Don't take this as me coming into this thread to shit on anyone - I generally lurk in the shadows in this thread and prefer to read what more informed posters have to say.it's funny... I can think of several regular posters off the top of my head who certainly seem interested in this topic because any time you try to use even pretty widely adopted stats to argue for a player's value they are quick to completely disregard your argument and instead tell you how stupid your stats or "charts" are. Usually the response is a reasoned explanation of what the stats mean or why the information being conveyed is valuable.
These reasoned arguments are often met with wilful ignorance or outright disdain, but most often just a general unwillingness to even try to understand what these stats mean. After this back & forth a mod (usually you) will shuffle us off to a thread like this at which point the only people (with some exceptions) who show up to have a meaningful discussion are the people who already agree on the value of analytics. Meanwhile the people who started the shitstorm with their dismissive initial comments never bother to join this thread and engage in real discussion. rinse & repeat.
The point is that these arguments don't happen because guys like @MarchysNoseKnows are just dying to discuss analytics. They happen because they simply try to use the information available to them in a debate about players and someone else comes along and tells them how worthless that information is. how is someone even supposed to respond to that if they aren't allowed to defend their own hockey worldview?
So I guess my questions are these:
1. Why does it seem like people have free reign to make derisive comments about how stupid "fancy" stats are but as soon as someone tries to explain why they aren't, that's when the mods crack down?
2. do you think it's good for the board to isolate serious, thoughtful discussion about evaluating hockey players into its own thread that mostly gets visited by people who already agree?
3. the thread that usually gets "derailed" by these debates is the ongoing trade/rumors/speculation thread. Do you really think the discourse that is typically happening in that thread is worth preserving at the expense of the types of discussion you see just on the first page of this thread?
4. what exactly is the point of this thread? Is it a thread to discuss analytics as a concept? Or is it just the only thread where people are allowed to use analytics in discussions about players?
But speaking for myself, and probably for some others around here, some days you watch a game and just want to come on here and discuss how well _____ played or looked in a GDT or player thread without having to discuss data points and anamolies, which is why I myself dont join into this thread but just prefer to read.
I think analytics is a unique way of watching/understanding hockey, that as you touched on, most dont understand or simply don't want to understand which is why there is always disdain around here when threads are derailed a bit.
I'm sure Wally disagrees because of all the bickering that happens, but I appreciate the insight in various threads, we only grow as people and become more informed when opposite ideas are debated. I do wish more people who completely oppose analytics would come to this thread for meaningful discussion because there are some fantastic points in here (props to @GatorMike for his fantastic post earlier).