Player Discussion All-encompassing goaltending megathread

[Bluenote13]

It's not that simple. We have all been on Lundqvist and the Rangers journey to success. Does he deserve to get mocked? Probably not. It's his first bad year in a 12-year career. He was primarily responsible for bringing playoff hockey back to Madison Square Garden. Some of the younger fans might not remember what it was like before Lundqvist, but to see your team fail to make the playoffs seven consecutive years were hard to watch.

But he will get jeered by the fan base for having one bad year? How many bad years has Nash had in his career? What about Redden, Drury, and Gomez who we signed to enormous contracts when they came here? Gaborik was great, but he had bad years with the team too. All of these players were star players, earning $6-8M, who had bad years with the team, but received a fraction of the criticism that this man has in a single year (with the possible exception of Redden). How many bad years have Staal and Girardi had? They're not making peanuts.

He is the primary reason the Rangers have been in the hunt. You can't have that Stanley Cup run, or multiple conference finals runs without Henrik Lundqvist and what he brought to the table. He will go down as the greatest Rangers goaltender in history, and that alone makes me want to see him retire as a Ranger, win his 400th game as a Ranger, and most of all, win as a Ranger.

He was the Rangers MVP for seven consecutive years. He put the team back on the map. Some of the younger fans at the Garden wouldn't even know playoff hockey without the guy. Sure, he wasn't the only reason, but he was the biggest reason. In his peak, he was the best in the world. It showed with his playoff resume.

He is having one bad year, and he is being ripped apart. I feel like fans can't put that in perspective. Everyone is so caught in the moment, that they forget how much this guy has done to turn around what was a terrible franchise.

In his last 97 games, Hank has given up 2 or less goals in 62 of those games, how many current NHL goalies have a similar record?

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

his numbers the last 5 games are scary. like i mean bad goalie scary.

.840

4.4

2-3

hes been bad since before mid last season. so its been over 1 year now. this isnt something recent really. its been over 2 seasons now.

a gradual, slow decline in his play.

this defense hasn't been good but hank hasn't been able to make the simple routine saves. thats the issue. he isnt making saves lesser goalies make all the time and hes not making the big saves were used to seeing him make.

hate to say it again, but im not so sure we lose that game with raanta in net. pretty sure we win.

So many lies in this post that i don't even know where to start.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

his numbers the last 5 games are scary. like i mean bad goalie scary.

.840

4.4

2-3

hes been bad since before mid last season. so its been over 1 year now. this isnt something recent really. its been over 2 seasons now.

a gradual, slow decline in his play.

this defense hasn't been good but hank hasn't been able to make the simple routine saves. thats the issue. he isnt making saves lesser goalies make all the time and hes not making the big saves were used to seeing him make.

hate to say it again, but im not so sure we lose that game with raanta in net. pretty sure we win.

I'm just wondering if you look at any stats & facts or if you choose to just write incorrect things because they're your opinion?

This is so uninformed it's somewhat sad that a person can watch so much hockey and have so little knowledge of what is actually occurring on the ice.

 

[Siddi]

So many lies in this post that i don't even know where to start.

Dont. These post & runners rarely come back when challenged.

 

[offdacrossbar]

ODC, Now you're extending his poor play not only to last season, but 2014-15 as well? Jesus christ, there'e enough true things to complain about with his game this season, you don't need to be a revisionist to make your point.

30-13-3 2.25 .923 in 2014-15


As much as some of you are eager to write Hank off and act like this has been going on for a while, it hasn't. That's revisionist history.

Even last year, he was largely fine. He had bad games, sure like any goalie would. However, he looked like himself and was perfectly fine all season. It was completely apparent that the defense was the real problem last season, Hank wasn't the issue. This season it's more evenly split.

Most noticeably, he hasn't looked like himself.

He most definitely hasn't looked like this for over 2 years and implying that is just a flat out wrong.

lol. no.

i said 2 seasons now. this and last. not 2 years !!

not 14-15 bro.

15-16 and 16-17 seasons

had a great start to last year and tailed off bigly.

since mid last year to now, hes been average.

