All-purpose Kessel thread (continued)

[Trapper]

do they now?

and what is that internal #?

last i checked they are only running a couple of million under the cap

They could have interest no doubt, they just didn't stand out for me. They moved Bobby Ryan (they could have just kept him) so I figured they were looking for a different team concept approach.

 

[hfdshdh]

It all depends on where your franchise is and what your franchise has. Sometimes you need to trade youth for finished products close to your cores age so that you can make a push when your best players are prime.

Nashville is very close to this position. The only question will be if they calculate that the risk to the long term is worth the reward of a maybe cup now. For some clubs its easy to go for it but for clubs like Nashville a future rebuild could be trouble so sometimes they settle for just being good and never go for it really

People talk about how we should trade Kessel so we don't 'waste his prime years'.... but it may well be even worse than that. If you look at when offensive players like Kessel tend to peak, it's entirely possible - likely, even - that we've already wasted his prime years.

Entertaining the idea that we should hang on to him through this rebuild is insane. He'll be in his early 30's before this thing even begins to get off the ground.

If anything, the time to gut this core was last summer.

 

[Faltorvo]

They could have interest no doubt, they just didn't stand out for me. They moved Bobby Ryan (they could have just kept him) so I figured they were looking for a different team concept approach.

ya they moved out a guy that they had a bad relationship with.

contract and ice time issues for many years with them.

 

[Reddaye]

do they now?

and what is that internal #?

last i checked they are only running a couple of million under the cap

The number used to be $56M. However, I did some digging and due to the upturn in the economy the owner may have pulled their internal cap.

So I retract that statement. They may actually be a cap team now.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Were you suggesting a 10m lump sum payment? I thought shenanigans like that weren't allowed. Or maybe I misunderstood.

He will be paid $10m next year. Some times that payment is spread out over a 12 month period, sometimes it is paid upfront at the start of the year and I think I have read some players have the money paid out for months over the regular season. If we pay his years salary for 15/16 in a lump sum at the start of his contract before we move him he have already been paid for that year and his new team dont have to pay him anything until his 3rd contract year starts and he will be paid $8m. That is at least how I understand it, could be wrong. And I dont see how it could be illegal. The cap hit remain the same and if the richest franchise in the league is willing to "help out" one of the poorest I dont think the league will see a problem with it either.

Anyway, that is at least one way we could use our financial strength to our benefit to get a better return in trades.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Two points to emphasize here. Kessel is paid $10 mil next year (as he was this year in real $). However July 1st 2015 Leafs owe him a $4 mil signing bonus.. So if you take $64 mil total $$ owed and -$10 mil (from 2014-15) & -$4 mil (from 2015-16) and trade Kessel on July 2nd to NYI it = $50 mil owed X 7 years = $7.14 mil average.

And we could pay his 15/16 years salary in a lump sum after July 1st and make the contract even easier to move. That is if he is ok with it of course. I think it is the players who decide how they get paid. But I dont think Kessel would be hard to convince. And I reckon a move to NY and to get to play with Tavares is something he is willing to do in terms of adding Islanders to his list of teams.

 

[Mess]

He will be paid $10m next year. Some times that payment is spread out over a 12 month period, sometimes it is paid upfront at the start of the year and I think I have read some players have the money paid out for months over the regular season. If we pay his years salary for 15/16 in a lump sum at the start of his contract before we move him he have already been paid for that year and his new team dont have to pay him anything until his 3rd contract year starts and he will be paid $8m. That is at least how I understand it, could be wrong. And I dont see how it could be illegal. The cap hit remain the same and if the richest franchise in the league is willing to "help out" one of the poorest I dont think the league will see a problem with it either.

Anyway, that is at least one way we could use our financial strength to our benefit to get a better return in trades.

Kessel's official contract breakdown is $10 mil next year broken down as $4 mil signing bonus in July 1st, 2015 and his base salary over the course of the season is $6 mil.

It was either Dreger or McKenzie that clarified this near the TD.

So Leafs could trade Kessel on July 2nd, 2015 after eating $4 mil salary themselves and pass the entire $8 mil cap to his new team, but leaving only $6 mil owing for that season.(and $50 mil balance on contract).

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Kessel's official contract breakdown is $10 mil next year broken down as $4 mil signing bonus in July 1st, 2015 and his base salary over the course of the season is $6 mil.

It was either Dreger or McKenzie that clarified this near the TD.

So Leafs could trade Kessel on July 2nd, 2015 after eating $4 mil salary themselves and pass the entire $8 mil cap to his new team, but leaving only $6 mil owing for that season.(and $50 mil balance on contract).

