Speculation: All Bruins trade proposals/rumors IX: Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens

[Mr. Make-Believe]

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[Kate08]

He is. Doesn't tweet much. He uses it to follow Jared Knight

So what you're telling me is restraining orders don't cover Twitter? Good to know.

 

[bbfan419]

I don't get why people on here are so in love with Lucic and Chara and this whole tough guy Bruins image, we won one cup due mostly to Tim Thomas and this whole tough image thing is blown out of proportion, even in the 70's we had guys like Orr and Espostito that provided lots of offence. Whether you like it or not the NHL has changed penalties are called for hardly even touching someone now, imagine a guy like Scott Stevens playing today he would be suspended most of the year. It is okay to have a gritty guy or two in the bottom 6, but the top lines need goal scorers not bangers

It is time to get away from this tough image and start going with a high octane offense type of team, lets go for a McDavid and get a Taylor Hall, maybe add a Wayne Simmonds who can play physical , but also knows how to provide offence. Fire Claude and get someone next year like Babcock. Sick and tired of teams like the habs beating us with their speed game while our big lumbering idiots get skated into the ground. Change the culture deal away most of the core guys and get players with skill for a change.

 

[KuralySnipes]

I doubt Lucic's value is that significant to be honest. I would rather go after a futures package for him. Maybe a team like Edmonton would trade Marincin+draft picks+Perron (lower cap hit could fill a 2nd/3rd line role this year) + maybe something else in a package for Lucic (+)? I know Edmonton is "rebuilding" so in theory it doesn't make sense for them to trade futures, but maybe they'd be looking at going in a different direction and attempt to get more established NHL talent to play with Drasatial and RNH.

That deal would obviously mean we throw in the towel this year, but the cap flexibility and potential pieces we get back in a trade like that could pay off down the line.

 

[Ice Nine]

I thought the Seguin trade was the right decision at the time and throughout last season, but man what a cluster**** that thing has become. The drafting has seemed to improve in recent years as Blidh, and Cehlarik look to be potential late draft steals (Hopefully?), but this FO drafting has been among the league worst for the past 5 or so years, it is ridiculous.

The Seguin trade was stupid at the time and colossally stupid now.

Even if you buy the idea that Seguin wouldn't "fit" here (I don't, I think that's code language for CJ being unwilling to find a long term role for an elite offensive player in his system), then you don't just give away a franchise player without getting a comparable franchise player or pick in return.

Edmonton seem to be having similar concerns about whether Taylor Hall "fits" in their organization. And yet, as incompetent as the Oilers are, just wait and see if they unload Hall for inferior assets.

Never. Gonna. Happen.

 

[Absurdity]

If this is a lost season, anyone not named Bergeron, Krejci, maybe one of Lucic/Marchand, Hamilton, Chara, and Rask should be fair game.

 

[Ice Nine]

I doubt Lucic's value is that significant to be honest. I would rather go after a futures package for him. Maybe a team like Edmonton would trade Marincin+draft picks+Perron (lower cap hit could fill a 2nd/3rd line role this year) + maybe something else in a package for Lucic (+)? I know Edmonton is "rebuilding" so in theory it doesn't make sense for them to trade futures, but maybe they'd be looking at going in a different direction and attempt to get more established NHL talent to play with Drasatial and RNH.

That deal would obviously mean we throw in the towel this year, but the cap flexibility and potential pieces we get back in a trade like that could pay off down the line.

Edmonton prize Lucic. Make him the centrepiece of a trade for Hall. I'd prefer to send Rask. But whatever makes it happen.

 

[BudMovin*]

Bergeron, Rask, Krug for O'Reilly, Varlamov, Barrie.

Lol.

 

[KnightofBoston]

Watch for yeti posted:

"I thought the Seguin trade was the right decision at the time and throughout last season, but man what a cluster**** that thing has become. The drafting has seemed to improve in recent years as Blidh, and Cehlarik look to be potential late draft steals (Hopefully?), but this FO drafting has been among the league worst for the past 5 or so years, it is ridiculous."

I was more or less on the same page...I was always a big seguin backer/defender and saw a lot of potential in him, but after his performance in the playoffs and the potential for the trade I felt it could work out for both teams. I still hope it does...but it looks bleaker as we go and the piss poor drafting is even worse and makes the situation worse

I just don't have as much faith in this team's ability to evaluate players...which is funny because I've been thumping for them to just load up for the draft for awhile now, I guess I'm hoping the draft is so good they can't possibly screw up


I agree their more recent picks seem to be better...but my worry is by the time they make an impact, we'll miss our second window with bergeron and that core getting older...Or worse, the guidelines for how you play here are so rigid, none of these guys fit in...


