Traded Alex DeBrincat (signs 4 years, $7.875M AAV) for Dominik Kubalik, Donovan Sebrango, cond. 2024 or 2025 1st (DET or BOS), 2024 4th

[Xspyrit]

But… a brain’s defense mechanisms are to maintain sanity. Sometimes seeing what you want (or need) to see helps maintain sanity, even if distorted accordingly

Yeah, of course I'm not PHD in psychology even though I have some studies in that field but I see denial as working for a certain period of time as a defensive mechanism but I think it eventually brings that cognitive dissonance

He was their #1 Centre in Year#2's playoffs and nearly got them through to the conference finals. No one considered him an Anchor in years 1 to 3. Also he left because he saw the writing on the wall re: Rebuild. He's said that a few times.

Just because you don't like Spezz doesn't mean you should re-write his history.

I said "He was good the first year of that extension" meaning I was talking from 2016-17

2016-17 : 68 GP 15 G 35 A 50 Pts
2017-18 : 78 GP 8 G 18 A 26 Pts
2018-19 : 76 GP 8 G 19 A 27 Pts

He was making $7,500,000 AAV with a full NMC, a CAP % of 10.87% which today would translate to ~9.0 AAV

If that is not a massive anchor contract, I don`t know what is. 103 pts in 222 games for 27 M$, that's a 38 pts pace per 82 games. For comparison, Mathieu Joseph has 59 pts in 113 games with Ottawa, a 43 pts pace per 82 and makes 2.95 AAV. Spezza didn't bring any of Joseph's PK ability, speed, forecheck or anywhere near his defensive game.

And for the record, Jason Spezza was my 2nd favorite Senators of all-time until he left. I am not re-writing any history, I am simply going with the facts above.

 

[R2010]

Yeah, of course I'm not PHD in psychology even though I have some studies in that field but I see denial as working for a certain period of time as a defensive mechanism but I think it eventually brings that cognitive dissonance



I said "He was good the first year of that extension" meaning I was talking from 2016-17

2016-17 : 68 GP 15 G 35 A 50 Pts
2017-18 : 78 GP 8 G 18 A 26 Pts
2018-19 : 76 GP 8 G 19 A 27 Pts

He was making $7,500,000 AAV with a full NMC, a CAP % of 10.87% which today would translate to ~9.0 AAV

If that is not a massive anchor contract, I don`t know what is. 103 pts in 222 games for 27 M$, that's a 38 pts pace per 82 games. For comparison, Mathieu Joseph has 59 pts in 113 games with Ottawa, a 43 pts pace per 82 and makes 2.95 AAV. Spezza didn't bring any of Joseph's PK ability, speed, forecheck or anywhere near his defensive game.

And for the record, Jason Spezza was my 2nd favorite Senators of all-time until he left. I am not re-writing any history, I am simply going with the facts above.

In fairness, he signed in 2015. So year one was nearly PPG and PPG in playoffs. Year 2 was okay. Years 3 and 4 weren't great but also there was a bit of an impasse with the coach so you did see improvement later in his Toronto years.

I think if you sign a player for four years at a big ticket and they give you two really good years then you're disappointed it didn't last but also can't view it as an anchor. Spezza's contributions to that playoff run in 2015-2016 were pretty important to that team.

But agree I shouldn't have implied you didn't like Spezz. That's my bad.

 

[Xspyrit]

In fairness, he signed in 2015. So year one was nearly PPG and PPG in playoffs. Year 2 was okay. Years 3 and 4 weren't great but also there was a bit of an impasse with the coach so you did see improvement later in his Toronto years.

I think if you sign a player for four years at a big ticket and they give you two really good years then you're disappointed it didn't last but also can't view it as an anchor. Spezza's contributions to that playoff run in 2015-2016 were pretty important to that team.

But agree I shouldn't have implied you didn't like Spezz. That's my bad.

