Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière: Part II

[Captain Monglobster]

Guys its the Rangers. Did you really think it was ever gonna work out for us? Do you know how many souls were sold jn June of 1994?

Seriously though, what are the odds that both are actually not as advertised? I still think theyll come around and be first line players, hopefully its with the Rangers.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

Put me in the category that doesn’t see an issue with Laf’s skating. If you watch him in person you’ll see he’s more than capable of flying out there. He’s not the best skater in the league, but I’d confidently classify him as a good skater.

I really believe those that think it’s a skating issue again just don’t want to admit that this organization has severe problems top to bottom. It’s the same as the “Kakko has too much muscle” argument. Did he have too much muscle when he was toying with NHL players at the World Championship?

 

[huerter]

Just rewatched the draft selection of Lafreniere.



"He's ready to contribute. You're going to get 60 points or more in his first season"
"He has an edge to his game"
"Skills, skating, power. He delivers it all for a team"
"He's physically, emotionally and mentally ready"
"This is a VERY special player"

It's still early days but it kind of stings watching this just a year later. First overall with all that hype and praise and here we are. I don't think anyone can be blamed for being disappointed.

That panel is donk city and their job is to be hyperbolic.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Put me in the category that doesn’t see an issue with Laf’s skating. If you watch him in person you’ll see he’s more than capable of flying out there. He’s not the best skater in the league, but I’d firmly classify him as a good skater.

I really believe those that think it’s a skating issue again just don’t want to admit that this organization has severe problems top to bottom. It’s the same as the “Kakko has too much muscle” argument. Did he have too much muscle when he was toying with NHL players at the World Championship?

They do say the camera subtracts 5mph

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

They do say the camera subtracts 5mph

I can’t tell if you’re serious or not, but if you are that’s actually fascinating and I didn’t know this lol.

 

[Rempe73]

I can’t tell if you’re serious or not, but if you are that’s actually fascinating and I didn’t know this lol.

I do think people look faster and quicker in person than on TV so maybe

 

[aufheben]

It's just frustrating to, after two previous top-10 picks walked away, now have two kids picked top-2 who were the consensus selections there, struggle as well.

I'm not expecting them to be McDavid-level. I just want them to be more than Nail Yakupov/Nolan Patrick level. Is that too much to ask? And I don't buy the "But we weren't a bottom team, we have better players" argument.

1. Laine, Svechnikov and Heiskanen were in the same position. A higher ranked team winning the lottery, and they didn't miss a beat
2. You can't really bring up the depth as something holding this team back when we have guys like Blackwell, Blais and Goodrow in the top-6 during their tenure.

Something is fundamentally wrong in this org and I just want them to fix whatever is causing this. It's not as if Kakko and Lafrenière didn't have any groundbreaking skill pre-draft. They just seem like different players, while others like Lundell, Raymond, Stützle, Zegras, Höglander, Cozens etc are playing (or are allowed to play) their own game. Whatever it is, it needs to be fixed.

Some players just step into the league and are immediately better than almost everyone else at one thing, like Laine.

Faulting the management is the easier way of dealing with disappointments, which is why I’m distrustful of it.

Edit: again I have to emphasize that I am not saying they won’t be good, or that they aren’t talented. I think they both have excellent skill sets across the board. My suspicion [hope] is just that their incline may be gradual.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

Guys its the Rangers. Did you really think it was ever gonna work out for us? Do you know how many souls were sold jn June of 1994?

Seriously though, what are the odds that both are actually not as advertised? I still think theyll come around and be first line players, hopefully its with the Rangers.

Why did yall sell your souls before I was born to see them win. Selfish bastards

 

[EdJovanovski]

Some players just step into the league and are immediately better than almost everyone else at one thing, like Laine.

Faulting the management is the easier way of dealing with disappointments, which is why I’m distrustful of it.

Edit: again I have to emphasize that I am not saying they won’t be good, or that they aren’t talented. I think they both have excellent skill sets across the board. My suspicion [hope] is just that their incline may be gradual.

