AHL West in 2015-16?

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Cleveland Gladiators are a second tenant already, are they not? Or does it require x amount of games to count?

THE Arena League is a different entity, but they are a 3rd tenant or lower, since the Monsters have to wait for the NBA Schedule, to lock their dates in firm... the Gladiators play before these two seasons intersect, but they weren't always a Cleveland based franchise, Jn, they were the NJ Red Dogs, then assumed the Gladiators name before relocating to Las Vegas for 4 seasons, before Gilbert brought them there in 2008, the current Sharks were already the 2nd tenant by the time the Gladiators arrived.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

The Blazers' last season in OKC coincided with the first season of the OKC Thunder. I'd foster a guess that the presence of the NBA down the street had more to do with the decline in attendance than anything else.

no, because Cox Convention Center aka the Myriad existed..... the difference in OKC is the Thunder won exclusivity rights to their arena, the Blazers and its ownership turned them over to the league, and Prodigal turned its attention to the Barons.

 

[Frank Booth]

Cleveland Gladiators are a second tenant already, are they not? Or does it require x amount of games to count?

From what I was told, and this was over 20 years ago, it has to be 30+ dates a year. Gladiators are 9 plus any playoffs. Their big problem will come in two years when the RNC takes over the building. Depending on the dates they will either have to go on a long road trip, find another venue (Cleveland State?), or perhaps go dormant for a year.

BTW, Hutch don't ever answer for me again. You were told in the past.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

From what I was told, and this was over 20 years ago, it has to be 30+ dates a year. Gladiators are 9 plus any playoffs. Their big problem will come in two years when the RNC takes over the building. Depending on the dates they will either have to go on a long road trip, find another venue (Cleveland State?), or perhaps go dormant for a year.

BTW, Hutch don't ever answer for me again. You were told in the past.

I think a natural fit would be for Columbus to affiliate with Lake Erie. Who does Columbus affiliate with now? They would be a target for acquisition.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

From what I was told, and this was over 20 years ago, it has to be 30+ dates a year. Gladiators are 9 plus any playoffs. Their big problem will come in two years when the RNC takes over the building. Depending on the dates they will either have to go on a long road trip, find another venue (Cleveland State?), or perhaps go dormant for a year.

BTW, Hutch don't ever answer for me again. You were told in the past.

btw, blame Wikipedia

 

[go comets]

I think a natural fit would be for Columbus to affiliate with Lake Erie. Who does Columbus affiliate with now? They would be a target for acquisition.

Columbus is with springfield

 

[Tommy Hawk]

Columbus is with springfield

So if Columbus affiliates with LE, then that leaves Springfield without and a target for acquisition. IIRC, hasn't both the Syracuse and Springfield owners been talking about losing money and lack of fan support in the past and threatened to sell the teams?

 

[Jackets Woodchuck]

From what I have read, the biggest issue in the attendance decline from the CHL to the AHL in OKC is the fact that they didn't like the idea of having a farm team instead of an independent. It sounds like NHL or USHL in terms of long-term potential success in OKC, and they may just prefer the USHL.

 

[CJNewman]

With LeBron James going back to Cleveland you have to wonder how this will affect the Lake Erie Monsters. Dan Gilbert owns both organizations and with Colorado rumored to be one of the teams moving west you have to wonder if their interested in selling. The fact is this will definitely have an affect on attendance for the Monsters and local interest in the team.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

With LeBron James going back to Cleveland you have to wonder how this will affect the Lake Erie Monsters. Dan Gilbert owns both organizations and with Colorado rumored to be one of the teams moving west you have to wonder if their interested in selling. The fact is this will definitely have an affect on attendance for the Monsters and local interest in the team.

No impact since Lebron was there before and he owned both.

 

[George Binks]

please let this happen, would actually like to see ducks prospects during games

 

[Shootmaster_44]

so are the Coyotes, what's your point, wildcat

this is why 2015-16 is ludicrous as it stands I can see 2018 or later based off arena leases

I also now don't see LA abandoning Manchester after 2016, after what they've accomplished there the lasst 3 seasons, either

I wish that the newcomers to this board here think and research before posting their opinions, even if they haven't seen some of these teams, tbth, because it's making those true AHL Fans defensive and cynical without knowing what the league or its teams are willing to reveal to their fanbases.

LA won't abandon Manchester. I assume it will a swap of AEG owned franchises. The Monarchs move to Ontario and the ECHL Reign move to Manchester. Since the Kings barely use the Reign for much beyond a goaltending prospect as a rule, having their ECHL affiliate in Manchester wouldn't cause a huge problem. Since I assume the affiliation agreements are signed with the franchise and not the city/arena, the Jets wouldn't have much say in where the Reign go.