A guy getting 50 pts in 68 games for 9.0 AAV wouldn't be seen as an anchor today? It's factual, Spezza didn't live up anywhere close to his contract in 3 of the 4 years. Not his fault, he signed the contract he was offered. Dallas took a pretty huge risk by extending him. That's why nobody wanted to pay for more than a 1 year rental.

 

[Cosmix]

What Muckler started with (2001-02) :

Daniel Alfredsson (29)
Marián Hossa (23)
Martin Havlat (20)
Radek Bonk (26)
Todd White (26)
Mike Fisher (21)
Chris Neil (22)
Magnus Arvedson (30)
Shawn McEachern (32)
André Roy (26)
---
Zdeno Chára (24)
Wade Redden (24)
Chris Phillips (23)
Sami Salo (27)
Karel Rachůnek (22)
Patrick Lalime (27)

Prospects : Jason Spezza, Anton Volchenkov, Tim Gleason, Antoine Vermette, Brooks Laich, Greg Zanon,
Chris Kelly, Ray Emery, Christoph Schubert, Brandon Bochenski

What Muckler finished with (2006-07) :

Daniel Alfredsson (34)
Jason Spezza (23)
Dany Heatley (26)
Antoine Vermette (24)
Mike Fisher (26)
Chris Kelly (26)
Chris Neil (27)
Mike Comrie (26)
Peter Schaefer (29)
Patrick Eaves (22)
---
Wade Redden (29)
Chris Phillips (28)
Anton Volchenkov (24)
Joe Corvo (29)
Andrej Meszároš (21)
Ray Emery (24)

Prospects : Nick Foligno, Peter Regin, Brian Elliott, Erik Condra, Eric Gryba, Colin Greening, Brian Lee


1- Compare the prospect pool... It's normal that the pool became weaker as we were contending but how come the roster became much weaker?

2- yes the team made the SCF in 2007 but compare the pool of players between the beginning and the end of Muckler's era... All of Alfie, Spezza, Vermette, Fisher, Kelly, Neil, Redden, Phillips, Volchenkov and Emery were already in the organization...

IN : Heatley, Corvo, Meszaros, Foligno, Elliott

OUT : Hossa, Havlat, Bonk, White, Chara, Salo, Lalime

The Havlat trade stunk bad!

 

[Knave]

2003 we took the Stanley Cup Champions to game 7.
2007 we got beat up in the Stanley Cup finals. Fair enough the Ducks realized the referees weren't going to call everything.
2017 we took the Stanley Cup Champions to game 7 double OT.

I think Johnston, Muckler and Murray deserve some credit for the teams they inherited and managed to keep competitive. As we're finding out now it's not easy to get a competitive team. Our biggest problem is goaltending no doubt. But look at New Jersey regressing and then Detroit improving. Detroit could easily be New Jersey next year. It's tough to make enough right decisions to become and remain a perennial contender or you could be the Leafs and Oilers and win the draft lottery and get a generational talent. Maybe we'll be the Leafs and Oilers this year in the draft lottery.

 

[R2010]

A guy getting 50 pts in 68 games for 9.0 AAV wouldn't be seen as an anchor today? It's factual, Spezza didn't live up anywhere close to his contract in 3 of the 4 years. Not his fault, he signed the contract he was offered. Dallas took a pretty huge risk by extending him. That's why nobody wanted to pay for more than a 1 year rental.

9.0 AAV??

 

[Micklebot]

9.0 AAV??

if you account for the cap going up, Spezza's 7.5 in 2015 when he signed would have been about 9 mil in today's dollars. Maybe that's what he was getting at?

 

[R2010]

if you account for the cap going up, Spezza's 7.5 in 2015 when he signed would have been about 9 mil in today's dollars. Maybe that's what he was getting at?

Maybe. I think it's hard to say because it doesn't quite translate without the broader context. I don't love just using the % of cap to convert AAVs without considering how the league has changed. We're in the era of young players getting big money quick and older players not getting big contracts. Of Course Spezz' contract looks worse because of that.

