AHL West in 2015-16?

[Tommy Hawk]

Houston will NEVER get another hockey team unless it is an NHL team. They were tossed by the arena manager.

 

[Martin V]

I heard they are building a new smaller arena in Houston...

 

[Tommy Hawk]

You have a link to that? I doubt they will be building anything that would house minor league hockey. They do have several hockey facilities in the area but nothing like an arena to house an AHL team.

 

[Aero 75]

You have a link to that? I doubt they will be building anything that would house minor league hockey. They do have several hockey facilities in the area but nothing like an arena to house an AHL team.

A new 6,200 seat hockey arena is being built 30 miles north of downtown Houston in Montgomery County, Texas. The Montgomery County Event Center is scheduled to open in fall 2015.

Link:

http://grandtx.com/venues/montgomery-county-event-center/

 

[Tommy Hawk]

A new 6,200 seat hockey arena is being built 30 miles north of downtown Houston in Montgomery County, Texas. The Montgomery County Event Center is scheduled to open in fall 2015.

Link:

http://grandtx.com/venues/montgomery-county-event-center/

That is definitely not Houston...... They indicate it "will house a professional hockey team with seating for up to 6,200." My guess would be a CHL or ECHL type team. At one point in time Texas had more professional hockey teams than any other state.

 

[go comets]

AMERICAN HOCKEY LEAGUE - SEASON 2015-16

WESTERN CONFERENCE

PORTLAND (OREGON) FLAMES
ONTARIO KINGS
SEATTLE CANUCKS
SACRAMENTO SHARKS
SAN DIEGO DUCKS

Texas STARS
San Antonio AVALANCHE
Iowa WILD
Oklahoma City OILERS (may move to Bakersfileld eventually)
LAS VEGAS or HOUSTON COYOTES

Chicago BLUES
Milwaukee PREDATORS
Rockford BLACKHAWKS
Grand Rapids RED WINGS
Lake Erie BLUE JACKETS

EASTERN CONFERENCE

THUNDER BAY JETS
Rochester SABRES
Syracuse SENATORS
Toronto MAPLE LEAFS
Portland CANADIENS (may move to Laval eventually)

Lehigh Valley FLYERS
Wilkes Barre - Scranton PENGUINS
Hershey CAPITALS
Norfolk PANTHERS
Charlotte HURRICANES

Bridgeport ISLANDERS (may move to Nassau Long Island eventually)
Hartford RANGERS
Manchester LIGHTNING
Providence BRUINS
Albany DEVILS

gone: Utica, Adirondacks, Worcester, St Johns, Springfield, Binghamton and Hamilton

well thats never going to happen........

 

[Martin V]

well, at least I tried.

 

[adsfan]

"Adsfan":


Could you tell us what 3-4 teams would move out West 1st? Also in what cities they would play in??

How would you realign the Western conference, and their divisions??

Would travel costs go way up???

Thank you for your reply to my questions~~~~!!!!!!!!!

This is speculation, not any insider information.

The obvious answers would be the teams owned by western NHL teams who may or may not have expiring leases in the next 2 to 3 years. I would expect OKC, Manchester and Worcester to be in the group of teams relocating. Some other people seem to think that Portland will move. That would allow Utica another season or two before any relocation. The sixth team? Probably a surprise. I think that St John's is a possibility, only due to their remoteness. They sell out every game from what I hear. I am frequently surprised by teams moving, i.e. Flames, Heat, Chops and Aeros. It could work with only 5 teams.

Places to move to may include Ontario, CA (probably Manchester), San Diego, Portland, OR and Seattle. I don't think that Las Vegas will be a location. If those cities don't have suitable rinks, they can renovate or build a 6 to 8K or so seat arena in two or three years.

Trying to figure out alignment in the AHL is something that has puzzled me since 2001, when Milwaukee joined as part of the I6. Rochester in the West, Syracuse in the East, is an example. I know that the AHL has to draw lines somewhere, but those towns are 75 miles apart. The new cities would be their own division, much like the I6 was and for the most part still is. Providence and Utica could make 6 team divisions or the North Division changes conferences if 5 team divisions stay. It could by like MLB with a 6 team and a 4 team division along with some 5 team divisions.