As for those who say the AHL West could move into Seattle and Portland, it would never happen. The AHL and WHL have had a handshake agreement to keep out of each other's backyards so to speak. The Abbotsford Heat were the first salvo fired by the AHL at the WHL, so I believe that is why the WHL's Chiliwack Bruins were "forced" to move to Victoria. The whole saga of Chiliwack is a convoluted tale that essentially saw the Bruins forced by the league to move. The Canucks were looking at Victoria to place an AHL team, so the WHL fired back by moving there first.

 

[tank44]

LA won't abandon Manchester. I assume it will a swap of AEG owned franchises. The Monarchs move to Ontario and the ECHL Reign move to Manchester. Since the Kings barely use the Reign for much beyond a goaltending prospect as a rule, having their ECHL affiliate in Manchester wouldn't cause a huge problem. Since I assume the affiliation agreements are signed with the franchise and not the city/arena, the Jets wouldn't have much say in where the Reign go.

As for those who say the AHL West could move into Seattle and Portland, it would never happen. The AHL and WHL have had a handshake agreement to keep out of each other's backyards so to speak. The Abbotsford Heat were the first salvo fired by the AHL at the WHL, so I believe that is why the WHL's Chiliwack Bruins were "forced" to move to Victoria. The whole saga of Chiliwack is a convoluted tale that essentially saw the Bruins forced by the league to move. The Canucks were looking at Victoria to place an AHL team, so the WHL fired back by moving there first.

Chilliwack moved to Victoria so that the WHL could be in the Victoria market when the ECHL team left and before an AHL team could move in. The Chilliwack/Abbotsford (20km apart) area is seen as a lesser market than Victoria.

Agree that no AHL team will really move into Portland or Seattle and if they do, the whole WHL US division will likely cease to exist.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I say that Kansas City should get an AHL team. Wild should've moved the Aeros there. Maybe the Jets once the lease runs out.
Columbus affiliates with Lake Erie.
Colorado brings the Colorado Eagles to the AHL.
San Jose moves the Worcester Sharks to Salt Lake City.
LA moves the Manchester Monarchs to Ontario.
Binghamton/Quebec's AHL team goes to St. Johns. But think that once Montreal moves the Bulldogs to Laval, that Hamilton gets an affiliate from either one of those teams.
Arizona brings an AHL team to Tuscon or New Mexico.
Anaheim brings an AHL team to Las Vegas.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

I say that Kansas City should get an AHL team. Wild should've moved the Aeros there. Maybe the Jets once the lease runs out.
Columbus affiliates with Lake Erie.
Colorado brings the Colorado Eagles to the AHL.
San Jose moves the Worcester Sharks to Salt Lake City.
LA moves the Manchester Monarchs to Ontario.
Binghamton/Quebec's AHL team goes to St. Johns. But think that once Montreal moves the Bulldogs to Laval, that Hamilton gets an affiliate from either one of those teams.
Arizona brings an AHL team to Tuscon or New Mexico.
Anaheim brings an AHL team to Las Vegas.

KC doesn't want an AHL team. I knew some of the people that were trying to bring an NHL team to KC and they said it was NHL or nothing.

Which AHL team is Colorado going to buy to move?

Who is AZ going to buy and I think they are going to wait until it i determined if they are staying in AZ since they have an out clause on the arena lease and will, in my opinion, exercise it.

Who is Anaheim going to buy and move?

Not sure what you mean by "Binghamton/Quebec's AHL team goes to St. Johns". Do you mean the Sens should move their affiliate to St. John's? They would have to buy it first.

The only teams we know for sure would only have arena leases restricting their move are SJ, LA, and Vancouver.

 

[adsfan]

KC doesn't want an AHL team. I knew some of the people that were trying to bring an NHL team to KC and they said it was NHL or nothing.

Which AHL team is Colorado going to buy to move?

Who is AZ going to buy and I think they are going to wait until it i determined if they are staying in AZ since they have an out clause on the arena lease and will, in my opinion, exercise it.

Who is Anaheim going to buy and move?

Not sure what you mean by "Binghamton/Quebec's AHL team goes to St. Johns". Do you mean the Sens should move their affiliate to St. John's? They would have to buy it first.

The only teams we know for sure would only have arena leases restricting their move are SJ, LA, and Vancouver.

I have heard the same thing 2nd or 3rd hand about KC since that arena was built.

 

[go comets]

I say that Kansas City should get an AHL team. Wild should've moved the Aeros there. Maybe the Jets once the lease runs out.
Columbus affiliates with Lake Erie.
Colorado brings the Colorado Eagles to the AHL.
San Jose moves the Worcester Sharks to Salt Lake City.
LA moves the Manchester Monarchs to Ontario.
Binghamton/Quebec's AHL team goes to St. Johns. But think that once Montreal moves the Bulldogs to Laval, that Hamilton gets an affiliate from either one of those teams.
Arizona brings an AHL team to Tuscon or New Mexico.
Anaheim brings an AHL team to Las Vegas.

I was told that the last ahl meeting they had on western movement, there were only 3 teams ready and willing to move. Apparently it was a very short discussion........

