All Purpose Trade/Roster Building Thread Part X - Offseason 2022

[Big Daddy Cane]

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[Chrispy]

@chaz4hockey said:
Necas clearly was underwhelming.

However, until corrected, I stand on the hill & suggest Necas was hurt. I also think his concussion(s) a while back has also made him gun shy.

I do agree that we need him to either become a competent skating star or combo with some physicality.


I agree Necas is likely far less than 100%. I think he still has that competent skating star in him and want to keep him to see him realize that. As others said, his value is so depressed right now that I think dealing him would only come back to haunt Carolina for years to come.

Get a short-term contract to let him prove his worth again, and then pay the man.

 

[bleedgreen]

You can’t sell low on Necas. He’s never going to be Lindy but he can be a game breaker. He lost his confidence. It happened to Svech too. He works hard he just has to get out of his head.

 

[Unsustainable]

Necas I would use to get Chychrun, I think that is worth the risk of him blowing up and putting it all back together.

Trocheck unless taking a discount is gone, I think Nino should stay.

But we need a tougher line up for the playoffs. Another Ferland type player for the Aho line to be effective in the playoffs.

We also need someone willing to cross that line that gets taken with our players, IE Trouba head shot on Jarvis, Pasta punching Raanta. Something like that happens, they need to know their star players are vulnerable also.

 

[bleedgreen]

Necas I would use to get Chychrun, I think that is worth the risk of him blowing up and putting it all back together.

Trocheck unless taking a discount is gone, I think Nino should stay.

But we need a tougher line up for the playoffs. Another Ferland type player for the Aho line to be effective in the playoffs.

We also need someone willing to cross that line that gets taken with our players, IE Trouba head shot on Jarvis, Pasta punching Raanta. Something like that happens, they need to know their star players are vulnerable also.

We can’t get people to “protect” our guys but we can definitely have more guys that respond to physicality.

The reaction to Koochie getting two handed says it all. Everyone looking at the ref with their hands up. Who cares about the call…..beat that ass.

If Svech wasn’t going to score he could’ve at least ran over every Ranger in his path.

 

[chaz4hockey]

Necas I would use to get Chychrun, I think that is worth the risk of him blowing up and putting it all back together.

Trocheck unless taking a discount is gone, I think Nino should stay.

But we need a tougher line up for the playoffs. Another Ferland type player for the Aho line to be effective in the playoffs.

We also need someone willing to cross that line that gets taken with our players, IE Trouba head shot on Jarvis, Pasta punching Raanta. Something like that happens, they need to know their star players are vulnerable also.

3rd and/or 4th line is where we need the toughness. Staal is a big guy but doesn’t play rough.

 

[FlyingSquirrels]

What about bringing back Saku Maenaleinen? Jesus Christ do we need a pest like him. Martinook ain't it and the fact I need to watch him do nothing except fall down, flub golden opportunities, be overslotted on the 2nd line, for 2 more seasons makes me sick to my stomach.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

we will not have a team that responds to cheap shots unless RBA changes. RBA is the one telling them no, its isnt the players.

 

[chaz4hockey]

^^^^^
Yup…reminds of the hansons being asked to play old time clean hockey until it descends into madness.

In a perfect world, Rod is right about eliminating goon stuff in hockey but playoff hockey is where toughness takes over.

 

[Vagrant]

(Necas). This time last year we were talking about him as a nonstarter in a trade for Laine. his value has complicated since then and his follies are mostly coachable. that isn't to say that he's a lock to bounce back, but there's a degree of inconsistency to his game that can be attributed to youthful immaturity. plus, country of origin stereotypes might be a little played out in modern nhl circles but unpredictable season to season results has long been a hallmark of czech players. hertl, zacha, vrana, kubalik, etc.

it's time to say goodbye to nino. in the spirit of buying a future and not a past, it's time to let go here. he might have a season left of fantastic production, but he's going to age like milk and the skating is already ho hum. he looked poised to unshackle himself from the playoff ghost reputation, but his Rangers series left a lot of the same bitterness we've come to know. he doesn't play with the piss and vinegar disposition he could if he selected that route. his low pulse can be a liability when everyone else is playing angry. what would his ideal contract from a team perspective look like and would you want it? 5.5 for 3 years? 5 for 4 years? those are both pretty bleh to me and that's the team number. his agent has some pretty attractive regular season numbers to lay in front of you. do you even start a conversation at $6 million?