It's tough because on one hand it is bizarre to have so many high draft picks not live up to expectations, let alone back to back top 2 picks. But on the other hand, our management and coaching staff are not telling them to be bad. If they could pick the puck up and deke around 3 guys and rush down the ice and score; they'd be doing it. Players still have free will when they step on the ice.

 

[LeprechauninBlue]

Will see if the break has done well on the kids. Hopefully they get both physical and mental coaching during the down time.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Its not the teams fault nor the players. They were just not all star ready at 19-20. Toronto didnt make Mathews score 4 in his first game. Edmonton didn't make McDavid any more than the were at fault for some lesser #1 picks. Some guys just mature differently than others. This is basically their floor. It is not their ceiling. I wanted more as well but we will just have to wait and see.

 

[KevinFinnerty]

I just re watched the goals and Trouba made a great pick on that Strome goal to make it a 2 on 1

 

[Zivkovic]

Its not the teams fault nor the players. They were just not all star ready at 19-20. Toronto didnt make Mathews score 4 in his first game. Edmonton didn't make McDavid any more than the were at fault for some lesser #1 picks. Some guys just mature differently than others. This is basically their floor. It is not their ceiling. I wanted more as well but we will just have to wait and see.

It's just ironic that a lot of the hype about Lafreniere was just how NHL ready he was. He was considered physically, mentally and emotionally mature. A big body with an edge to his game and ahead of his peers development wise.

He was expected to have an "easy" transition to the big league compared to his peers and many previous 1 OA picks.

 

[NickyFotiu]

It's just ironic that a lot of the hype about Lafreniere was just how NHL ready he was. He was considered physically, mentally and emotionally mature. A big body with an edge to his game and ahead of his peers development wise.

He was expected to have an "easy" transition to the big league compared to his peers and many previous 1 OA picks.

Well they were wrong. It is a huge jump both physically but mentally. The game speed is so different. To be fair to Laf nobody from the 2020 draft is producing much. In fact Laf leads in goals. We just have to be patient and hope his ceiling comes sooner than most.

I was hoping he might make a Brendan Shanahan type leap in his second year and this year is still young. It took John McClean 3-4 years as well.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Just rewatched the draft selection of Lafreniere.



"He's ready to contribute. You're going to get 60 points or more in his first season"
"He has an edge to his game"
"Skills, skating, power. He delivers it all for a team"
"He's physically, emotionally and mentally ready"
"This is a VERY special player"

It's still early days but it kind of stings watching this just a year later. First overall with all that hype and praise and here we are. I don't think anyone can be blamed for being disappointed.

It sucks. It really does.

You can make excuses all you want (Lord knows I have - and they could all turn out to be true)
You can say he's still young (he is, just turned 20)

But you can't change the simple fact that we have a 1Ov and 2Ov and they are not performing up to their draft status coming in.

Anyway you wanna cut it, its underwhelming & disappointing. Especially since this team has NEVER been lucky enough to draft that high, in all of the 95+ years they've been in existence.

It's not to say we can't be patient and they'll reach that level one day - but it still is completely justified if fans are disappointed.

 

[hella rights]

I’m wondering at this point if Laf would benefit from some time in Hartford. I don’t think he’s struggling from lack of skill, just doesn’t seem to be processing the game fast enough to really use it. Could be that’s he’s thinking a lot more now about the defensive side of his game and/or trying to incorporate the gallant grinding philosophy, but whatever it is it seems like his instincts aren’t translating. If that’s the case, wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world to have him go down and work on those aspects at a slower pace, hopefully he’d come back up playing more instinctual and confident (BTW might be helpful for Lundkvist too).

 

[Raspewtin]

did the entire hockey world get it 100% wrong on our top picks two years in a row, or were there other factors at play that were within our control?