 

[aufheben]

Here is his rolling SV% over the last half dozen seasons, I put a red line in to show approximately .915, the average NHL SV% has fluctuated between .912-.915 during that span

 

[NYRKindms]

Here is his rolling SV% over the last half dozen seasons, I put a red line in to show approximately .915, the average NHL SV% has fluctuated between .912-.915 during that span

That graph seems to back up the argument that his slide started last season. And he has been struggling just to stay league Average

RE: The Jeering. Its deserved. The fans didn't get on Hank until the 2nd and many goals. THAT is what he has earned as "The King" anyone else they would have been blowing up on the first bad goal. And Hank has been giving up a lot of bad goals. So the fans have been patient. You want the bright lights of the big city ? Well this is it, easy to do when people are chanting your name, not so easy when they think you need to get to work

 

[Dagoon44]

Go to NHL.com and listen to the goals with the stars announcers lol Calling hank Lost , a mess and horrible.. WOW long way from the excuses here and Joe has blamed everything from screens to deflections come on man the guy is awful for the first time ever.. We need to deal with it and hope it rights itself..

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Forgive me if this has been discussed, but my theory on Lundqvists sub-par year+ is that he hasnt had the proper rest, for a while. He seems to be off his angles and just not as sharp. 2 kids = sleep deprivation.

See supporting stats:

Sleep has been shown to directly impact exercise abilities:
Well-rested tennis players have a 4.2% increase in hitting accuracy
Well-rested swimmers showed a 17% improvement in starting times
Well-rested football players dropped 0.1 second off their 40-yard dash time
Well-rested basketball players increased free throw and 3-point shooting percentage by 9% each
Under-rested athletes lost 20 pounds off their bench press after only 4 days of inadequate sleep
Perceived exhaustion increased 18% after only 30 hours of sleep loss
Sleep loss led to an 11% increase in time to exhaustion

For a goalie, messing with reaction times and focus, even in the slightest in the NHL - you will get burned.


He's got two kids, his second is about to turn 2 in March. I have two girls of my own, 5 and 2. I play hockey twice a week and Im lucky if I get 6-8 hours of sleep straight through the night. The nights before my games I try my best to get 8 hours. uh, not happening. Almost every night is interrupted.

Unless Hank is sleeping in another room within his mansion - far away from the kids, he is in the same boat. But even so he probably is awoken with his wife taking on the annoying duty of tending to the late night coughing, screaming, crying etc. It slowly kills your focus. Breaking your REM patterns in the middle of the night is all it takes, you dont have to be the one to get up. I wonder what his home/road splits are (because hes at home half the time - but even still sleep deprivation is not something you can easily "catch up" on)

I dont know. But I look at his general focus level and it reminds me of myself trying to play on 5 hours of rest, like every game. You just arent as sharp consistently. Silly thought, but how silly is it really?

Someone throw up some stats pre-daddy Hank vs post-daddy Hank. Look at that chart above! No coincidence that it started early last season, when he had his second child. A lot changes. He seems like a good father that wants to be involved. Maybe he should think about sleeping in guest house.

 

[Brief Candle]

I think a lot of people on here seem to equate critiques with having no appreciation for what someone has done.

Fact: As some have said, Hank is part of what brought back winning hockey to MSG. I don't wish the early 2000's Rangers on any fan. He was a beacon of hope for this franchise. We hadn't seen the likes of him sine Beezer or Richter. I remember his first game when Weekes was out with an injury thinking "Great. Who is THIS scrub?" and being completely amazed by his skill.

However what is also a fact is that as we age, we lose the ability to compete at the same level we once did. If this wasn't the case, Gordie Howe would probably somehow still be playing. He WILL decline. That much is certain. It's just nature. It's not a jab at him as a person. It's not calling into question what he did for this franchise. It's just the way things are.

I will not deny that our defense has been absolutely abysmal. However, up until last season, more often than not, Hank would make the save. That doesn't happen as frequently any longer. He's not tracking the puck well. He's always been an athletic goalie who relied on his reflexes to make saves. That seems a step off now.

