AHL franchise in Sioux Falls

[Fan of Many]

Sioux Falls, SD would be an outstanding choice for expansion or relocation. Last season, the Sioux Falls Stampede averaged 6,500+ per game in the USHL, which would have been top 10 in the AHL. They play in the new Denny Sanford Premier Center (capacity 10,678 for hockey). Geographically, they fit much better in the Central Division than Texas or San Antonio currently does.

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[CHRDANHUTCH]

Sioux Falls, SD would be an outstanding choice for expansion or relocation. Last season, the Sioux Falls Stampede averaged 6,500+ per game in the USHL, which would have been top 10 in the AHL. They play in the new Denny Sanford Premier Center (capacity 10,678 for hockey). Geographically, they fit much better in the Central Division than Texas or San Antonio currently does.

no owner or NHL Affiliate

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Sioux Falls, SD would be an outstanding choice for expansion or relocation. Last season, the Sioux Falls Stampede averaged 6,500+ per game in the USHL, which would have been top 10 in the AHL. They play in the new Denny Sanford Premier Center (capacity 10,678 for hockey). Geographically, they fit much better in the Central Division than Texas or San Antonio currently does.

No AHL team in their right mind would relocate there, the AHL wouldn't give Stampede Owner Garrity an expansion franchise, so there's not a chance. Just about every single team has their short-term future shored up and long-term planned out and they don't include Sioux Falls. AHL isn't about attendance anymore, it's about prospect development. Hence why there's only a few teams left that aren't either owned by their NHL affiliate or are close enough that the relationship won't change and none of them will consider Sioux Falls.

Texas is owned by Dallas and it's pretty short drive or flight from Austin to Dallas, so they're not going to change. San Antonio is a long term place holder while the Blues look for a location closer to home. It doesn't matter if it would fit the footprint better, Vegas loves having their prospects in Chicago literally right next to an airport with flights leaving every day making for easy call-ups. Sure they could buy an AHL franchise and put it in maybe Boise or somewhere geographically closer but call-ups are more difficult.

 

[JMCx4]

AHL in Sioux Falls is a non-starter. **IF** the Rapid City Rush had a more certain future, and the Colorado Eagles hadn't moved up, a Sioux Falls entry in the ECHL might have been worth considering. It's simply too remote for any higher league, and the local hockey fan base - whose representatives impressed the heck outta me with their contingent at the USHL Fall Classic in Omaha - is clearly happy with their current team. Please don't make wishes to ruin such situations for the sake of bringing pro hockey to a town.

 

[Nightsquad]

Oh my god, why would Stampede or any fans from The Sioux want an AHL club? Right now you have a good strong franchise with hometown leadership and marketing. You have great hockey talent, young men who when matured go on to solid NHL/AHL and DI careers. Your team also will be void of the "feeder" league revolving door for 2 to 4 years enjoying roster stability of players signed by your team to win games for your city. The AHL has lost its glory days luster, NHL clubs want AHL players at the ready for their needs. NHL owned AHL clubs arent in business for the sole purpose of winning for, or entertaining fans in AHL cities. The coach of the Colorado Eagles reinforced that philosophy to the media just before the start of the season. The AHL has sime future spectacular players yes, but todays AHL reminds me more of the NBA's G League, nobody will convince me otherwise. USHL, OHL, QMJHL, WHL, and NCAA DI are all excellent bang for your buck hockey. They are looking to entertain and develop talent at the local level, not NHL towns.

 

[Fan of Many]

Thanks for the replies and for shedding some light on this. If the AHL is inferior fan entertainment (even though AHL has more talent) as most of you have indicated, perhaps the USHL is still the way to go. I just wish the USHL was a league where teams draw at least 4K fans/game (or something like that).

 

[royals119]

I'm not saying it will happen, but why is it more impossible than Boise? Lots of people promote Boise as the eventual location of Seattle's AHL affiliate. Sioux Falls has a bigger, newer area, and better attendance. Boise has direct flights to Seattle, where it appears you would have to connect through Chicago or Denver from Sioux Falls, so Boise has a travel advantage for call-ups. Both are locally owned teams where the NHL owner would either have to convince them to buy the AHL expansion and affiliate like Colorado did, or the Seattle owners would have to buy out the local owner and own the AHL team.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

I'm not saying it will happen, but why is it more impossible than Boise? Lots of people promote Boise as the eventual location of Seattle's AHL affiliate. Sioux Falls has a bigger, newer area, and better attendance. Boise has direct flights to Seattle, where it appears you would have to connect through Chicago or Denver from Sioux Falls, so Boise has a travel advantage for call-ups. Both are locally owned teams where the NHL owner would either have to convince them to buy the AHL expansion and affiliate like Colorado did, or the Seattle owners would have to buy out the local owner and own the AHL team.