Yes, I would expect travel costs to go up. However, some of that may be offset by moving St John's, which has to be expensive for anyone paying the bills. These western teams will probably play each other a lot, like 12 or 14 games a season for the closest cities. That is why pairs like Seattle / Portland and San Diego / Ontario are ideal. Crossing pairs would be another 10 or 12 games, making up to 38 division games. SD could play 2 games in Seattle, have a travel day, then play in Portland. Another travel day, then stop in Ontario for 1 game with a home and home series or 2 games in Ontario. That would conform to the current players CBA agreement to avoid any 4 in 5s. The Texas teams could travel to the west coast and play 2 games in a city. The Midwest teams would probably do the same. Iowa would probably join with the Texas teams and Charlotte. That would make 70 games by my count, needing 6 more. The AHL did the same thing for Abby and Winnipeg when they had teams.

 

[Martin V]

That is definitely not Houston...... They indicate it "will house a professional hockey team with seating for up to 6,200." My guess would be a CHL or ECHL type team. At one point in time Texas had more professional hockey teams than any other state.

The Texas Stars are playing in Cedar Park, 20 miles away from Austin. So, maybe a Houston team playing 30 miles from downtown Houston is possible too?
Just call them the LONE STAR COYOTES or whatever...

 

[ZekeA]

This is speculation, not any insider information.

The obvious answers would be the teams owned by western NHL teams who may or may not have expiring leases in the next 2 to 3 years. I would expect OKC, Manchester and Worcester to be in the group of teams relocating. Some other people seem to think that Portland will move. That would allow Utica another season or two before any relocation. The sixth team? Probably a surprise. I think that St John's is a possibility, only due to their remoteness. They sell out every game from what I hear. I am frequently surprised by teams moving, i.e. Flames, Heat, Chops and Aeros. It could work with only 5 teams.

Places to move to may include Ontario, CA (probably Manchester), San Diego, Portland, OR and Seattle. I don't think that Las Vegas will be a location. If those cities don't have suitable rinks, they can renovate or build a 6 to 8K or so seat arena in two or three years.

Trying to figure out alignment in the AHL is something that has puzzled me since 2001, when Milwaukee joined as part of the I6. Rochester in the West, Syracuse in the East, is an example. I know that the AHL has to draw lines somewhere, but those towns are 75 miles apart. The new cities would be their own division, much like the I6 was and for the most part still is. Providence and Utica could make 6 team divisions or the North Division changes conferences if 5 team divisions stay. It could by like MLB with a 6 team and a 4 team division along with some 5 team divisions.

Yes, I would expect travel costs to go up. However, some of that may be offset by moving St John's, which has to be expensive for anyone paying the bills. These western teams will probably play each other a lot, like 12 or 14 games a season for the closest cities. That is why pairs like Seattle / Portland and San Diego / Ontario are ideal. Crossing pairs would be another 10 or 12 games, making up to 38 division games. SD could play 2 games in Seattle, have a travel day, then play in Portland. Another travel day, then stop in Ontario for 1 game with a home and home series or 2 games in Ontario. That would conform to the current players CBA agreement to avoid any 4 in 5s. The Texas teams could travel to the west coast and play 2 games in a city. The Midwest teams would probably do the same. Iowa would probably join with the Texas teams and Charlotte. That would make 70 games by my count, needing 6 more. The AHL did the same thing for Abby and Winnipeg when they had teams.

"Adsfan":

Thank you for your relpy..............................

I am swamped this week with end of quarter stuff for trusts that I manage for family members children's college funds................

I can see the Kings moving to Ontario CA as they own an AHL franchise and the ECHL team in Ontario.........

Edmonton can move to Bakersfield as they own an AHL franchise and IF memory serves they own the ECHL Bakersfield team also..........

As for teams moving to Seattle and Portland OR, I have my doubts about that as that is WHL territory.

As for the Sharks they do own an AHL franchise but where would they play in CA?????? I will let you answer that as I have no idea~~!!!

Might be a bit harder for the Ducks as they do NOT own an AHL franchise................

