Player Discussion Alex Burrows

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

What has hurt this team the most this year :

Karlsson from recent years >>> Karlsson 2017-18
Goalies from recent years >>> Goalies 2017-18
Methot >>> Oduya/Claesson
MacArthur >>> no MacArthur (hole that has been for a few years now)
(somewhat) healthy Ryan >>> injury-prone Ryan

Agreed completely!

Some say Karlsson carried us last year, well he's barely capable of being a positive contributor this year let alone carry us.

Boucher has said numerous times that he needs a number one goalie to succeed, well this year he only has two guys playing like they don't belong anywhere near the NHL.

Methot was a bigger loss when you look at what he was replaced with. If we'd had a better stop gap it might have worked, but Clay and Oduya have not been nearly good enough.

Mac loss is huge, we all see it.

Ryan at least contributed around 22 goal, 55 point paces his first couple years but now he's either out of the lineup or playing injured it seems. He had a good first 6 or 7 games until an injury struck.

 

[Xspyrit]

Agreed completely!

Some say Karlsson carried us last year, well he's barely capable of being a positive contributor this year let alone carry us.

Boucher has said numerous times that he needs a number one goalie to succeed, well this year he only has two guys playing like they don't belong anywhere near the NHL.

Methot was a bigger loss when you look at what he was replaced with. If we'd had a better stop gap it might have worked, but Clay and Oduya have not been nearly good enough.

Mac loss is huge, we all see it.

Ryan at least contributed around 22 goal, 55 point paces his first couple years but now he's either out of the lineup or playing injured it seems. He had a good first 6 or 7 games until an injury struck.

Then just like my post! Gesus.

- Andy rode a very big emotional high last year and now that things are back to normal, he doesn't have this emotion to carry him into his 37th birthday

- Condon was always overrated to me. You have to pick up his starts and put him behind a good team defense. Can be a good back up under the right conditions and behind a good N.1

- A bit like with Burrows, Dorion was expecting too much with Oduya when he should be sheltered on the 3rd pair at this point in his career. Like you said in another post, players getting older can drop off a cliff real fast (remember Kovalev on his 2nd year in Ottawa?). Johnny was a huge contributor to the Hawks last Stanley Cup 3 years ago, but obviously isn't as good anymore. It was hopeful to think he could really replace Methot.

- We were also hoping that Claesson could be a good partner for EK based on last year sample size but if EK isn't as good as he was last year, it was also asking him too much.

- I have been missing MacArthur a lot for the last 3 years. That player was amazing to have on the 2nd line, played with pace and intensity, was very responsible defensively and had a decent amount of skill. Remember the MoToR line? (MacArthur-Turris-Ryan). Sad to see how fast things change and how injuries derail player's careers

- Ryan had the same PPG in his first 3 seasons in Ottawa : 0.69 (which is 57 pts per 82 games). We never really had a truly healthy Ryan in Ottawa except his first year where he had 18 goals, 18 assists in his first 42 games, then suffered an hernia. He was great in the 2nd season too with 17 goals, 32 assists in his first 60 games until he started having hand problems. Despite health problems, he started the 2015-16 season great too with 19 goals, 26 assists in his first 52 games but then started to have more hand/fingers problems

I dunno if you read that post before but it's interesting :

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/138411619/

 

[topshelf15]

Then just like my post! Gesus.

- Andy rode a very big emotional high last year and now that things are back to normal, he doesn't have this emotion to carry him into his 37th birthday

- Condon was always overrated to me. You have to pick up his starts and put him behind a good team defense. Can be a good back up under the right conditions and behind a good N.1

- A bit like with Burrows, Dorion was expecting too much with Oduya when he should be sheltered on the 3rd pair at this point in his career. Like you said in another post, players getting older can drop off a cliff real fast. Johnny was a huge contributor to the Hawks last Stanley Cup, but obviously isn't as good anymore. It was hopeful to think he could replace Methot.

- We were also hoping that Claesson could be a good partner for EK based on last year sample size but if EK isn't as good as he was last year, it was also asking him too much.

