Player Discussion Alex Burrows

BonHoonLayneCornell

Registered User
Oct 16, 2006
15,339
10,559
Yukon
I've been watching hockey for quite some time & it isn't all that long ago where that kind of incident would have been two minutes for roughing & in some instances I can remember the guy not fighting back also got two minutes. Ten games is outrageous & it was more about protecting the star player. Hall wasn't hurt in anyway by the incident, remember when they used to penalize the result more so than the incident? Burrows got hit, it pissed him off & he went after Hall. Burrows got a penalty & that's all he deserved IMO since Hall was out for the PP seconds afterwards. It was a nothing play compared to some of the stuff we see in hockey games, I've seen worse on the playground at school. The NHL is becoming such a suck hole league, soft as butter. :thumbd:

I still remember seeing Matt Cooke basically attempt murder on Marc Savard and that got zero games somehow. How many times do we see hits from behind head first in to the boards get nothing or only a couple games? It's just ridiculous at this point how much they factor in who is involved.
 
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I hope but do not expect the DOPS to apply this logic to all future similar incidents. Hall who is one of the better players in the game should not matter. The fact that the player was not injured should not matter. Instigating a fight should be a factor, as well as Intent to inflict an injury, whether with elbow, knee, stick or whatever. The DOPS needs to be consistent in its application of discipline.
 

BonHoonLayneCornell

Registered User
Oct 16, 2006
15,339
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Yukon
I feel like instigating a fight shouldn't be factored in at all since that would not warrant a suspension on its own. Why should it be factored in just because the guy did something stupid in addition to instigating a fight.

I mean, we see clean hits get fought over all the time, Neil used to just grab people and start swinging if they hit one of our stars with a clean check and he never got suspended.
 

Agent Zub

Registered User
Jan 2, 2015
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You guys are missing the point.

The suspension isn't because he decided to go after Hall for retribution. It's HOW he went after him.
 

Agent Zub

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Jan 2, 2015
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I feel like instigating a fight shouldn't be factored in at all since that would not warrant a suspension on its own. Why should it be factored in just because the guy did something stupid in addition to instigating a fight.

I mean, we see clean hits get fought over all the time, Neil used to just grab people and start swinging if they hit one of our stars with a clean check and he never got suspended.

Pre-meditation should absolutely be a part of it.
 

BonHoonLayneCornell

Registered User
Oct 16, 2006
15,339
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Yukon
Pre-meditation should absolutely be a part of it.

Yes and no. Why does it factor in now but not if Neil grabs a guy unwilling to fight and pummels him in the face after hitting Spezza with a clean check? In both situations its a person that doesn't want to fight being forced to fight but because he threw a couple soft knees while they're rolling around, it somehow matters all of a sudden?

I would at least agree if players were suspended (Obviously less than 10 games since the knees are what deserve the majority) any time they forced another player to a fight by just grabbing and swinging on them, but they don't. Neil did that to Glass just last year in the playoffs after a clean hit on Phaneuf, he should have gotten a game or two in that case *if there were games tacked on to this suspension because of the instigation*.

I don't care about Burrows getting 10 games if that was the track record established, but once again like all the suspensions they hand out, they reached in to a hat and came out with a number.
 

jbeck5

Registered User
Jan 26, 2009
16,309
3,293
Wait.....so if Dahlen turns into a Klepis does that mean we win the Burrows trade? :D Gotcha there!

Or...should we have gotten more for Klepis at the time based on his projection? #16 overall pick.

If burrows was a solid gritty 3rd liner for several years than yes. But that isn't burrows.
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,847
9,784
Montreal, Canada
Earlier this year Xspyrit or whatever it was called me biased and questioned my hockey knowledge because I called Burrows a replacement level 4th liner. Life comes at you fast.

Isn't that condescending? :sarcasm:

Let's look at what happened objectively. Here's what you first said :

"I'm not complaining. I think we're talking about interchangeable replacement-level pieces here, so it doesn't actually matter. Gun to my head, I might take DiDomenico over Burrows. I don't really mind having a pure offensive guy on the 4th line."

Here's my response :

"Not saying you were complaining but I'm really "surprised" when I read people saying that DiDomenico > or = Burrows...