As for Vancouver yes I guess they could move to
Abbotsford and make a go of it there, but travel for teams to get there and for them to go on the road is too dam expensive!!!!!!!!! They also own an AHL franchise.....

As for the Flames they do own an AHL franchise but where would they play in CA??????

Those 6 would have the most to gain by going West..... Key would be to have the Cities close to each other so they could travel by bus, air fare will drain a team in the AHL....................

Also the teams in the East will NOT travel out there just can't do it, only team that could afford it would be Hershey.......

Will try to add some more when I get some time feel free to comment.............

This is my take on this and is NOT to be considered fact in anyway as so many things would have to take place and things can change very fast today..........................

When I do read on this post that my team which I have been watching for 42 will be playing it's last season next year and they will be gone. Does NOT make me want to jump for joy by any means, but I try to realize some posters here have no idea what they are talking about..............

 

[Tommy Hawk]

"Adsfan":

Thank you for your reply..............................

I am swamped this week with end of quarter stuff for trusts that I manage for family members children's college funds................

I can see the Kings moving to Ontario CA as they own an AHL franchise and the ECHL team in Ontario.........

I do not think their owning the ECHL team has an impact. THey may want to keep the ECHL team where it is and put their AHL team somewhere else in the area. LA metro is a huge area.

Edmonton can move to Bakersfield as they own an AHL franchise and IF memory serves they own the ECHL Bakersfield team also..........

Not sure why Edmonton would want to move to CA. CA is just as far from them as OKC is right now.

As for teams moving to Seattle and Portland OR, I have my doubts about that as that is WHL territory.

Nothing says they can't both exist nor is there anything that says the ECHL and AHL couldn't exist in the same area, it just depends on the area.

As for the Sharks they do own an AHL franchise but where would they play in CA?????? I will let you answer that as I have no idea~~!!!

San Fran, Oakland, Stockton, Fremont, Sacramento, Redwood City. Half Moon Bay. There is not a shortage of potential places though there may be a shortage of acceptable arenas.

Might be a bit harder for the Ducks as they do NOT own an AHL franchise................

They can buy one or get a temporary license ala Texas while trying to purchase one.

As for Vancouver yes I guess they could move to
Abbotsford and make a go of it there, but travel for teams to get there and for them to go on the road is too dam expensive!!!!!!!!! They also own an AHL franchise.....

Travel for ALL the teams out west will be by air and depending on the airports may be expensive but it may still be economically acceptable for the NHL team. If you look at Abbotsford with the amount the city had to kick in, it was only $3-4 mil a year for one year. When they had better attendance numbers the amount was lower. That kind of money to some of these NHL teams is no big deal and the cost benefit is what they will review.

As for the Flames they do own an AHL franchise but where would they play in CA??????

Why would either the Flames or Edmonton put their AHL affiliate in CA? If they want close to home, Idaho or Montanan or even Utah would be possible landing spots.

Those 6 would have the most to gain by going West..... Key would be to have the Cities close to each other so they could travel by bus, air fare will drain a team in the AHL....................

Bus rides would be way too far. see above comment.

Also the teams in the East will NOT travel out there just can't do it, only team that could afford it would be Hershey.......

Teams in the east don't travel now so no difference to them, they would just play each other more and the teams in the midwest and the midsouth would have a more diverse schedule.

Will try to add some more when I get some time feel free to comment.............

This is my take on this and is NOT to be considered fact in anyway as so many things would have to take place and things can change very fast today..........................

When I do read on this post that my team which I have been watching for 42 will be playing it's last season next year and they will be gone. Does NOT make me want to jump for joy by any means, but I try to realize some posters here have no idea what they are talking about..............

The nature of minor league sports is teams come and go. Been there done that. Not fun or malicious but fact. There are 30 NHL teams that affiliate with 30 AHL teams. Until that changes it is a simple economic principle called supply and demand. There are more cities that want an AHL team than there are AHL teams so someone somewhere will get shorted.

 

[ZekeA]

I do not think their owning the ECHL team has an impact. THey may want to keep the ECHL team where it is and put their AHL team somewhere else in the area. LA metro is a huge area.



Not sure why Edmonton would want to move to CA. CA is just as far from them as OKC is right now.