TDA is going to be a weird one. it's such an outlier that my guess is we'll probably see another relatively short term deal with a tip of the cap for image rehabilitation. 2 years at $4.5 is my guess and a pretty fair distribution of the blow up potential he represents. another case of which side would truly want more by term if that was the number. he has 2 seasons like he just had and he might get 7x7 on the open market. this next deal has to keep him hungry and both sides probably recognize it. they bought this consideration when they brought him in nuclear hot. doubt his rfa/ufa status is even a consideration.

trocheck cash check. damn, brind'amour turned him into an animal in the dots. my money would be more comfortable here than on nino, but can you really afford not to pay him? we've struggled with that 2C spot for the entirety of jordan staal's contract and to finally have it resolved and then undo it seems foolish unless the money is just stupid dumb. trocheck kind of gives me that "every damn penny" vibe that erik cole used to give me. fan friendly exterior with a mercenary heart. not too many have sat across from the borg and gotten max value, but this might be a first. there's too much he does well. if the plan was to have kotkaniemi step into this slot, you rethink the plan.

 

[bleedgreen]

Rod never hesitated once to get involved for his teammates or to lead the way into a physical game. I doubt this is him.

Our leaders have been Aho, TT, and Slavin. You couldn’t find three nicer guys. If that’s the core then the core isn’t built to win, it’s only built to be competitive and fun in the regular season.

The reason we’re a real nice bunch of guys to play against starts there.

 

[FlyingSquirrels]

Speaking of RBA......He's the hockey God in Raleigh therefore nothing will happen. I get that. But how many more round 2 exits will it take before the "change of voice" narrative becomes louder? The players will run thru a wall for the guy but as far as a gameday/in-game tactician, I think Rod is severely lacking.

 

[bleedgreen]

(Necas). This time last year we were talking about him as a nonstarter in a trade for Laine. his value has complicated since then and his follies are mostly coachable. that isn't to say that he's a lock to bounce back, but there's a degree of inconsistency to his game that can be attributed to youthful immaturity. plus, country of origin stereotypes might be a little played out in modern nhl circles but unpredictable season to season results has long been a hallmark of czech players. hertl, zacha, vrana, kubalik, etc.

it's time to say goodbye to nino. in the spirit of buying a future and not a past, it's time to let go here. he might have a season left of fantastic production, but he's going to age like milk and the skating is already ho hum. he looked poised to unshackle himself from the playoff ghost reputation, but his Rangers series left a lot of the same bitterness we've come to know. he doesn't play with the piss and vinegar disposition he could if he selected that route. his low pulse can be a liability when everyone else is playing angry. what would his ideal contract from a team perspective look like and would you want it? 5.5 for 3 years? 5 for 4 years? those are both pretty bleh to me and that's the team number. his agent has some pretty attractive regular season numbers to lay in front of you. do you even start a conversation at $6 million?

TDA is going to be a weird one. it's such an outlier that my guess is we'll probably see another relatively short term deal with a tip of the cap for image rehabilitation. 2 years at $4.5 is my guess and a pretty fair distribution of the blow up potential he represents. another case of which side would truly want more by term if that was the number. he has 2 seasons like he just had and he might get 7x7 on the open market. this next deal has to keep him hungry and both sides probably recognize it. they bought this consideration when they brought him in nuclear hot. doubt his rfa/ufa status is even a consideration.

trocheck cash check. damn, brind'amour turned him into an animal in the dots. my money would be more comfortable here than on nino, but can you really afford not to pay him? we've struggled with that 2C spot for the entirety of jordan staal's contract and to finally have it resolved and then undo it seems foolish unless the money is just stupid dumb. trocheck kind of gives me that "every damn penny" vibe that erik cole used to give me. fan friendly exterior with a mercenary heart. not too many have sat across from the borg and gotten max value, but this might be a first. there's too much he does well. if the plan was to have kotkaniemi step into this slot, you rethink the plan.