To me that's pure bias, and it's certainly coming from the fact that Dorion gave a good prospect that we liked to get him and then paid him maybe a little too much (but after looking at other veteran bottom-6 forwards around the NHL, maybe not even by 500 K)

Regardless of the trade, contract and Burrows age, I don't see any reason to hate Burrows. He has been hustling hard, is solid defensively and even contributes offensively. At this point in his career, I think he's doing well. Maybe people were expecting too much from him since he was traded for Dahlen? I dunno but he has been producing at a 35 pts pace with the Sens in 40 games, with 13:43 of TOI/GP (also +7). Even the numbers say he's been doing well
."

And then you came up with this gem :

"lol, I'm not responding to this. Are you always this condescending?"

All I did there was saying that I was surprised to read that DiDomenico > or = Burrows... and then said that I THINK (so, my opinion...) that it is a biased opinion. At the time, Didomenico had 15 career games (and shown glaring weaknesses) while Burrows had a solid track record, including a 35 pts pace in his first 40 games with the Senators. Sure it went downhill after that with just 2 assists in 31 games while Dido has been doing decent, so now I wouldn't argue your opinion on it. But isn't the place to argue opinions?

Maybe if your reaction wasn't so emo, there would have been no problem? And now 3 months later you feel like bringing it back, presenting it in a way that it really wasn't in reality, attracting defamatory posts.

Well, I am really sorry if I have hurt you, but you have to understand that I don't control people's emotions. I am really not attacking anyone personally, just trying to talk hockey and argue opinions. You can be sure that I will more incisive on people who are disrespectful to players (who are real people too), because you know, I care a lot more about players that I have met or followed for a long time rather than complete strangers on the internet.

Note : I hope you don't keep resentment that long for such insignificant things in real life. Not good for health.

That dude blindly defends every move this team pulls, and then attacks people for saying other wise.

I guess what you do is probably better.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/140268955/

Notice the "HAHAHAHA" in caps and the brilliant "are you blind"? Or just the "dude" in the current quote?

Oh and by the way if you think that I have been "blindly defending every move this team pulls", then you must have not paid attention or just can't read properly. And I have always been criticizing, it's just that my way of criticizing is different than the often too common "xyz sucks, is garbage, is moron, is dumbass, etc."
 
Last edited:

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,847
9,784
Montreal, Canada
Stone: Burrows suspension 'a bit harsh' - Article - TSN

Well his teammates feel the same way I do. Deserved something for sure but 10 games is ridiculous.

"We're going to miss (Burrows), he's a great leader in this locker-room, good veteran guy and a guy that everyone really likes," said Matt Duchene. "He's a guy that we rely on for his character and his grit so we're going to miss him while he's out."

If only what players and executives/analysts think had a bit more weight on fans opinions...

Burrows did something stupid out of frustration, he jumped a notch like it was a street fight and got punished for it. 10 games might be too much or too less, it doesn't matter, season is lost for the Sens anyway and the league has to be more strict on suspensions than they have been in the past. It's a good thing because in the past, some even more dangerous gestures didn't get punished much if at all. If only they could be more consistent though...

That being said, it's sad how much hate Burrows has been getting in Ottawa. He was a HUGE fan favorite in Vancouver (sure it helps that he spent all his prime there on very cheap/reasonable contracts), and even in his decline years, fans were still supporting him. Very tough crowd in Ottawa (or maybe it's just HF?). I still think that the trade and extension heavily influenced the opinion on him (I also heavily dislike that trade and even the extension). You could see it through the stretch and playoffs where he was already getting hate despite having quite a positive impact on his team (relative to the expectations of a bottom-sixer)

That guy went undrafted and was never supposed to be anything more than a 4th liner. Very nice and kind guy off the ice, great personality, very charismatic. Sucks that he has to finish a "glorious" career like that (I repeat, he was not supposed to do much at the NHL level, at the time I thought he would be a cup-of-coffee 4th liner)
 

inthewings

Registered User
Jul 26, 2005
5,187
4,398
Isn't that condescending? :sarcasm:

Let's look at what happened objectively. Here's what you first said :

"I'm not complaining. I think we're talking about interchangeable replacement-level pieces here, so it doesn't actually matter. Gun to my head, I might take DiDomenico over Burrows. I don't really mind having a pure offensive guy on the 4th line."

Here's my response :

"Not saying you were complaining but I'm really "surprised" when I read people saying that DiDomenico > or = Burrows...