 

[lancepitlick]

He seemed to back himself in to low leverage situations with every big trade he had to make.

Dorion needed to win immediately this season to keep his job. He couldn't afford to not get a deal done before the season started. Detroit and their GM could wait forver and knew this.

Dorion pretty much always backed himself into a corner with his trades. I can't think of a single time he traded from a position of strength. I guess Dzingel. That's pathetic over the course of 7 years.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Dorion needed to win immediately this season to keep his job. He couldn't afford to not get a deal done before the season started. Detroit and their GM could wait forver and knew this.

Dorion pretty much always backed himself into a corner with his trades. I can't think of a single time he traded from a position of strength. I guess Dzingel. That's pathetic over the course of 7 years.

He is natural grade A feces.

I also liked how Melnyk was used as the primary excuse as to why he was a bad GM when in reality he was just a bad GM all along

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

He is natural grade A feces.

I also liked how Melnyk was used as the primary excuse as to why he was a bad GM when in reality he was just a bad GM all along

Shocking revelation

 

[Xspyrit]

Maybe. I think it's hard to say because it doesn't quite translate without the broader context. I don't love just using the % of cap to convert AAVs without considering how the league has changed. We're in the era of young players getting big money quick and older players not getting big contracts. Of Course Spezz' contract looks worse because of that.

It's purely factual. All the other factors don't interfere with the fact that his cap hit took a specific % of the team cap.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I don't understand the hate he gets.

He was a mercenary who was acquired by Ottawa. The team never did their homework. They acquired a player without talking to them first. He presumably never lied to management about his willingness to stay. He didn't sign an extension and ask out.

Be mad at Dorion, not at Debrincat.

I suppose one gripe people can have is if they feel he didn't try hard enough last year, but even so, it wouldn't have mattered when it came to his trade value since he only wanted to go to one team - that was his right.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Dorion needed to win immediately this season to keep his job. He couldn't afford to not get a deal done before the season started. Detroit and their GM could wait forver and knew this.

Dorion pretty much always backed himself into a corner with his trades. I can't think of a single time he traded from a position of strength. I guess Dzingel. That's pathetic over the course of 7 years.

Absolutely. Usually dealing from a position of weakness.

The signs were there early on that he struggled even when not in a position of strength too. He called Zbad their #1 center of the future, then traded up for Logan Brown as his first move, then traded Zbad + 2nd shortly thereafter. Probably a safe assumption that the former supported the decision to move forward with the latter, but the value was still very bad for a budding #1 center.

I don't understand the hate he gets.

He was a mercenary who was acquired by Ottawa. The team never did their homework. They acquired a player without talking to them first. He presumably never lied to management about his willingness to stay. He didn't sign an extension and ask out.

Be mad at Dorion, not at Debrincat.

I suppose one gripe people can have is if they feel he didn't try hard enough last year, but even so, it wouldn't have mattered when it came to his trade value since he only wanted to go to one team - that was his right.

It seems like most do pin it on Dorion for not doing proper due dilligence. For the most passionate, I think the tribalism of sports comes in where he didn't want to be a part of their tribe but did want on a rivals. Didn't the players immediately drop him from their group chat too? Then there was the Greig hit and firey exchange with Tkachuk, so to me it seemed like the players themselves maybe took it a little personally.

 

[Alex1234]

I don't understand the hate he gets.

He was a mercenary who was acquired by Ottawa. The team never did their homework. They acquired a player without talking to them first. He presumably never lied to management about his willingness to stay. He didn't sign an extension and ask out.

Be mad at Dorion, not at Debrincat.

I suppose one gripe people can have is if they feel he didn't try hard enough last year, but even so, it wouldn't have mattered when it came to his trade value since he only wanted to go to one team - that was his right.

Player Discussion - Alex DeBrincat

So his excuse for not signing has been resolved. So what's his next excuse? Was that really an excuse? Although in any case seeing the price of FA's these days, I'm sure many fans would sooner move on from him than pay market rates.

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