JK as a Trocheck replacements smells like a huge downgrade for this team, with a possible return of Staal to the second line which absolutely is a step backwards.

I agree Trocheck is a guy we could really use to stick around. He fits in very well, plays the right style, shoots more than he passes, has that swagger we need more of.

I just don’t see us even trying to be competitive with the contract, after watching the Dougie thing go down. Tro might be harder to replace than Dougie.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Rod never hesitated once to get involved for his teammates or to lead the way into a physical game. I doubt this is him.

Our leaders have been Aho, TT, and Slavin. You couldn’t find three nicer guys. If that’s the core then the core isn’t built to win, it’s only built to be competitive and fun in the regular season.

The reason we’re a real nice bunch of guys to play against starts there.

Rod has said himself that we will not get mixed in the crap.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Responding physically entails potentially taking penalties. Lorentz responding to Trouba resulted in an instigator and a PPGA in Game 4.

This feels icky to say, but this team could use a guy that hits "clean" to hurt. On the other side, Carlo going after Svech post-Lindholm hit in Game 2 put the Canes on the PP, which they scored on, killing the Boston comeback that night.

With that in mind, Nikita Zadorov is a UFA this Summer.

 

[bleedgreen]

Speaking of RBA......He's the hockey God in Raleigh therefore nothing will happen. I get that. But how many more round 2 exits will it take before the "change of voice" narrative becomes louder? The players will run thru a wall for the guy but as far as a gameday/in-game tactician, I think Rod is severely lacking.

This is where us being “cheap” hurts us I would guess. We could use a good tactician right beside Rod but we won’t pay for that.

Rod has said himself that we will not get mixed in the crap.

There’s a difference between getting mixed up in crap and being passive as we are getting walked over. There’s no way Rod doesn’t want physicality. Look at the third pair….which is what he’s been trying to do with the third pair the whole time.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

This is where us being “cheap” hurts us I would guess. We could use a good tactician right beside Rod but we won’t pay for that.


There’s a difference between getting mixed up in crap and being passive as we are getting walked over. There’s no way Rod doesn’t want physicality. Look at the third pair….which is what’s he’s been trying to do with the third pair the whole time.

third pair existed because Smith played better than Bear.

 

[chaz4hockey]

I have to respectively disagree re tro.

Too many penalties, not enough goal scoring and as importantly, Svetch didn’t blossom on his line.

I wouldn’t re sign tro, Nino nor Domi and I’d trade martinook for a bag of pucks.

I would bring up Drury, Chatfield and or keane (if trades fail to happen) and another to be named forward. There should be plenty of $ available for upgrades.

I’d use $ to get better defensemen, another goal scorer or two with experience (Miller, Johnny hockey or preferably Forsburg).

I’d even think about moving Koko (not 2nd) to 3rd line, Staal to 4th.

Finally, the team knows whether Necas is hurt or not. If not, move him. If he was, don’t move him.

 

[bleedgreen]

third pair existed because Smith played better than Bear.

“Better” to Rod in terms of the third pair is physical. He’s said it plenty of times in the past. It was at the core of his issue with Fleury.

Bear isn’t very physical and therefore is not Rod’s first choice there. Bear is more likely to play on the second pair than the third.

 

[Vagrant]

Rod has said himself that we will not get mixed in the crap.

to me, there's coach rod and there's player rod. coach rod knows that tactically, allowing another team to run you over for the powerplay opportunities might be your statistical best chance to win games. player rod recognized no such reality and did as his instincts instructed him. coach doesn't get his way every time and a good coach knows that when it comes to protecting each other that you'd damn sure better. especially when your tactical approach to getting more calls for your team is met with a resounding display of selective blindness by the officials. coach rod has to say certain things consistent with the coach's ideology even if he only means it half-heartedly. notice rod's defacto response about being asked about questionable hits or responses from his team "well gee, I didn't really get a good look at it." in other words, do you think I am dumb enough to tell you what I thought about that and make every subsequent response appear premeditated?