I like the identity they are trying to go for, I like the coach, but champion teams find ways to fit players with elite talent in

The Hawks and Kings have proven they are champions, the Bruins haven't been able to prove their model can work...needed miracles both times to get to the finals, and when they finally faced a good team that has its **** together there were no miracles left.

We can keep clinging to those past successes, what happens 5 years from now when it's more of the same ? Are we still going to say, "well they brought us a cup and finals...."

Time to be proactive and build this team the right way instead of clinging to old ideals that worked once but have been figured out. Montreal beats us all the time because they've figured us out, built their team to beat us, and everyone besides claude and co seem to see it...

 

[Baddkarma]

I don't get why people on here are so in love with Lucic and Chara and this whole tough guy Bruins image, we won one cup due mostly to Tim Thomas and this whole tough image thing is blown out of proportion, even in the 70's we had guys like Orr and Espostito that provided lots of offence. Whether you like it or not the NHL has changed penalties are called for hardly even touching someone now, imagine a guy like Scott Stevens playing today he would be suspended most of the year. It is okay to have a gritty guy or two in the bottom 6, but the top lines need goal scorers not bangers

It is time to get away from this tough image and start going with a high octane offense type of team, lets go for a McDavid and get a Taylor Hall, maybe add a Wayne Simmonds who can play physical , but also knows how to provide offence. Fire Claude and get someone next year like Babcock. Sick and tired of teams like the habs beating us with their speed game while our big lumbering idiots get skated into the ground. Change the culture deal away most of the core guys and get players with skill for a change.

Well there is a limbo that a team can enter and it is where the Bruins are now. They are neither a team tough nor elite skilled enough. So you wind up being a bottom 1/3 team and your existence is just brutal for the fan and player I would imagine.

It is easier to find some gritty guys that can be a real pain in the ass in the playoffs as compared to bringing skilled guys who wilt in the intense heat of the playoff environment.

Chia has screwed this current roster by making one of the worst trades of the last 20 years and we all know what that was. On top of that there is no one with any real seasoning, a couple years in the minors, with any skill to step in and take over the scoring duties on the top wing spot.

It is talked about all the time during the games, "The Bruins dont have an identity."

So lets see where Chia takes this roster with contracts he was given to the players...

 

[kytem2]

Edmonton prize Lucic. Make him the centrepiece of a trade for Hall. I'd prefer to send Rask. But whatever makes it happen.

Hmm, and that is quite the knowledgeable management group there...maybe they can be fleeced in a trade for Lucic.

 

[What The Puck]

Joe Thornton, Phil Kessel, Tyler Seguin. All franchise talents.

But hey, we have Loui Eriksson, right?

In any event, I think this is the year to rebuild. I'm okay if we miss the playoffs this year. Maybe even two or three years. I don't think anyone is beyond being traded, given the right offer. I laugh at people who say there are no possible deals for certain players.

The question is, does the front office have the talent to draft well? Does the coach have the patience to develop talent? I'm not sure those answers are yes. I don't think Boston is quite as bad as Edmonton in this area, but it's still very concerning.

 

[Ice Nine]

Watch for yeti posted:

"I thought the Seguin trade was the right decision at the time and throughout last season, but man what a cluster**** that thing has become. The drafting has seemed to improve in recent years as Blidh, and Cehlarik look to be potential late draft steals (Hopefully?), but this FO drafting has been among the league worst for the past 5 or so years, it is ridiculous."

I was more or less on the same page...I was always a big seguin backer/defender and saw a lot of potential in him, but after his performance in the playoffs and the potential for the trade I felt it could work out for both teams. I still hope it does...but it looks bleaker as we go and the piss poor drafting is even worse and makes the situation worse

I just don't have as much faith in this team's ability to evaluate players...which is funny because I've been thumping for them to just load up for the draft for awhile now, I guess I'm hoping the draft is so good they can't possibly screw up

Seguin's 2012-2013 playoff performance was a statistical anomaly that would not, and will not, happen again. Otherwise, he was leading the Bruins in goals and points, or competing therefore, by the end of his first full season and also his second, including the 2011-2012 playoffs.