I'm sorry, but I don't think it's unfair for any astute fan of this game to call it like they see it. He's starting to show a smack of age. It's entirely human and entirely natural. He'll always be the King, that's for damn sure, but jeez guys, just accept reality here.

 

[Bluenote13]

Forgive me if this has been discussed, but my theory on Lundqvists sub-par year+ is that he hasnt had the proper rest, for a while. He seems to be off his angles and just not as sharp. 2 kids = sleep deprivation.

See supporting stats:

Sleep has been shown to directly impact exercise abilities:
Well-rested tennis players have a 4.2% increase in hitting accuracy
Well-rested swimmers showed a 17% improvement in starting times
Well-rested football players dropped 0.1 second off their 40-yard dash time
Well-rested basketball players increased free throw and 3-point shooting percentage by 9% each
Under-rested athletes lost 20 pounds off their bench press after only 4 days of inadequate sleep
Perceived exhaustion increased 18% after only 30 hours of sleep loss
Sleep loss led to an 11% increase in time to exhaustion

For a goalie, messing with reaction times and focus, even in the slightest in the NHL - you will get burned.


He's got two kids, his second is about to turn 2 in March. I have two girls of my own, 5 and 2. I play hockey twice a week and Im lucky if I get 6-8 hours of sleep straight through the night. The nights before my games I try my best to get 8 hours. uh, not happening. Almost every night is interrupted.

Unless Hank is sleeping in another room within his mansion - far away from the kids, he is in the same boat. But even so he probably is awoken with his wife taking on the annoying duty of tending to the late night coughing, screaming, crying etc. It slowly kills your focus. Breaking your REM patterns in the middle of the night is all it takes, you dont have to be the one to get up. I wonder what his home/road splits are (because hes at home half the time - but even still sleep deprivation is not something you can easily "catch up" on)

I dont know. But I look at his general focus level and it reminds me of myself trying to play on 5 hours of rest, like every game. You just arent as sharp consistently. Silly thought, but how silly is it really?

Someone throw up some stats pre-daddy Hank vs post-daddy Hank. Look at that chart above! No coincidence that it started early last season, when he had his second child. A lot changes. He seems like a good father that wants to be involved. Maybe he should think about sleeping in guest house.

Sports figures have kids all the time and there is no direct correlation to this happening on even a small sample size.

Plus, people with money have nannies. Sometimes multiple nannies. Plus, every hockey player Ive ever known takes naps during the day before a game if they did not get a good nights sleep.

 

[silverfish]

Things it's okay to admit:

1. Hank has been bad
2. The Rangers defense has been bad
3. (1)&(2) can exist simultaneously
4. (3) seems to be true, which is why it appears so bad
5. Jakub Nakladal never got a fair shot in the NHL this year
6. Yes, Henrik has been great for this organization, and he's the consummate pro
7. Does (6) mean we can't criticize him? Of course not
8. Have the Rangers rewarded Hank handsomely for (6)? Yes
9. Be able to separate Henrik the man, and Henrik the Ranger

 

[Revel]

I am sorry you feel that way. There is a simple solution, stop posting **** that isn't true.

I don't post things that aren't true. What would I have to gain by doing that? You, on the other hand, seem to be in constant denial whenever something is said or something occurs that doesn't portray Hank with a Halo over his head.

Did you even watch the post-game presser? He criticized the amount of close-in chances the D was allowing. This is what I refer to as "Calling out the D".

What the **** is wrong with you? Are you so blinded by your love for Hank that you can't even hear properly?

 

[Irishguy42]

Things it's okay to admit:

1. Hank has been bad
2. The Rangers defense has been bad
3. (1)&(2) can exist simultaneously
4. (3) seems to be true, which is why it appears so bad
5. Jakub Nakladal never got a fair shot in the NHL this year
6. Yes, Henrik has been great for this organization, and he's the consummate pro
7. Does (6) mean we can't criticize him? Of course not
8. Have the Rangers rewarded Hank handsomely for (6)? Yes
9. Be able to separate Henrik the man, and Henrik the Ranger

This is something HFNYR seems to have a problem agreeing with

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Things it's okay to admit:

5. Jakub Nakladal never got a fair shot in the NHL this year

10. eyjee is silverfish, silverfish is eyjee

 

[Bluenote13]

I don't post things that aren't true. What would I have to gain by doing that? You, on the other hand, seem to be in constant denial whenever something is said or something occurs that doesn't portray Hank with a Halo over his head.