 

[Svechhammer]

I'll also say this.... If we come to realize that Necas has been healthy all season and he wasn't battling through some kind of injury that requires surgery, I'm going to be very worried about his continued development and future in the league. Like, it wasn't just that he wasn't getting results, his play was just all around sloppy with a mix of laziness and trying to do too much all at the same time. If he is still with us next year, he has to produce results in 2022-23 if he hopes to remain with us for the future.

 

[Vagrant]

I have to respectively disagree re tro.

Too many penalties, not enough goal scoring and as importantly, Svetch didn’t blossom on his line.

I wouldn’t re sign tro, Nino nor Domi and I’d trade martinook for a bag of pucks.

I would bring up Drury, Chatfield and or keane (if trades fail to happen) and another to be named forward. There should be plenty of $ available for upgrades.

I’d use $ to get better defensemen, another goal scorer or two with experience (Miller, Johnny hockey or preferably Forsburg).

I’d even think about moving Koko (not 2nd) to 3rd line, Staal to 4th.

Finally, the team knows whether Necas is hurt or not. If not, move him. If he was, don’t move him.

I can understand re: trocheck. we all see different things. as it pertains to svechnikov, there was a part of me that had a very pointed post in the queue about his play during the second round last night but decided against it. what i will say is that the time for excuse making for svech and insulating him from any personal accountability has to end for his own good. we all love him and for good reason. however, what he gave us against the rangers was entirely unacceptable for a player of his stature and salary. he was nowhere near dynamic. we keep using this protective language about blossoming or thriving in reference to what we need from him, that time is over. the ELC is over and when that is over, so is the lion's share of your developmental moodiness. especially when you get handed the keys to the kingdom contractually speaking. svetch needs to thrive and elevate others to him at his price point. we shouldn't turn him into goldilocks about finding the optimal fit to make him visible. he just needs to show up focused on the right things instead of getting sidetracked by toughness narratives or attempting to take numbers.

 

[chaz4hockey]

I can understand re: trocheck. we all see different things. as it pertains to svechnikov, there was a part of me that had a very pointed post in the queue about his play during the second round last night but decided against it. what i will say is that the time for excuse making for svech and insulating him from any personal accountability has to end for his own good. we all love him and for good reason. however, what he gave us against the rangers was entirely unacceptable for a player of his stature and salary. he was nowhere near dynamic. we keep using this protective language about blossoming or thriving in reference to what we need from him, that time is over. the ELC is over and when that is over, so is the lion's share of your developmental moodiness. especially when you get handed the keys to the kingdom contractually speaking. svetch needs to thrive and elevate others to him at his price point. we shouldn't turn him into goldilocks about finding the optimal fit to make him visible. he just needs to show up focused on the right things instead of getting sidetracked by toughness narratives or attempting to take numbers.

Fair points.

I agree re: Svetch. Very high draft pick and now has had a reasonable amount of years in the NHL. We needed much more physicality other than what we saw in game 1 in Boston plus more point production.

Hopefully, he works on his shooting and skating over the off season. We need for him to be a one-timer guy and also solve his propensity to missing of the puck that often occurs when he is attempting to shoot (needs glasses??? )

 

[spockBokk]

I’m also of the belief that if they make an honest attempt to retain any of their UFAs, the one guy most likely to stick around would be Trocheck. He’s too good a fit. If they jettison Necas, I think the likelihood of Trocheck being here next season goes up.

I wonder if Trocheck could shift to RW on a line centered by Kotkaniemi?

Teravainen-Aho-Jarvis
Svechnikov-Kotkaniemi-Trocheck

That’s not too bad. It lacks dynamic scoring though, so probably unlikely.

 

[Unsustainable]

Defense:

Slavin - TDA
Chychrun - Pesce
Skjei - Chatfield