- I have been missing MacArthur a lot for the last 3 years. That player was amazing to have on the 2nd line, played with pace and intensity, was very responsible defensively and had a decent amount of skill. Remember the MoToR line? (MacArthur-Turris-Ryan). Sad how fast things change and how injuries derail player's careers

- Ryan had the same PPG in his first 3 seasons in Ottawa : 0.69 (which is 57 pts per 82 games). We never really had a truly healthy Ryan in Ottawa except his first year where he had 18 goals, 18 assists in his first 42 games, then suffered an hernia. He was great in the 2nd season too with 17 goals, 32 assists in his first 60 games until he started having hand problems. Despite health problems, he started the 2015-16 season great too with 19 goals, 26 assists in his first 52 games but then started to have more hand/fingers problems

I dunno if you read that post before but it's interesting :

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/138411619/

I hoping we may finally have another skilled grinder in White,its really why our top 6 cant keep possession in the ozone or struggles to move pucks out of the dzone.They cant win puck battles consistant enough..Would like to see another one in the fold tbh

 

[Ice-Tray]

I hoping we may finally have another skilled grinder in White,its really why our top 6 cant keep possession in the ozone or struggles to move pucks out of the dzone.They cant win puck battles consistant enough..Would like to see another one in the fold tbh

I think that's one of the reasons that Duchene and White together with Hoffman has been good. 2 guys to fight for the puck, 2 guys driving the net, 3 guys with speed, 2 guys who can score in close, 1 guy with sick hands, and 1 guy with a filthy trigger. There is more, but you get the point

 

[Mingus Dew]

Then just like my post! Gesus.

- Andy rode a very big emotional high last year and now that things are back to normal, he doesn't have this emotion to carry him into his 37th birthday

- Condon was always overrated to me. You have to pick up his starts and put him behind a good team defense. Can be a good back up under the right conditions and behind a good N.1

- A bit like with Burrows, Dorion was expecting too much with Oduya when he should be sheltered on the 3rd pair at this point in his career. Like you said in another post, players getting older can drop off a cliff real fast (remember Kovalev on his 2nd year in Ottawa?). Johnny was a huge contributor to the Hawks last Stanley Cup 3 years ago, but obviously isn't as good anymore. It was hopeful to think he could really replace Methot.

- We were also hoping that Claesson could be a good partner for EK based on last year sample size but if EK isn't as good as he was last year, it was also asking him too much.

- I have been missing MacArthur a lot for the last 3 years. That player was amazing to have on the 2nd line, played with pace and intensity, was very responsible defensively and had a decent amount of skill. Remember the MoToR line? (MacArthur-Turris-Ryan). Sad to see how fast things change and how injuries derail player's careers

- Ryan had the same PPG in his first 3 seasons in Ottawa : 0.69 (which is 57 pts per 82 games). We never really had a truly healthy Ryan in Ottawa except his first year where he had 18 goals, 18 assists in his first 42 games, then suffered an hernia. He was great in the 2nd season too with 17 goals, 32 assists in his first 60 games until he started having hand problems. Despite health problems, he started the 2015-16 season great too with 19 goals, 26 assists in his first 52 games but then started to have more hand/fingers problems

I dunno if you read that post before but it's interesting :

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/138411619/

Ryan gets a bit of a bad rap around here, for sure. Dude is pretty awful these days, but a lot of it has to do with injuries. Too bad because he was an exciting player when he first got here.

 

[pzeeman]

- A bit like with Burrows, Dorion was expecting too much with Oduya when he should be sheltered on the 3rd pair at this point in his career. Like you said in another post, players getting older can drop off a cliff real fast (remember Kovalev on his 2nd year in Ottawa?). Johnny was a huge contributor to the Hawks last Stanley Cup 3 years ago, but obviously isn't as good anymore. It was hopeful to think he could really replace Methot.

Very reasonable post! The only niggle I would have is that I really don't think JO was brought in as a Method replacement. Looking at his contract, and the incentives that were put in place, I think he was clearly brought in to be a depth option.

It's only when the internal choices to replace Methot pooped the bed, or when EK made a specific request, or when GB just couldn't handle the unpredictability of youth, that Oduya got those prime top pairing minutes.

 

[Silencio]

Ottawa overpaid for Burrows.

Calgary overpaid for Lazar.

You win some, you lose some.

 

[coladin]

Ottawa overpaid for Burrows.

Calgary overpaid for Lazar.

You win some, you lose some.

Dammit, you just summed it all up.

Now what do we talk about?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Dammit, you just summed it all up.

Now what do we talk about?

That would be a serious hit to the convo, that's been like every 3rd post for almost a year now.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Then just like my post! Gesus.

- Andy rode a very big emotional high last year and now that things are back to normal, he doesn't have this emotion to carry him into his 37th birthday

- Condon was always overrated to me. You have to pick up his starts and put him behind a good team defense. Can be a good back up under the right conditions and behind a good N.1

- A bit like with Burrows, Dorion was expecting too much with Oduya when he should be sheltered on the 3rd pair at this point in his career. Like you said in another post, players getting older can drop off a cliff real fast (remember Kovalev on his 2nd year in Ottawa?). Johnny was a huge contributor to the Hawks last Stanley Cup 3 years ago, but obviously isn't as good anymore. It was hopeful to think he could really replace Methot.