I don't know, but I do know that the 1st one should not be the default explanation.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Well they were wrong. It is a huge jump both physically but mentally. The game speed is so different. To be fair to Laf nobody from the 2020 draft is producing much. In fact Laf leads in goals. We just have to be patient and hope his ceiling comes sooner than most.

I was hoping he might make a Brendan Shanahan type leap in his second year and this year is still young. It took John McClean 3-4 years as well.

As I point over to the left - to the strings division -

I am hearing myself whine: "Of course, what else is new. This is life as a Rangers fan" - when it comes to drafting 1st rounders.

But I try to suppress that and KNOW I have to be patient...

But dammit why do we HAVE to?

 

[NickyFotiu]

I’m wondering at this point if Laf would benefit from some time in Hartford. I don’t think he’s struggling from lack of skill, just doesn’t seem to be processing the game fast enough to really use it. Could be that’s he’s thinking a lot more now about the defensive side of his game and/or trying to incorporate the gallant grinding philosophy, but whatever it is it seems like his instincts aren’t translating. If that’s the case, wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world to have him go down and work on those aspects at a slower pace, hopefully he’d come back up playing more instinctual and confident (BTW might be helpful for Lundkvist too).

It might help bring his confidence up. It might not. It is worth the team thinking about though.

 

[NickyFotiu]

did the entire hockey world get it 100% wrong on our top picks two years in a row, or were there other factors at play that were within our control?

I don't know, but I do know that the 1st one should not be the default explanation.

This is not on the team. Some guys just take some time including high draft choices. Its a big leap in leagues.

 

[Raspewtin]

This is not on the team. Some guys just take some time including high draft choices. Its a big leap in leagues.

I don't believe this. Or at least I don't believe rushing to exonerate them. This team has had generations of being f***ing pitiful at developing forward talent. We've developed a grand total of 4 1st line forwards in the last 25 years, and all 4 of them even have arguments against them being first liners. Lafreniere hasn't just struggled, he's been absolutely useless for 70% of his NHL career. Kakko was an actively terrible player for almost half his career. This is not normal. This hasn't been normal. You have to go back long ways to find top picks this disappointing all things considered (not just their scoring line). Are we just the unluckiest org in sports?

 

[NickyFotiu]

I don't believe this. Or at least I don't believe rushing to exonerate them. This team has had generations of being f***ing pitiful at developing forward talent. We've developed a grand total of 4 1st line forwards in the last 25 years. Lafreniere hasn't just struggled, he's been absolutely useless for 70% of his NHL career. Kakko was an actively terrible player for almost half his career. This is not normal. This hasn't been normal. You have to go back long ways to find top picks this disappointing all things considered (not just their scoring line). Are we just the unluckiest org in sports?

Anyone that has taken a massive jump in league play can say how big a deal and increase in size and speed makes to their games. I barely got shots off when jumping from HS to college. Over 25 years there have been many NYR coaches and GMs. Do they all take some NYR poison and give it to players? The Oilers had their share of disappointments with high picks but McDavid blossomed. Mathews scored 4 goals in his first game. Did Toronto make that happen? No Mathews was ready. Just like Stepan was ready for the Rangers. The Rangers did not make Laf and Kap not ready. They are 20 years old. Most 20 year old forwards are not excelling. Its not about the team.

 

[The Sweetness]

Honestly if I didn’t know where this guy was drafted I’d think his ceiling is at best as a 2nd liner and I’d have guessed he is most likely to carve out a career as a middle sixer.

 

[will1066]

I just re watched the goals and Trouba made a great pick on that Strome goal to make it a 2 on 1

I feel if this team can still be successful by playing an E‐W game by the veteran core, then they should learn how to run pick plays that still remain legal in order to open up space.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Honestly if I didn’t know where this guy was drafted I’d think his ceiling is at best as a 2nd liner and I’d have guessed he is most likely to carve out a career as a middle sixer.

I understand your thinking because of his limited career so far but look at the 2019 and 2020 drafts. Do you see many other forwards excelling?