See my analysis here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=94602909&postcount=178

 

[KnightofBoston]

Seguin's 2012-2013 playoff performance was a statistical anomaly that would not, and will not, happen again. Otherwise, he was leading the Bruins in goals and points, or competing therefore, by the end of his first full season and also his second, including the 2011-2012 playoffs.

See my analysis here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=94602909&postcount=178

I read your analysis the first time

There's no way seguin will do that poorly, but if I had to bet money on him being the player he is in the regular season, in the playoffs, I wouldn't because I wouldn't be confident in that happening.

 

[Replicator]

I don't get why people on here are so in love with Lucic and Chara and this whole tough guy Bruins image, we won one cup due mostly to Tim Thomas

I like the identity they are trying to go for, I like the coach, but champion teams find ways to fit players with elite talent in

The Hawks and Kings have proven they are champions, the Bruins haven't been able to prove their model can work...needed miracles both times to get to the finals, and when they finally faced a good team that has its **** together there were no miracles left.

Holy crap this argument is ridiculous.
The last 4 seasons:
2010-11 Won Stanley Cup Final, 1st in division
2011-12 playoff exit, 1st in division
2012-13 Conference winner, lost Stanley Cup in 6 games, 2nd in division
2013-14 playoff exit, 1st in division, president's cup

That has been a damn amazing run. Something they've been doing has been working. There is one (arguably 2) team out of the league that has done better.
It's not just Tim Thomas. It's not just picking up a guy at the trade deadline. They've played well. Incredibly well. The system has been working. Who did the Hawks pick up in mid 2012/13 that made heir team? No one, they were just a crazy good team who was slightly better than the Bruins.

I know the team is going through a rough patch, but it's as if folks didn't watch what actually happened around here. It's not a fluke. It's not a miracle.

 

[KuralySnipes]

Edmonton prize Lucic. Make him the centrepiece of a trade for Hall. I'd prefer to send Rask. But whatever makes it happen.

I wouldn't be in favor of that. Edmonton probably views Hall highly, and I think a Lucic for Hall deal would be lateral unless we get a strong + in return, which wouldn't make sense for Edmonton, because Hall is the best player in that deal. I like my original idea better because I think Edmonton would give us Marincin + 2016 1st (top 10 pick) + Perron + prospect for Lucic + Subban + draft pick or something like that, which I think would be worth it on our end and their end.

Rask's "struggles" this year have been widely exaggerated. He has given up soft goals from time to time, but honestly not anymore than last year. His faults are magnified x100 in this environment. Our D in front of him is vastly overrated. Chara has been out for most of the season, Seidenberg has been lackluster. Our only bright spot has been Dougie, who has shown his age at times this year. Trading Boychuk ended up being disastrous to the blue line. On top of that, though, the Bruins defense is still in the top half of the league (I think their 12th?). Rask an elite goaltender in the NHL, and if you are planning on winning anything in this league, you need an elite goaltender. Subban is not going to be ready for at least a couple of more years, as the goaltender prospects are hard to project (look at Hutchinson in Winnipeg, who knew he'd be that good, but the opposite could happen to Subban).

The Seguin trade was stupid at the time and colossally stupid now.

Even if you buy the idea that Seguin wouldn't "fit" here (I don't, I think that's code language for CJ being unwilling to find a long term role for an elite offensive player in his system), then you don't just give away a franchise player without getting a comparable franchise player or pick in return.

Edmonton seem to be having similar concerns about whether Taylor Hall "fits" in their organization. And yet, as incompetent as the Oilers are, just wait and see if they unload Hall for inferior assets.

Never. Gonna. Happen.

I agree with you. I'm saying at the time I thought it was a good idea. I have always been high on Loui Eriksson. He was my favorite non-Bruin when he was on Dallas. I still think Eriksson is misused here (not enough time on the 1st line, he is used as a 3rd line defensive specialist even though he has shown that he can put the puck in the net in the NHL), but unfortunately the fact he is misused here means the trade is a failure. Seguin will be a 50 goal scorer in this league (I figured that when we traded him), and we didn't get nearly enough for him. Fraser is a bust (I didn't expect much out of him anyway), while Smith is probably going to project as a good 3rd liner. Morrow may be good down the road, but obviously the return has not turned out for us.