- We were also hoping that Claesson could be a good partner for EK based on last year sample size but if EK isn't as good as he was last year, it was also asking him too much.

- I have been missing MacArthur a lot for the last 3 years. That player was amazing to have on the 2nd line, played with pace and intensity, was very responsible defensively and had a decent amount of skill. Remember the MoToR line? (MacArthur-Turris-Ryan). Sad to see how fast things change and how injuries derail player's careers

- Ryan had the same PPG in his first 3 seasons in Ottawa : 0.69 (which is 57 pts per 82 games). We never really had a truly healthy Ryan in Ottawa except his first year where he had 18 goals, 18 assists in his first 42 games, then suffered an hernia. He was great in the 2nd season too with 17 goals, 32 assists in his first 60 games until he started having hand problems. Despite health problems, he started the 2015-16 season great too with 19 goals, 26 assists in his first 52 games but then started to have more hand/fingers problems

I dunno if you read that post before but it's interesting :

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/138411619/

Consider it Liked! lol

I am definitely in agreement with this post too. As much as Dorion has had some missteps, I don't know how he could have predicted all of the unfortunate things that have happened, and players seemingly falling off a cliff, like our goaltenders have. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills around here sometimes with the lack of blame falling on the goalies, that is the main factor in our collapse imo and Boucher was always up front that he wouldn't succeed if they played at a level like this.

-Agreed on Condon, that was the perfect case of a player overachieving that we should have walked away from considering the contract it took to keep him. Giving the extension to Andy early appears to be a mistake too unfortunately.

-I get the feeling that Dorion and Boucher had different expectations for Oduya. Boucher seemed to want him with Karlsson from the drop.

-Good point. Perhaps we havent been able to fill Methot's role as well in part because of the gigantic decline in Karls play this year.

-Mac was like the glue of the top 9. Could play anywhere, with anyone and played the game the right way. I was excited to have him back and that whole debacle at training camp started the year out with a thud.

-Ryan can still give something, we've seen it, that linked post helps demonstrate it... he just needs to be healthy somehow, someway.

 

[BondraTime]

He may be expecting to be bought out, and subsequently retiring this season. He has taken steps to move onto a new path with his start on the formation and running of the North American Ball Hockey Association, with the intent on making Ball Hockey an Olympic sport. He's the head honcho.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Ottawa overpaid for Burrows.

Calgary overpaid for Lazar.

You win some, you lose some.

k but.... overpaying for burrows was hard to do.

you can see why a team would give up a second for lazar at the time.

NO ONE thought a really good prospect plus a big extension was good for burrows (except dorion and whoever high fived him)

 

[Upgrayedd]

k but.... overpaying for burrows was hard to do.

you can see why a team would give up a second for lazar at the time.

NO ONE thought a really good prospect plus a big extension was good for burrows (except dorion and whoever high fived him)

Is it possible the high five was mis-interpreted by Dorion and was actually a blocked punch?

 

[BonkTastic]

He may be expecting to be bought out, and subsequently retiring this season. He has taken steps to move onto a new path with his start on the formation and running of the North American Ball Hockey Association, with the intent on making Ball Hockey an Olympic sport. He's the head honcho.

That's actually really cool. I love ball hockey, glad to see someone championing the sport and trying to do something with it.

I am also enthusiastically pumped about the "not playing for Ottawa next year" possibilities, don't get me wrong, but the ball hockey part is definitely a great thing for him to do in his retirement years, which hopefully have already started.

 

[Sensinitis]

That's actually really cool. I love ball hockey, glad to see someone championing the sport and trying to do something with it.

I am also enthusiastically pumped about the "not playing for Ottawa next year" possibilities, don't get me wrong, but the ball hockey part is definitely a great thing for him to do in his retirement years, which hopefully have already started.

Burrows was a pro ball hockey player before (if you can call it that, haha). Take a look at this article 6 Things: Burrows and ball hockey

He’s so right at the end about the whacking and hacking. Love friendly ball hockey personally but stopped playing competitive because of that. You have so much less protection than ice hockey, and yet it’s even more vicious with the sticks so it’s not really worth it imo.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Burrows was a pro ball hockey player before (if you can call it that, haha). Take a look at this article 6 Things: Burrows and ball hockey

He’s so right at the end about the whacking and hacking. Love friendly ball hockey personally but stopped playing competitive because of that. You have so much less protection than ice hockey, and yet it’s even more vicious with the sticks so it’s not really worth it imo.