But can we not also pay out his salary in a lump sum as well if he is ok with it?

 

[Faltorvo]

But can we not also pay out his salary in a lump sum as well if he is ok with it?

i ahhhh, ummmm hrmmmm

interesting concept


can't say i have ever heard anything of the sort, either way ya cut it.

 

[diceman934]

He will be paid $10m next year. Some times that payment is spread out over a 12 month period, sometimes it is paid upfront at the start of the year and I think I have read some players have the money paid out for months over the regular season. If we pay his years salary for 15/16 in a lump sum at the start of his contract before we move him he have already been paid for that year and his new team dont have to pay him anything until his 3rd contract year starts and he will be paid $8m. That is at least how I understand it, could be wrong. And I dont see how it could be illegal. The cap hit remain the same and if the richest franchise in the league is willing to "help out" one of the poorest I dont think the league will see a problem with it either.

Anyway, that is at least one way we could use our financial strength to our benefit to get a better return in trades.

Bonus money is paid in advance .....Kessel is paid 10M this year and the next, 9M the two years following then 7M for two years and then 6M the last two years. He never earns 8M in a year.

Next year 4M of his 10M salary is bonus money


Here is how his contract looks.

2014/2015 Salary $10,000,000 Signing bonus 4,500,000
Cap hit $8,000,000

2015/2016 Salary $10,000,000 Signing bonus$4,000,000 Cap hit $8,000,000

2016/2017 Salary $9,000,000 Signing bonus$2,000,000 Cap hit$8,000,000

2017/2018 Salary $9,000,000 Signing bonus$2,000,000 Cap hit$8,000,000

2018 /2019 Salary $7,000,000 Cap hit $8,000,000

2019/2020 Salary $7,000,000 Cap hit $8,000,000

2020/2021 Salary $6,000,000 Signing bonus$5,000,000 Cap hit $8,000,000

2021/2022 Salary $6,000,000 Signing bonus$5,000,000 Cap hit$8,000,000

 

[Trapper]

ya they moved out a guy that they had a bad relationship with.

contract and ice time issues for many years with them.

The first order of business is playing out the season and finding out where we draft. This is our prize. Next, once all teams know their draft position and playoff fate, they might be willing to deal in preparation for next year.
Getting Jones isn't the be all, end all of a Kessel deal for me. There are many good teams with good prospects, Dal Colle, Pulock, Hertl, Tierney, Fiala, Watson, Coyle, 1st round picks etc. that could form a solid nucleus for our team heading forward.

 

[Mess]

But can we not also pay out his salary in a lump sum as well if he is ok with it?

Unfortunately Nope.

Reason base salaries are paid out on a by-weekly basis throughout the course of a season. The CBA has the signing bonus component for any lump sum payments and a base salary component.

That is why the new CBA invented salary retention aspect so a team could withhold a lump sum % of a players contract but also take the according cap hit. Salary retention is max allowable at 50% per year and must be the same for all years. So for Kessel it would be salary retention at 50% X 7 years.

Keep in mind also any retained salary = Cap hit also at the same time.

 

[diceman934]

But can we not also pay out his salary in a lump sum as well if he is ok with it?

No...all NHL players are paid the Salary the same way...standardize contracts.

 

[CDN24]

Bonus money is paid in advance .....Kessel is paid 10M this year and the next, 9M the two years following then 7M for two years and then 6M the last two years. He never earns 8M in a year.

Next year 4M of his 10M salary is bonus money


Here is how his contract looks.

2014/2015 Salary $10,000,000 Signing bonus 4,500,000
Cap hit $8,000,000

2015/2016 Salary $10,000,000 Signing bonus$4,000,000 Cap hit $8,000,000

2016/2017 Salary $9,000,000 Signing bonus$2,000,000 Cap hit$8,000,000

2017/2018 Salary $9,000,000 Signing bonus$2,000,000 Cap hit$8,000,000

2018 /2019 Salary $7,000,000 Cap hit $8,000,000

2019/2020 Salary $7,000,000 Cap hit $8,000,000

2020/2021 Salary $6,000,000 Signing bonus$5,000,000 Cap hit $8,000,000

2021/2022 Salary $6,000,000 Signing bonus$5,000,000 Cap hit$8,000,000

Nice to see that Dave buyout proofed the last 2 years of that deal with bonus as well.

I doubt Nashville ever trades Jones but at what point do they consider trading Weber. It would take more than Kessel to get him but I could see4 nashville moving Weber for a big return when they think Jones is ready for the next step.