"Tommy Hawk":

OKC does not draw well they would do better in Bakersfield.....

Nothing says they can't both exist nor is there anything that says the ECHL and AHL couldn't exist in the same area, it just depends on the area.

Not so sure on that as they try to avoid that territory.........

San Fran, Oakland, Stockton, Fremont, Sacramento, Redwood City. Half Moon Bay. There is not a shortage of potential places though there may be a shortage of acceptable arenas.

Lots of Cities but will they support hockey as so many diff things to do out there with better weather, unlike the East.....

They can buy one or get a temporary license ala Texas while trying to purchase one.

Maybe they could buy a franchise but how many are for sale????

Travel for ALL the teams out west will be by air and depending on the airports may be expensive but it may still be economically acceptable for the NHL team. If you look at Abbotsford with the amount the city had to kick in, it was only $3-4 mil a year for one year. When they had better attendance numbers the amount was lower. That kind of money to some of these NHL teams is no big deal and the cost benefit is what they will review.

With teams that are closer a lot cheaper to bus than fly. As AHL teams try to keep travel costs down, don't they??????

Why would either the Flames or Edmonton put their AHL affiliate in CA? If they want close to home, Idaho or Montanan or even Utah would be possible landing spots.

There again have to fly to those non CA Cities so more cost added.........

Bus rides would be way too far. see above comment.

Locate the teams closer easier on the travel budget......

Teams in the east don't travel now so no difference to them, they would just play each other more and the teams in the midwest and the midsouth would have a more diverse schedule.

With the teams in the East fans prefer to see the rivals from the East no real desire to see other teams........

The nature of minor league sports is teams come and go. Been there done that. Not fun or malicious but fact. There are 30 NHL teams that affiliate with 30 AHL teams. Until that changes it is a simple economic principle called supply and demand. There are more cities that want an AHL team than there are AHL teams so someone somewhere will get shorted.

Thank you for the economics 101 lesson. I always wondered how that worked, thank you for clarifying that for me.....

I had it stuck up my ass once here on a team so I hope the Hell it never happens here again................

As always feel free to comment.................

 

[MiamiHockey]

Not sure why Edmonton would want to move to CA. CA is just as far from them as OKC is right now.

For starters, attendance in Bakersfield has been about 30% higher than attendance in Oklahoma City.

 

[go comets]

Thank you for the economics 101 lesson. I always wondered how that worked, thank you for clarifying that for me.....

I had it stuck up my ass once here on a team so I hope the Hell it never happens here again................

As always feel free to comment.................

I can not see any ahl teams surviving in the north west whether its in the us or Canada. Its whl country and that's what the fans like and are used to. As a season ticket holder for the comets,I enjoyed seeing the western teams come in this year.we did not play any one from new england and one game against Bridgeport. There is nothing anyone of us can do about the western movement so why worry about it.......

 

[Tommy Hawk]

For starters, attendance in Bakersfield has been about 30% higher than attendance in Oklahoma City.

And the previous team in OKC was higher than the AHL team. Just because one league has good attendance does not translate to another league. Rockford attendance in the A is lower as well.

 

[MiamiHockey]

And the previous team in OKC was higher than the AHL team. Just because one league has good attendance does not translate to another league. Rockford attendance in the A is lower as well.

Really? I just look on hockeydb, and according to that data Rockford's attendance in its last UHL season (06-07) was 3895, went to 3826 in its first AHL season (07-08), and this past season (13-14) was at 4804.

You're correct in stating that it does not necessarily translate, but even if it dropped by 20% in Bakersfield, it would still exceed the attendance in OKC.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

Really? I just look on hockeydb, and according to that data Rockford's attendance in its last UHL season (06-07) was 3895, went to 3826 in its first AHL season (07-08), and this past season (13-14) was at 4804.

You're correct in stating that it does not necessarily translate, but even if it dropped by 20% in Bakersfield, it would still exceed the attendance in OKC.

So you took 1 season of Rockford's UHL attendance? And 2 seasons of the AHL for your comparison? Did you look at OKC's attendance before the AHL? And we know the attendance numbers are always fact. Fact is Rockford AHL is losing a lot of money where the UHL didn't.