Believe he is regarded as one of the greatest ball hockey players of all time, no joke!

 

[Sensinitis]

Believe he is regarded as one of the greatest ball hockey players of all time, no joke!

Yeah, he’s in the ball hockey HOF. Already played against him he’s very good.

 

[BonkTastic]

He’s so right at the end about the whacking and hacking. Love friendly ball hockey personally but stopped playing competitive because of that. You have so much less protection than ice hockey, and yet it’s even more vicious with the sticks so it’s not really worth it imo.

Totally agree, my wife is probably sick of the number of stories I've told about the crazy amount of hacking that goes on in ballhock. The worst are the 22-29 year olds who play with a chip on their shoulder like they never got a fair chance to make the NHL, like Brian Burke is in the (always empty) stands, ready to hand out a SPC to the next guy who can show him he has enough "truculence". Some kid who was cut from his Junior B team and is out to show the world what they are missing by not letting him play pro.

Reffing in ball hockey is always reeeeeealy greasy, too. Not suggesting anything like favoritism or anything, just that most refs aren't being paid enough to care, and let a lot of infractable offences go, so guys know they can get away with way more than they would if the games were being called as if the ref gave a crap.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Yeah, he’s in the ball hockey HOF. Already played against him he’s very good.

Cool was this recently or in his early days? if I remember correctly he was a star playing ball hockey and then broke into the NHL, I could be off completely on this as I read the article several years ago, I know the two big pro ball hockey teams are in Mtl and Toronto, the Red light and The Express? Anyways an interesting fact for sure!

 

[BonkTastic]

Yeah, he’s in the ball hockey HOF. Already played against him he’s very good.

Best guy I ever saw play ball hockey was Martin Havlat, who played in one of the local Ottawa leagues in the summer when he was a Sen. Our team played in a game after his (he was in the highest league, we weren't), and I watched the last half of that game before we went on.

You can appreciate how good guys like him are when they play in the NHL against other pros, but against a bunch of guys whose hockey careers peaked in Midget? Even going half speed, you could tell he coold have scored 15 goals if he'd wanted. It was like watching peak Jagr play a road hockey game against 9th graders.

 

[Zorf]

Burrows was a pro ball hockey player before (if you can call it that, haha). Take a look at this article 6 Things: Burrows and ball hockey

He’s so right at the end about the whacking and hacking. Love friendly ball hockey personally but stopped playing competitive because of that. You have so much less protection than ice hockey, and yet it’s even more vicious with the sticks so it’s not really worth it imo.

I was heavy into stupidly competitive ball hockey for years. I never wore shin pads. I referred to the roadmap on my shins as victory bruises. I also discovered that you got slashed more if you wore shin pads, so it was a calculated risk on my part. I once had a guy snap his stick in half on my shin. I felt like a ninja.
I used the ultimate ball hockey stick though. Old school aluminum shaft with a wood blade, preferably with fibreglass on the bottom. That bad boy is a good 20 years old and it's indestructible. I still use it to play street hockey with my kids. I made a fair number of people regret slashing me first when I got them back with that monster. haha.

The worst was when you'd get clipped with the toe of a one-piece stick though. All those little carbon fibre shards imbedded into your skin. It's no fun tweezing out those things.


Also, Burrows was a ball hockey legend back when I played, so I can confirm that.

 

[BonkTastic]

The worst was when you'd get clipped with the toe of a one-piece stick though. All those little carbon fibre shards imbedded into your skin. It's no fun tweezing out those things.

Oh yeah, especially when they've broken the toe a bit but taped it up and kept using the stick to save from having to buy a new one.

I remember pulling little slivers out of my arm once after getting tagged with a high stick from one of those guys.

 

[Micklebot]

Yeah, he’s in the ball hockey HOF. Already played against him he’s very good.

I don't know what I find more surprising; that Burrows is in the ball hockey HOF, or that there is a ball hockey HOF.

 

[DrakeAndJosh]

I stopped playing in Playon because it just wasn't fun anymore. Way too competitive and guys play like they're in the NHL.

 

[Micklebot]

I used the ultimate ball hockey stick though. Old school aluminum shaft with a wood blade, preferably with fibreglass on the bottom.

I recall those aluminum shafts in the NHL, always associate them with Anson Carter (I think it was him) because I think he held out the longest before switching away from them..