Now we are in desperate need of a player like Seguin. Chiarelli pulled the trigger on a trade way too early, and I agree that arrogance had a lot to do with it. The Kessel trade turned out to work out, as they got Seguin and Hamilton in return, and they figured it would work out here too. In Behind the B Benning mentioned that trade and Raycroft as examples of why they are going to be right on Seguin, because they were right before. They were wrong and it's biting us in the ass. Knight's point about the drafting is the most obvious problem with this team. The only elite prospect in our system is Subban (it is too early to give that to Pastrnak, though I am a big fan of his and I think he'll be a special player). Khokolachev and Spooner are vastly overrated by this fan base, especially Spooner. Both have no future on this team with Bergeron and Krejci as our top 6 centers. We have seen little to none of Koko at the NHL level so I am not going to call him a bust.

 

[KuralySnipes]

Watch for yeti posted:

"I thought the Seguin trade was the right decision at the time and throughout last season, but man what a cluster**** that thing has become. The drafting has seemed to improve in recent years as Blidh, and Cehlarik look to be potential late draft steals (Hopefully?), but this FO drafting has been among the league worst for the past 5 or so years, it is ridiculous."

I was more or less on the same page...I was always a big seguin backer/defender and saw a lot of potential in him, but after his performance in the playoffs and the potential for the trade I felt it could work out for both teams. I still hope it does...but it looks bleaker as we go and the piss poor drafting is even worse and makes the situation worse

I just don't have as much faith in this team's ability to evaluate players...which is funny because I've been thumping for them to just load up for the draft for awhile now, I guess I'm hoping the draft is so good they can't possibly screw up


I agree their more recent picks seem to be better...but my worry is by the time they make an impact, we'll miss our second window with bergeron and that core getting older...Or worse, the guidelines for how you play here are so rigid, none of these guys fit in...


I like the identity they are trying to go for, I like the coach, but champion teams find ways to fit players with elite talent in

The Hawks and Kings have proven they are champions, the Bruins haven't been able to prove their model can work...needed miracles both times to get to the finals, and when they finally faced a good team that has its **** together there were no miracles left.

We can keep clinging to those past successes, what happens 5 years from now when it's more of the same ? Are we still going to say, "well they brought us a cup and finals...."

Time to be proactive and build this team the right way instead of clinging to old ideals that worked once but have been figured out. Montreal beats us all the time because they've figured us out, built their team to beat us, and everyone besides claude and co seem to see it...

Great post. I think it is time for us to stock up for this draft. Bergeron, Krejci, Rask and Hamilton are a great core to build around. Lucic probably brings back the most return in a deal. He should be the odd man out.

 

[KnightofBoston]

Holy crap this argument is ridiculous.
The last 4 seasons:
2010-11 Won Stanley Cup Final, 1st in division
2011-12 playoff exit, 1st in division
2012-13 Conference winner, lost Stanley Cup in 6 games, 2nd in division
2013-14 playoff exit, 1st in division, president's cup

That has been a damn amazing run. Something they've been doing has been working. There is one (arguably 2) team out of the league that has done better.
It's not just Tim Thomas. It's not just picking up a guy at the trade deadline. They've played well. Incredibly well. The system has been working. Who did the Hawks pick up in mid 2012/13 that made heir team? No one, they were just a crazy good team who was slightly better than the Bruins.

I know the team is going through a rough patch, but it's as if folks didn't watch what actually happened around here. It's not a fluke. It's not a miracle.

I don't buy it was all thomas in 2011 and they had a great team in 2013, but i think it's foolish to look at past success and assume things will come around. The team is getting older, they have nothing to show for the last chunk of drafts, and it's all culminating. You don't win cups by assuming what has worked in the past will work again and lauding how close you got. You win cups by being proactive and accurately assessing what your team needs now and for the next few seasons.

And spare me the president's cup stuff. That just makes me more angry they didn't do anything of note when it actually matters.

 

[Dupell6]

If the losing continues I hope management has the balls to blow it up everyone should obviously be available for the right place but I would be only reluctant to trade bergy and dougie

 

[Ice Nine]

I read your analysis the first time

There's no way seguin will do that poorly, but if I had to bet money on him being the player he is in the regular season, in the playoffs, I wouldn't because I wouldn't be confident in that happening.

Fair enough. My analysis does have the benefit of hindsight, but it will be interesting to see how he performs once Dallas gets the D in order and make the playoffs.

 

[Over the volcano]

Seguin's 2012-2013 playoff performance was a statistical anomaly that would not, and will not, happen again. Otherwise, he was leading the Bruins in goals and points, or competing therefore, by the end of his first full season and also his second, including the 2011-2012 playoffs.

