Kings Article: Alec Martinez Extension Might Be a Mistake

[Captain Mittens*]

But.....his magic jazz hand pixie dust!!! C'mon, he's underpaid for that alone!!!

I am glad that someone else gets it. Magic just happens. Like the salmon returning to Capistrano.

 

[KingLB]

Haven't read the article.....and only read the first couple posts following it. But....

This is a bad place to bring this up now, this board is always moves in complete group think. And currently Martinez is teflon.

 

[Herby]

Haven't read the article.....and only read the first couple posts following it. But....

This is a bad place to bring this up now, this board is always moves in complete group think. And currently Martinez is teflon.

Not sure I agree that this board moves in group think.

Look no further than you know who last year, you had a guy who was without question one of the 3-4 worst players on the team and there was and still is massive debate about him.

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

Not even gonna read article... would rather live in ignorance... we're the champs...**** him....

 

[Sheng Peng]

If there's no NTC, there's never any REAL mistake.

Fair point that I should've included.

Regehr is the superior defenseman, in my opinion. He's just isn't getting any younger.

Regehr is a case where management sees something that "analytics" people are clearly missing. I wonder if the Kings have proprietary stats that support their trust of Reggie?

But.....his magic jazz hand pixie dust!!! C'mon, he's underpaid for that alone!!!

This was probably the greatest celebration in Kings history. Though Daryl Evans's twirl was awesome. More recently, Sean Avery's push-up comes to mind!

 

[Captain Mittens*]

Not even gonna read article... would rather live in ignorance... we're the champs...**** him....

I wanna party with Scrivezina

 

[triplcrown]

It's happening all over...



News Flash:

Godzilla not actually
A-List Kaiju

Ghidrah Overrated

Xenomorph not actually that deadly,
experts say...

 

[Kingspiracy]

Not even gonna read article... would rather live in ignorance... we're the champs...**** him....

Exactly, **** him

 

[Sheng Peng]

I don't think this advances the argument for anybody either way, but somebody on my Twitter (and I believe, a couple of you in this thread) suggested that the Kings' record is much better with Martinez in the lineup. So I looked it up...avert your eyes, it's another chart

 

[MynameisKing]

I don't think this advances the argument for anybody either way, but somebody on my Twitter (and I believe, a couple of you in this thread) suggested that the Kings' record is much better with Martinez in the lineup. So I looked it up...avert your eyes, it's another chart

I'm not putting much stock in his early years cuz he was just a Kid still finding his way. I'd say his impact is felt for the last 2-3 years.

CUZ U KNOW Y??????




















He gained the MAGIC JAZZ HANDS that spews PIXIE DUST DOUBLE UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[I Am Ziggy Palffy]

Also, if you don't mind me asking, where in TW are you living? I was just there, visiting my wife's family in Taichung & mine in Zhudong.

No longer living in Taiwan. But was living in Taipei for awhile.

 

[Ron*]

Haven't read the article.....and only read the first couple posts following it. But....

This is a bad place to bring this up now, this board is always moves in complete group think. And currently Martinez is teflon.

Incredible.

Someone who doesn't read the article accuses those posters of "group think" (whatever the **** that means) who have actually read the article and gave a considered opinion on it.

Only on HFBoards.

 

[Muzzinga]

regehr is the superior defenseman, in my opinion. He's just isn't getting any younger.

must. Resist.

 

[Trolfoli]

Regehr.... Greene and Mitchell for that matter... they are a different type of defense then Martinez. The whole point of having someone like that on D is for the playoffs when you are playing a series to physically grind down your opponent. The Kings system is specifically set up to utilize larger/slower D. Now strength wise there is a huge difference between someone 200-210 and 230+ (assuming they are in shape)

The "advanced" metric they are using to judge a guy like Regehr is his ability to move someone like Chara when Boston plants him in front of the net on the PP.

 

[no name]

Strictly a statistical analysis. Stats tell a story but not the epic adventure. Wins, losses and team continuity. He is a bridge that makes the team remarkably better. He's 27. His comp is a Kyle Quincey player with cup wins under his belt. That's the going rate.

 

[Muzzinga]

The main thing about A-Marts advanced stats, and this is important, is that I love him, so i don't care

 

[Ron*]

The "advanced" metric they are using to judge a guy like Regehr is his ability to move someone like Chara when Boston plants him in front of the net on the PP.

What?

You mean there is no advanced metric specifically for that??? What a **** ty, lazy, useless system.

 

[kingsfan]

I am glad that someone else gets it. Magic just happens. Like the salmon returning to Capistrano.

And beer flowing like wine.

As for Martinez, I only have two questions.

1) Does anyone think he wouldn't have got this much or more on the open market? If MacDonald can get $5 million in Philly and Matt Carle can get $5.5 million in Tampa, Martinez can get $4 million minimum on the open market.

2) Barring a trade, does anyone think we can replace A-Mart for less next year? I doubt it. No one internally is ready for those minutes and responsibilities next year, especially if an injury or suspension occurs forcing them into a top four role, and we aren't going to replace A-Mart cheaper in UFA.

There's nothing wrong with the deal. Yeah, it's a bit pricy but I really hate articles that question a decision without making a suggestion of their own. What should they have done Sheng Peng? I assume you'd like them to either A) give him less money, B) replace him from within or C) replace him externally via a trade or free agency.

A and B likely wasn't an option, for the reasons I stated above, so that leaves option C. I assume you think there's someone likely to be available in FA (of which we don't know what the UFA crop will be and you yourself stated in the article its a lean UFA crop currently, likely to only get leaner) or someone that we should trade for. What are we giving up in a trade to get a D-man of Martinez's ilk?