Did you even watch the post-game presser? He criticized the amount of close-in chances the D was allowing. This is what I refer to as "Calling out the D".

What the **** is wrong with you? Are you so blinded by your love for Hank that you can't even hear properly?

So did EVERYONE, why is he not allowed to as a leader of this club?

If he said 'its all on the defense, i was fine' you'd have a point, but he didn't, that is why only a few people are making this out to be something its not.

 

[Revel]

So did EVERYONE, why is he not allowed to as a leader of this club?

If he said 'its all on the defense, i was fine' you'd have a point, but he didn't, that is why only a few people are making this out to be something its not.

The only point I had was that Hank called out the D. That's what he did. You think because he took partial blame for last night's game that it magically means that he did not call out the D?

To be clear...I am not against Hank...I'm just making observations. Hank called out the D....when it is very unlikely the D would call out Hank in a presser. Have you ever heard McD say "Hank needs to be better?"

I question whether or not what Hank said is appropriate. Some things are better left said by management. I think calling out players should be AV's realm.

It's amazing I even have to argue this.

If I called the sky blue on a cloudless day, you'd claim the shade is not technically blue.

 

[Bluenote13]

The only point I had was that Hank called out the D. That's what he did. You think because he took partial blame for last night's game that it magically means that he did not call out the D?

To be clear...I am not against Hank...I'm just making observations. Hank called out the D....when it is very unlikely the D would call out Hank in a presser. Have you ever heard McD say "Hank needs to be better?"

I question whether or not what Hank said is appropriate. Some things are better left said by management. I think calling out players should be AV's realm.

It's amazing I even have to argue this.

If I called the sky blue on a cloudless day, you'd claim the shade is not technically blue.

Its amazing that youve never heard a team leader call it like it is. Did the defense stink YES. Did he stink YES. Did he admit to both YES. Wow, what a controversy !

 

[Revel]

Its amazing that youve never heard a team leader call it like it is. Did the defense stink YES. Did he stink YES. Did he admit to both YES. Wow, what a controversy !

Regardless of whether or not Hank has a point, it comes off as whiny excuse-making when he blames others for his misfortune. Perhaps not good for the locker-room. That's my point.

 

[Bluenote13]

Regardless of whether or not Hank has a point, it comes off as whiny excuse-making when he blames others for his misfortune. Perhaps not good for the locker-room. That's my point.

Its okay man, plenty of blame to go around.

 

[Revel]

Its okay man, plenty of blame to go around.

We agree on that. Between Hank & the D, there is plenty to go around.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Literally two weeks ago today in Philadelphia he was excellent. It's not a physical issue. It's mental.

You do realize that if he's deteriorating he can still showcase physical skills in spades, right? That's part of the natural aging process.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Its amazing that youve never heard a team leader call it like it is. Did the defense stink YES. Did he stink YES. Did he admit to both YES. Wow, what a controversy !

I have a hard time agreeing with this since no one on the team ever criticizes him. I find that to be pretty telling, frankly. I think he should be doing the same.

 

[mike14]

Here is his rolling SV% over the last half dozen seasons, I put a red line in to show approximately .915, the average NHL SV% has fluctuated between .912-.915 during that span

Ouch. That really does seem to back up the theory that after a great start last year it all went south a fair bit.

The blame game doesn't interest me; what the Rangers as a team/organisation do next is what does. Are they just going to ride out his contract regardless and hope that rebounds to an above average at least goalie? Do they do the almost unthinkable and start looking for a trade partner?

 

[Revel]

I have a hard time agreeing with this since no one on the team ever criticizes him. I find that to be pretty telling, frankly. I think he should be doing the same.

Agreed. Hank has no problem throwing other players under the bus. I'm not a big fan of it. Like AK said earlier in the thread...he should keep his yap shut and work on what he can do to fix his OWN game. Let AV take care of criticizing other players in the media.