To me that's pure bias, and it's certainly coming from the fact that Dorion gave a good prospect that we liked to get him and then paid him maybe a little too much (but after looking at other veteran bottom-6 forwards around the NHL, maybe not even by 500 K)

Regardless of the trade, contract and Burrows age, I don't see any reason to hate Burrows. He has been hustling hard, is solid defensively and even contributes offensively. At this point in his career, I think he's doing well. Maybe people were expecting too much from him since he was traded for Dahlen? I dunno but he has been producing at a 35 pts pace with the Sens in 40 games, with 13:43 of TOI/GP (also +7). Even the numbers say he's been doing well
."

And then you came up with this gem :

"lol, I'm not responding to this. Are you always this condescending?"

All I did there was saying that I was surprised to read that DiDomenico > or = Burrows... and then said that I THINK (so, my opinion...) that it is a biased opinion. At the time, Didomenico had 15 career games (and shown glaring weaknesses) while Burrows had a solid track record, including a 35 pts pace in his first 40 games with the Senators. Sure it went downhill after that with just 2 assists in 31 games while Dido has been doing decent, so now I wouldn't argue your opinion on it. But isn't the place to argue opinions?

Maybe if your reaction wasn't so emo, there would have been no problem? And now 3 months later you feel like bringing it back, presenting it in a way that it really wasn't in reality, attracting defamatory posts.

Well, I am really sorry if I have hurt you, but you have to understand that I don't control people's emotions. I am really not attacking anyone personally, just trying to talk hockey and argue opinions. You can be sure that I will more incisive on people who are disrespectful to players (who are real people too), because you know, I care a lot more about players that I have met or followed for a long time rather than complete strangers on the internet.

Note : I hope you don't keep resentment that long for such insignificant things in real life. Not good for health.



I guess what you do is probably better.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/140268955/

Notice the "HAHAHAHA" in caps and the brilliant "are you blind"? Or just the "dude" in the current quote?

Oh and by the way if you think that I have been "blindly defending every move this team pulls", then you must have not paid attention or just can't read properly. And I have always been criticizing, it's just that my way of criticizing is different than the often too common "xyz sucks, is garbage, is moron, is dumbass, etc."

There’s no way I’m reading all of this, but I’m assuming the gist of it is ‘Sorry inthewings, I was wrong - you were right to call Burrows a replacement level 4th liner’.

Consider your apology accepted.
 
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Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,847
9,784
Montreal, Canada
There’s no way I’m reading all of this, but I’m assuming the gist of it is ‘Sorry inthewings, I was wrong - you were right to call Burrows a replacement level 4th liner’.

Consider your apology accepted.

:thumbu:

It's not a great thing that you were right because we're now stuck with another year at 2.5

Dorion has a willingness to make this team better but the Burrows trade doesn't help . What's the point in acquiring Burrows at the end of his career if claiming Paajarvi on waivers accomplishes the same? We end up paying him more and lost a good prospect (top-5 to top-10 in our pool)

Really not a fan of the goaltending situation as well. How to manage it now with those contracts who were too soon/too much?

Also never replaced MacArthur and Methot.

I'm probably just repeating but that's my summary of the situation
 

inthewings

Registered User
Jul 26, 2005
5,187
4,398
:thumbu:

It's not a great thing that you were right because we're now stuck with another year at 2.5

Dorion has a willingness to make this team better but the Burrows trade doesn't help . What's the point in acquiring Burrows at the end of his career if claiming Paajarvi on waivers accomplishes the same? We end up paying him more and lost a good prospect (top-5 to top-10 in our pool)

Really not a fan of the goaltending situation as well. How to manage it now with those contracts who were too soon/too much?

Also never replaced MacArthur and Methot.

I'm probably just repeating but that's my summary of the situation

MacArthur is a big one IMO. I don't think people give enough attention to how much that hurt. After the playoffs last year we all thought we had Mac back, and then he doesn't play a game - that's a legit 2nd line winger gone. He would have allowed everyone under him to slide down a notch to a role more suited to them.
 
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Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,847
9,784
Montreal, Canada
MacArthur is a big one IMO. I don't think people give enough attention to how much that hurt. After the playoffs last year we all thought we had Mac back, and then he doesn't play a game - that's a legit 2nd line winger gone. He would have allowed everyone under him to slide down a notch to a role more suited to them.

What has hurt this team the most this year :

Karlsson from recent years >>> Karlsson 2017-18
Goalies from recent years >>> Goalies 2017-18
Methot >>> Oduya/Claesson
MacArthur >>> no MacArthur (hole that has been for a few years now)
(somewhat) healthy Ryan >>> injury-prone Ryan
 
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