 

[MiamiHockey]

So you took 1 season of Rockford's UHL attendance? And 2 seasons of the AHL for your comparison? Did you look at OKC's attendance before the AHL? And we know the attendance numbers are always fact. Fact is Rockford AHL is losing a lot of money where the UHL didn't.

That's 3 more seasons of attendance data than you used. Your contention was that their attendance decreased from the UHL to the AHL, and yet the data show a 30% increase over the past 8 seasons or so.

The attendance figures are supposed to be based on ticket sales. So, it's likely that the 1000 person increase in attendance is not matched by an additional 1000 people in the stands.

 

[Rumblick]

The attendance figures are supposed to be based on ticket sales.

Actually, in most cities it's based on tickets distributed. That includes comps, groups, employee passes, etc. There are any number of nights when the number announced wasn't close to the fannies in seats.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

That's 3 more seasons of attendance data than you used. Your contention was that their attendance decreased from the UHL to the AHL, and yet the data show a 30% increase over the past 8 seasons or so.

The attendance figures are supposed to be based on ticket sales. So, it's likely that the 1000 person increase in attendance is not matched by an additional 1000 people in the stands.

But it did drop. And Leagues measure attendance differently. I went to games the last coupe of years in the U and the first few years in the A and the place was empty in the first few years of the A. Have they improved recently? Sure but stanley cup champs helps the marketing.

 

[go comets]

Moving from one league to another may change the attendance depending on several items. The first would be ticket prices in my book....., team record, rivalry's, overall game experience, visiting fans for the opponents city. In the west those teams will be spread out so visitor teams fans will be minimal or none.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

Moving from one league to another may change the attendance depending on several items. The first would be ticket prices in my book....., team record, rivalry's, overall game experience, visiting fans for the opponents city. In the west those teams will be spread out so visitor teams fans will be minimal or none.

And team name as well. There was a huge backlash when they were going to change the Ice Hogs name. I know there were issues in OKC when they did not use the prior team name, Blazers.

And OKC was averaging between 8 and 9k per game until their last season when they knew they were going away. They dropped to 6500.

 

[MiamiHockey]

And team name as well. There was a huge backlash when they were going to change the Ice Hogs name. I know there were issues in OKC when they did not use the prior team name, Blazers.

And OKC was averaging between 8 and 9k per game until their last season when they knew they were going away. They dropped to 6500.

The Blazers' last season in OKC coincided with the first season of the OKC Thunder. I'd foster a guess that the presence of the NBA down the street had more to do with the decline in attendance than anything else.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

The Blazers' last season in OKC coincided with the first season of the OKC Thunder. I'd foster a guess that the presence of the NBA down the street had more to do with the decline in attendance than anything else.

The point is they dropped from 6500 their last season to the squat they have now. Success on attendance for one league does not necessarily translate to success in a different league.

 

[Jntg4]

I spoke with Len Komoroski not too long ago and he said that there is no way you would see Lake Erie not be in the AHL. The Cavaliers need to have a second tenant as per their contract with Cuyahoga County to run the building. Back in 1992 when the Muskegon Lumberjacks were planning to move to Cleveland they had an agreement in place with the Cleveland State convocation center, including adding ice. But at the last minute the Cavs swept in and they played two years at Richfield before moving to the new arena.
When the Jacks folded the Gund's bought the Thoroughblades and they became the Barons. After both the Cavs and Sharks were sold, the lease they drew up was a detriment to the Sharks, so off to Worcester they went. But as that was happening, Andrews was helping Gilbert and Komoroski buy the dormant Grizzlies, who then became the Lake Erie Monsters we know today. One thing he was a lot less forthcoming about is the affiliation with Colorado. They are not at all happy with the Avs and the fans are furious after six of seven years outside the playoffs. So the Avs might try to find another franchise to affiliate/and or buy. And not too many people in NE Ohio would be sorry to see the Avs go bye bye. If anyone has ever been to Quicken Loans Arena you would see how much Monsters' branding there is. The affiliation will (hopefully) go, but the franchise will be in Cleveland for a long time.

Cleveland Gladiators are a second tenant already, are they not? Or does it require x amount of games to count?