See my analysis here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=94602909&postcount=178

It already happened again last year in the playoffs for Dallas.


It's time to let it go, let it go. . .

 

[Dr Quincy]

Bergeron, Rask, Krug for O'Reilly, Varlamov, Barrie.

Lol.

I hope that really is a joke. I live every Bruins piece there better than its Colorado counterpart.

I also think (and I can't believe I'm saying this) that people are selling too low on Lucic.

 

[LSCII]

I'd like to see them move on from Julien and Chiarelli. At this point, I truly believe that tandem is holding the team back and cause for most of the impediments they face. Or self created ********, if I wasn't being clear. PC choosing the wrong guys to overextend on and giving out NTC's for ***** and giggles, and Julien for not altering his system to fit the players he has, and for not being willing to even attempt to work in some of their younger, higher skilled guys. **** both of these bozos. The cup win was great, but it's time for you two to beat it.

 

[BudMovin*]

I hope that really is a joke. I live every Bruins piece there better than its Colorado counterpart.

I also think (and I can't believe I'm saying this) that people are selling too low on Lucic.

Of course it is. Bergy is our next captain. Barrie is better than Krug though.

Now that you mention it. I'd give it an honest look if you switched Lucic with Bergy.

 

[Ice Nine]

I wouldn't be in favor of that. Edmonton probably views Hall highly, and I think a Lucic for Hall deal would be lateral unless we get a strong + in return, which wouldn't make sense for Edmonton, because Hall is the best player in that deal. I like my original idea better because I think Edmonton would give us Marincin + 2016 1st (top 10 pick) + Perron + prospect for Lucic + Subban + draft pick or something like that, which I think would be worth it on our end and their end.

Rask's "struggles" this year have been widely exaggerated. He has given up soft goals from time to time, but honestly not anymore than last year. His faults are magnified x100 in this environment. Our D in front of him is vastly overrated. Chara has been out for most of the season, Seidenberg has been lackluster. Our only bright spot has been Dougie, who has shown his age at times this year. Trading Boychuk ended up being disastrous to the blue line. On top of that, though, the Bruins defense is still in the top half of the league (I think their 12th?). Rask an elite goaltender in the NHL, and if you are planning on winning anything in this league, you need an elite goaltender. Subban is not going to be ready for at least a couple of more years, as the goaltender prospects are hard to project (look at Hutchinson in Winnipeg, who knew he'd be that good, but the opposite could happen to Subban).

All fair points, and agree Rask's struggles are linked to our D being worse this year (but that, actually, is a reason to trade him, IMHO, because his value is inflated by defensive system... he is good or bad depending on the guys in front of him).

I agree with you. I'm saying at the time I thought it was a good idea. I have always been high on Loui Eriksson. He was my favorite non-Bruin when he was on Dallas. I still think Eriksson is misused here (not enough time on the 1st line, he is used as a 3rd line defensive specialist even though he has shown that he can put the puck in the net in the NHL), but unfortunately the fact he is misused here means the trade is a failure. Seguin will be a 50 goal scorer in this league (I figured that when we traded him), and we didn't get nearly enough for him. Fraser is a bust (I didn't expect much out of him anyway), while Smith is probably going to project as a good 3rd liner. Morrow may be good down the road, but obviously the return has not turned out for us.

Now we are in desperate need of a player like Seguin. Chiarelli pulled the trigger on a trade way too early, and I agree that arrogance had a lot to do with it. The Kessel trade turned out to work out, as they got Seguin and Hamilton in return, and they figured it would work out here too. In Behind the B Benning mentioned that trade and Raycroft as examples of why they are going to be right on Seguin, because they were right before. They were wrong and it's biting us in the ass. Knight's point about the drafting is the most obvious problem with this team. The only elite prospect in our system is Subban (it is too early to give that to Pastrnak, though I am a big fan of his and I think he'll be a special player). Khokolachev and Spooner are vastly overrated by this fan base, especially Spooner. Both have no future on this team with Bergeron and Krejci as our top 6 centers. We have seen little to none of Koko at the NHL level so I am not going to call him a bust.

Hard to disagree that Eriksson is not being used in the best way here.

I also have no qualms with the Kessel trade because they got a significant return.

Drafting *has* been an issue, but it's difficult to determine if bad drafting is more of the problem or whether CJ's unwillingness to incorporate skillful, speedy, young players into his system is the bigger problem. The fact that Seguin was turfed for so little points to a latter issue. But yeah, drafting has not been good.