A lot of people on here are touting it as the home of Seattle's future AHL team, doesn't make it true. There's people saying that Saskatoon will be home to the next NHL on here, too. I can't find the article on it, but Idaho Steelheads owner has said that his model for attracting fans is based on the team getting results rather than developing prospects. It was a reason, not the main one but one among many, that the Lamar Hunt Jr. didn't team up with the Blues. The Colorado Eagles owner held off for a long time becoming an AHL team since he liked having complete control over the happenings, where you give up a lot if you're the AHL affiliate.

Thanks for the replies and for shedding some light on this. If the AHL and the ECHL are as inferior (for fan entertainment) as most of you have indicated, perhaps the USHL is still the way to go. I just wish the USHL was a league where teams draw at least 4K fans/game (or something like that).

As far as fan entertainment, it varies by market and by person. Some people/fanbases like seeing prospects developed for nearby NHL teams they also follow, like Providence-Boston, Cleveland-Columbus, Grand Rapids-Detroit, Texas-Dallas, etc. Others like Fort Wayne Comets fans are renown for having watched the team in minor hockey for decades and they want to see the team win. Yes, Sioux Falls outdraws every other team in the UShow. But, whether they do the same in minor pro is a gigantic financial risk that not a lot owners would be willing to take.

 

[Fan of Many]

It appears that being affiliated with the favorite NHL team of a minor league market is almost a must (see attached). The top fan draws in the AHL for the most part, are in close proximity to their parent NHL club. With that said, Boise is probably a better place for Seattle’s affiliate. The only AHL franchise that would be a good fit for Sioux Falls would be the Wild’s, but they appear to be doing well in Des Moines and probably won’t be leaving anytime soon.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

It appears that being affiliated with the favorite big league team of a minor league market is almost a must (see attached). The top fan draws in the AHL for the most part, are in close proximity to their parent NHL club.

With that said, Boise is probably a better place for Seattle’s affiliate. If Seattle put their AHL affiliate in Sioux Falls, I doubt the USHL’s Stampede would just throw their hands in the air and say, “we quit.” Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Stampede still out drew Seattle’s AHL affiliate. I just have a feeling that the only AHL team that could compete with the Stampede might be the Wild’s affiliate.

a prerequisite now requires an NHL Affiliation before approval of any proposed AHL franchise

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

It appears that being affiliated with the favorite big league team of a minor league market is almost a must (see attached).

16 of the 31 AHL franchises are directly owned by and are within easy access to their NHL team. About a dozen or so others are under different ownership but are operated in the exact same manner. There's not many that aren't and the number will decrease as the NHL makes it a standard after the success of the AHL Pacific Division move. Off the top of my head, I know Springfield Thunderbirds in Mass are pretty independent of the Panthers since the Cats have a pretty laissez-faire prospect development system. San Antonio is a long-term place holder, I think they have a 4-5 year agreeement, while the Blues look for a permanent location much closer to home. Chicago is the only other one I can think of that's still even somewhat independent, and that's because the Golden Knights' prospect pool isn't deep or old enough to stack a full AHL team.

And for attendance, are you talking about just for the division? Because Cleveland, San Diego, and Hershey all are pushing 10,000 people per game and there's a good number of others that are in the 7,000-8,000 range.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

16 of the 31 AHL franchises are directly owned by and are within easy access to their NHL team. About a dozen or so others are under different ownership but are operated in the exact same manner. There's not many that aren't and the number will decrease as the NHL makes it a standard after the success of the AHL Pacific Division move. Off the top of my head, I know Springfield Thunderbirds in Mass are pretty independent of the Panthers since the Cats have a pretty laissez-faire prospect development system. San Antonio is a long-term place holder, I think they have a 4-5 year agreeement, while the Blues look for a permanent location much closer to home. Chicago is the only other one I can think of that's still even somewhat independent, and that's because the Golden Knights' prospect pool isn't deep or old enough to stack a full AHL team.

And for attendance, are you talking about just for the division? Because Cleveland, San Diego, and Hershey all are pushing 10,000 people per game and there's a good number of others that are in the 7,000-8,000 range.