 

[axecrew]

I was told that the last ahl meeting they had on western movement, there were only 3 teams ready and willing to move. Apparently it was a very short discussion........

Told by whom?

 

[JungleJON]

Probably the janitor who worked at the place where they held the meetings.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

Told by whom?

Hutch??? Joking........

 

[wildcat48]

I don’t who he spoke with, but in my own conversations with a pair of AHL BoG members I can attest that the AHL western movement has hit a snag. My conversation varies from gocomet in the fact that there are no teams currently for sale and those NHL clubs – Coyotes & Ducks – that are looking to purchase a club undervalued the potential cost of purchasing a franchise. That was the heart of the conversation at the BoG meeting, which is why it was a short one because the AHL won’t consider anything unless there is a minimum five teams, preferably six. Right now, I’ve been told only Manchester and Worcester and OKC are in a position to pull up stakes next season. I’d add Glen Falls to that list as well, but I think they stay in the east for a couple years, likewise with Utica.

 

[axecrew]

Reason I asked is because I am willing and can name names....I ran into Lorne Henning while I was on vacation at , of all places, Santa Monica Pier. I asked him about this whole western movement and if he thought it would even happen. He told me that he thought it was going to happen in the next couple of years. Kinda jives with all the other comments we've all heard concerning a time frame. I also asked him about Vancouver's possible participation and he told me they were kinda locked into Utica for a few years, at which point I said that you know how easily those agreements can be broken. And that it just depended on how much money you were willing to spend to leave...he chuckled and said "true." Also said he wasn't a fan of trying to get out to utica to scout etc....he lives in s. california so he has to fly to chicago and then connect to syracuse etc. etc.
Lorne has always been straight up with me about things...my gut says he's right and that it'll happen in the next couple of years and that NHL teams will find the needed franchises from somewhere. Think about it...the coyotes tell portland that they are leaving after next year....no one else is willing to move into portland....what are they going to do hold on to what becomes a useless franchise or do they sell it and make money. Kinda easy to figure out in my book.

 

[wildcat48]

I’m not naming names out of professional courtesy to those who trust me with information…. You don’t have to worry about that. I do. It’s my profession – not being snide, just pointing out that I’m not afforded that opportunity. Those that I have spoken with told me this information on the basis that I wouldn’t blab their name all over the place and that I would keep parts of our conversation off the record.

Now, that all being said I don’t disagree with you. I still believe that the AHL will move westward in the next couple of years. I was simply saying that right now NHL teams that have to purchase an AHL franchise didn’t expect it to cost as much and those that had considered selling no longer have their team on the market. Why? I don’t know, but I can estimate they know the true value of the franchise both in its current location and if it was relocated. I also know that most of these owners don’t own a minor league franchise to make money. They do for many different reasons… love of the game, love of the city, giving back to the community or simply a tax writeoff. Again, in my personal opinion, I’m not really convinced all the western canadian teams want to move. It’s easy to see why LA, SJ, ANA and ARI want to be in the west, but those reasons don’t apply to the western canadian teams unless they move into markets such as VAN to ABB or Victoria etc.

(reasons don’t apply because western NHL team are not doing to player development. They are attempting to move for salary cap savings and real estate.)

As for Portland… I’m assuming you are use that just as an example. ARI is likely leaving at the end of this season hence the one-year extension. Cain’s ownership group is likely to find a new affiliate – which won’t be an issue because A.) OA Sports Center B.) Renovated arena C.) an ownership group that’s committed to the market and to the development of NHL players.

If you weren’t just using Portland as an example I would be more than glad to further explain why Portland is not for sale, nor will be for sale for the foreseeable future.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

KC doesn't want an AHL team. I knew some of the people that were trying to bring an NHL team to KC and they said it was NHL or nothing.

Which AHL team is Colorado going to buy to move?

Who is AZ going to buy and I think they are going to wait until it i determined if they are staying in AZ since they have an out clause on the arena lease and will, in my opinion, exercise it.

Who is Anaheim going to buy and move?

Not sure what you mean by "Binghamton/Quebec's AHL team goes to St. Johns". Do you mean the Sens should move their affiliate to St. John's? They would have to buy it first.

The only teams we know for sure would only have arena leases restricting their move are SJ, LA, and Vancouver.

Okay, so Kansas City is out of the question.

Colorado will use the Colorado Eagles, maybe do what Vancouver did and purchase an AHL team.

For Binghamton/Quebec I meant if Quebec gets a team their AHL team goes there. Or Ottawa moves the Baby-sens to St. Johns.

 

[sabrefan27]

Okay, so Kansas City is out of the question.

Colorado will use the Colorado Eagles, maybe do what Vancouver did and purchase an AHL team.

For Binghamton/Quebec I meant if Quebec gets a team their AHL team goes there. Or Ottawa moves the Baby-sens to St. Johns.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong or you simply don't understand. Ottawa can't just move Binghamton where they please, they don't own the franchise.