minority of fans that hopes to god I never see Smith or Cole in a Hurricanes uniform ever again.

I don’t see how they trade or let TDA and Bear both walk. Having to replace half of the defense again seems like a bad idea, especially with how terrible this years UFA group is.

 

[Lempo]

What’s the consensus here on Bear?

Bear market is not good.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Looking at other teams post season wrap ups, it seems all of the former Hurricanes people wanted back didn’t have good seasons. Who had Reimer as the best performer of the group?

McGinn and Foegele underperformed and the writers for their teams’ writers wonder if they will stay. Both teams need cap space and to replace them with cheaper versions.

Hamilton only scored 30 points in 62 games (1 more than Kotkaniemi).

Mrazek will be buried, bought out, or cap dumped to make room for Toronto.