So what's your solution Sheng Peng?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Regehr.... Greene and Mitchell for that matter... they are a different type of defense then Martinez. The whole point of having someone like that on D is for the playoffs when you are playing a series to physically grind down your opponent. The Kings system is specifically set up to utilize larger/slower D. Now strength wise there is a huge difference between someone 200-210 and 230+ (assuming they are in shape)

The "advanced" metric they are using to judge a guy like Regehr is his ability to move someone like Chara when Boston plants him in front of the net on the PP.

To be fair I think most acknowledge the limitations of advanced metrics when analyzing defensive defenseman. You'll never see a guy like Regehr, Greene, Mitchell, Scuderi doing anything of significance by those measures (unless you're trying to evaluate more subjective things like shot quality suppression etc.), yet a team that uses analytics heavily as the Kings have admitted to doing regularly seeks and employs big-bodied hitters and guys that are offensive blackholes (Lewis).

Not to mention people around here may forget that we're getting the currently-2014 model of Regehr and use that to form their opinion--the guy was considered one of the absolute best eraser shutdown-dmen in hockey for the better part of a decade. He's older and declining, but he's had a hell of a career--yet he's still a super-effective player for us.

How that relates to Martinez is he won't replace that type of player. Part of the luxury we have with Martinez was kind of the flexibility we have with guys like King and Lewis--though it's less than ideal, you CAN move them to any spot in the lineup and still get results, but in our best days, we're rolling him as arguably the all-around best #5 in the NHL. That IS worth paying for, imo, as silly as it sounds.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

And beer flowing like wine.

As for Martinez, I only have two questions.

1) Does anyone think he wouldn't have got this much or more on the open market? If MacDonald can get $5 million in Philly and Matt Carle can get $5.5 million in Tampa, Martinez can get $4 million minimum on the open market.

2) Barring a trade, does anyone think we can replace A-Mart for less next year? I doubt it. No one internally is ready for those minutes and responsibilities next year, especially if an injury or suspension occurs forcing them into a top four role, and we aren't going to replace A-Mart cheaper in UFA.

There's nothing wrong with the deal. Yeah, it's a bit pricy but I really hate articles that question a decision without making a suggestion of their own. What should they have done Sheng Peng? I assume you'd like them to either A) give him less money, B) replace him from within or C) replace him externally via a trade or free agency.

A and B likely wasn't an option, for the reasons I stated above, so that leaves option C. I assume you think there's someone likely to be available in FA (of which we don't know what the UFA crop will be and you yourself stated in the article its a lean UFA crop currently, likely to only get leaner) or someone that we should trade for. What are we giving up in a trade to get a D-man of Martinez's ilk?

So what's your solution Sheng Peng?

I think that's a very fair criticism of the article. I loved the collection of info Sheng but I just didn't feel the premise/conclusion really lead to a "here's what we can'should do about it". Should his usage be different? Should he be replaced?

And to your questions god yeah Martinez would easily have gotten MacDonald money on the open market. Same general perceived talent level plus the bonus of being on a winning team. Martinez is not easily replaceable from within...not yet.

 

[Buddy The Elf]

If DL thinks he is worth $4M a year, he's worth $4M a year. $2M each hand.

 

[apadilla]

Statistics are overrated.

 

[cyclones22]

I think that's a very fair criticism of the article. I loved the collection of info Sheng but I just didn't feel the premise/conclusion really lead to a "here's what we can'should do about it". Should his usage be different? Should he be replaced?

And to your questions god yeah Martinez would easily have gotten MacDonald money on the open market. Same general perceived talent level plus the bonus of being on a winning team. Martinez is not easily replaceable from within...not yet.

I'm going to have to agree with you here. So should the Kings just have let him walk? Trade for someone else? Promote another defender? All of that has to be weighed into the decision making process.

One thing to take note of, although AMart's advanced stats aren't looking too hot for him right now, you might want to look at the goals scored for the Kings while he is on the ice and goals against per 60 minutes. You might see there why DL re-signed him to what he did.

 

[KingPurpleDinosaur]

Incredible.

Someone who doesn't read the article accuses those posters of "group think" (whatever the **** that means) who have actually read the article and gave a considered opinion on it.

Only on HFBoards.

he was commenting on the board, not on the article. So his opinion holds weight, chill.

martinez definitely took a hometown discount. supply is too short this offseason and he could have made $5 mil easy. but that doesn't mean he was a good signing. i actually thought we were going to lose martinez, but the slava incident made DL cover his bases. No way he could take the chance at losing 2 defenders in one year.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I'm going to have to agree with you here. So should the Kings just have let him walk? Trade for someone else? Promote another defender? All of that has to be weighed into the decision making process.

One thing to take note of, although AMart's advanced stats aren't looking too hot for him right now, you might want to look at the goals scored for the Kings while he is on the ice and goals against per 60 minutes. You might see there why DL re-signed him to what he did.

yep.

To tack on to what I said earlier, I remember having a few discussions with people about AMart's deployment and how he's 'sheltered' in relation to other defenders. I don't think that means he CAN'T play different minutes, as he's proving now to make my smile bigger, just that he's an advantage we have in depth over other teams. Being able to roll him out as a #5 doesn't mean he can't play with Doughty et. al., it just means our "bottom pairing dman" can contribute, just like our "number 4 center' (according to all the trade board selljobs) Richards can.