UH, Springfield has lobbied not once, but twice, and gotten franchises, Barclay, how exactly did Tucson get in, in 2016-17, because Arizona had the option to buy that franchise, that's not the same group operating Springfield presently

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

UH, Springfield has lobbied not once, but twice, and gotten franchises, Barclay, how exactly did Tucson get in, in 2016-17, because Arizona had the option to buy that franchise, that's not the same group operating Springfield presently

Not sure what your question is, Hutch. All I said is that the Thunderbirds operate relatively free of interference from the big club in Hollywood, FL. Generally existing for some purpose other than developing prospects is something rare for the AHL in its modern form and will continue to become less common. Not sure what the Falcons moving to Tucson has to do with it.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Not sure what your question is, Hutch. All I said is that the Thunderbirds operate relatively free of interference from the big club in Hollywood, FL. Generally existing for some purpose other than developing prospects is something rare for the AHL in its modern form and will continue to become less common. Not sure what the Falcons moving to Tucson has to do with it.

that is how THE Thunderbirds came to be....

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

that is how THE Thunderbirds came to be....

THE Thunderbirds came to be by 30 or so members of the Western Massachusetts business committee buying one of the few, if not the only, AHL franchise that they could to replace the void left by Charlie Pompea selling the franchise rights of the Falcons to the Arizona Coyotes ownership group, whose only intention for the team was to move them to Tucson, AZ. The ownership group specifically wanted an AHL team because Springfield has hosted an AHL team, in several different forms and teams, for something like the 2nd or 3rd longest time in the league behind Hershey and possibly someone else. So they acquired the Portland Pirates. Not sure what this has to do with Fan of Many proposing minor league hockey in Sioux Falls, SD.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

THE Thunderbirds came to be by 30 or so members of the Western Massachusetts business committee buying one of the few, if not the only, AHL franchise that they could to replace the void left by Charlie Pompea selling the franchise rights of the Falcons to the Arizona Coyotes ownership group, whose only intention for the team was to move them to Tucson, AZ. The ownership group specifically wanted an AHL team because Springfield has hosted an AHL team, in several different forms and teams, for something like the 2nd or 3rd longest time in the league behind Hershey and possibly someone else. So they acquired the Portland Pirates. Not sure what this has to do with Fan of Many proposing minor league hockey in Sioux Falls, SD.

you asked, Barclay, the Falcons themselves were created by the same process or a side deal and how exactly did Worcester acquire its initial franchise

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

you asked, Barclay, the Falcons themselves were created by the same process or a side deal and how exactly did Worcester acquire its initial franchise

Uh, the Falcons were an expansion franchise after the Indians left for Worcester. It wasn't a side deal. The AHL was and still is headquartered in the city and they had a vested interest in keeping an AHL team in Springfield. There wasn't even a plan to bring in a team until the league went to Landon and LaChance with a sweetheart deal.

I don't remember asking about anything relating to Worcester or Springfield, Hutch. The only thing I even said about Springfield was that they operate relatively independently of their NHL affiliate. And considering the current and future sole purpose for AHL teams will be developing prospects close to their NHL affiliate, independent operation wouldn't be something allowed to occur in Sioux Falls.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Uh, the Falcons were an expansion franchise after the Indians left for Worcester. It wasn't a side deal. The AHL was and still is headquartered in the city and they had a vested interest in keeping an AHL team in Springfield. There wasn't even a plan to bring in a team until the league went to Landon and LaChance with a sweetheart deal.

I don't remember asking about anything relating to Worcester or Springfield, Hutch. The only thing I even said about Springfield was that they operate relatively independently of their NHL affiliate. And considering the current and future sole purpose for AHL teams will be developing prospects close to their NHL affiliate, independent operation wouldn't be something allowed to occur in Sioux Falls.

TECHNICALLY, IT WAS A SIDE deal, Barclay, otherwise the Falcons do not exist, WERE YOU HERE in 1994, when the discussions about the Indians shifting to Worcester, how did you think Bruce Landon got to be where he was

 

[Crunchrulz]

While the league and their ever faithful hanger ons will refuse to acknowledge it, the quality of play is not what it used to be. Games can be very boring, especially when one team gets a decent lead. Used to be the time for things to get interesting, but with the two fighting majors in a game and ten fighting majors in a season rules, the league is going more the way of Euro style soft serve than traditional hard nosed North American. Add to that the very inconsistent quality of the officiating, especially by the referees, and old school hockey fans just shake their heads and remember the good old days of just five years ago. You seem to have a good thing going with your USHL franchise; continue to enjoy the ride and support the team as in this case, the ice is far from whiter on the other side of the boards.

 

[go comets]

I agree... The AHL level and intensity of play has dropped susbstantialy. Lots of boring hockey with little hitting ......

I can not remember another season of hockey as boring as this season.....

 

[adsfan]

While the league and their ever faithful hanger ons will refuse to acknowledge it, the quality of play is not what it used to be. Games can be very boring, especially when one team gets a decent lead. Used to be the time for things to get interesting, but with the two fighting majors in a game and ten fighting majors in a season rules, the league is going more the way of Euro style soft serve than traditional hard nosed North American. Add to that the very inconsistent quality of the officiating, especially by the referees, and old school hockey fans just shake their heads and remember the good old days of just five years ago. You seem to have a good thing going with your USHL franchise; continue to enjoy the ride and support the team as in this case, the ice is far from whiter on the other side of the boards.

That is my biggest hang up over the last 2 or 3 years.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

A lot of people on here are touting it as the home of Seattle's future AHL team, doesn't make it true. There's people saying that Saskatoon will be home to the next NHL on here, too. I can't find the article on it, but Idaho Steelheads owner has said that his model for attracting fans is based on the team getting results rather than developing prospects. It was a reason, not the main one but one among many, that the Lamar Hunt Jr. didn't team up with the Blues. The Colorado Eagles owner held off for a long time becoming an AHL team since he liked having complete control over the happenings, where you give up a lot if you're the AHL affiliate.



As far as fan entertainment, it varies by market and by person. Some people/fanbases like seeing prospects developed for nearby NHL teams they also follow, like Providence-Boston, Cleveland-Columbus, Grand Rapids-Detroit, Texas-Dallas, etc. Others like Fort Wayne Comets fans are renown for having watched the team in minor hockey for decades and they want to see the team win. Yes, Sioux Falls outdraws every other team in the UShow. But, whether they do the same in minor pro is a gigantic financial risk that not a lot owners would be willing to take.

I agree... The AHL level and intensity of play has dropped substantially. Lots of boring hockey with little hitting ......

I can not remember another season of hockey as boring as this season.....

The AHL will not go to Sioux Falls. Which franchise would be the one that moves? San Antonio is owned by the NBA Spurs owners to the AHL will be there to avoid pissing off the NBA owners.

There are not many teams that would be moving. Sioux Falls is a pain to get to making call ups difficult from a salary cap perspective.

And the AHL has become the most boring professional hockey league on the planet. This goes back about 16 years to when they and the NHL said development is the priority and severely restricted the veterans that can play in the AHL.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

The AHL will not go to Sioux Falls. Which franchise would be the one that moves? San Antonio is owned by the NBA Spurs owners to the AHL will be there to avoid pissing off the NBA owners.

There are not many teams that would be moving. Sioux Falls is a pain to get to making call ups difficult from a salary cap perspective.

And the AHL has become the most boring professional hockey league on the planet. This goes back about 16 years to when they and the NHL said development is the priority and severely restricted the veterans that can play in the AHL.

the veteran rule has nothing to do with that, you want to place blame it lies solely at the feet of Don Levin and the Wolves, tommy, why not abolish the folly that is the 3 on 3 shootout and who brought that into the AHL, Yup, Levin and his cronies from the IHL..... Want to bring back Independent teams, too, we can start with the Wolves

I can remember the days where veterans could be directly added from the European leagues and signed to AHL SPC's

 

[GrGriffins]

If Sioux Falls wants to leave the USHL and go into pro hockey, the ECHL would be their best fit. It is geographically fits with Rapid City, Tulsa, Kansas City, Wichita to the west, and the Midwest teams to the east. They are right in the middle. I do not see this happening, unless there is some talk over there of this might be happening (which I have not heard of).

AHL would not work as they are too close to the Iowa Wild and I do not see Seattle or any other NHL team wanting to put their AHL affiliate out there. Plus the arena in Des Moines is much larger seating capacity wise and newer.

 

[royals119]

The AHL will not go to Sioux Falls. Which franchise would be the one that moves? There are not many teams that would be moving.

With Seattle joining the NHL, the AHL will expand in the next few years. When Vegas came in they chose not to buy the expansion franchise, setting off a series of moves. Will Seattle do the same, causing another domino effect where more than one team changes affiliates, will they buy the AHL franchise themselves and own their team, or will they find a new AHL owner to buy the franchise and affiliate with them? Lots of possibilities out there. I agree Sioux Falls is probably not in the running, but some city will get a new team, and there might be other teams affected when it happens.