Abbotsford Heat in Financial Distress

[MarkGio]

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/A...payers+million+last+season/9359870/story.html

The Abbotsford Heat are on a four-season fiscal losing streak — racking up a $1.66 million deficit last season.

That’s according to financial data for the American Hockey League team released by the city of Abbotsford.

While the Heat’s balance sheet has improved — they lost $100,000 less than the previous year and saw attendance increase nearly seven per cent — the final score still puts taxpayers on the losing team.

To date, the city has spent $5 million in “supply fees.â€

Very informative article. Lots of money wasted by the City of Abbotsford and the team will always get its funds. Talks of the Canuck's organization purchasing the farm team broke down.

- Are the Flames making money on the backs of the Abbotsford residents? Or are the residents of Abbotsford kicking themselves because of their NHL allegiance to the Canucks?

Click to read more...

 

[Lunatik]

Misleading thread title and some misleading comments.

The Heat are not in financial distress because of the agreement with the City of Abbotsford.
The Flames are also not making money on the backs of the City of Abbotsford, they are having their operating losses covered.

This all stems from the city building an arena that didn't have enough support for a project that size (less than 55% of voters voted yes to the project), without a regular tenant for the building. The arena opened in the spring of 2009 after going bout $6.5 million over budget and when they hadn't been able to draw in a regular tenant then Mayor George Peary and his City Council got desperate.

The AESC and the agreement with the Heat are a major reason why Peary didn't get back into office in 2011.

The City of Abbotsford is a victim of a bad city council. This is on them and not the responsibility of the Calgary Flames.

 

[Skobel24]

Honestly, that team should never have gone to Abbottsford to begin with. I'd look at moving them to Saskatoon. The city is growing big time, and I'm sure they could support both an AHL team and the Blades.

 

[Lunatik]

Honestly, that team should never have gone to Abbottsford to begin with. I'd look at moving them to Saskatoon. The city is growing big time, and I'm sure they could support both an AHL team and the Blades.

The Flames would have been stupid to say no to Abbotsford. 10 year iron clad contract where the city pays all operating losses, you simply don't get a better offer than that.

People seem to forget this is a business and entering a business agreement with zero risk is about as perfect as you can get.

 

[Skobel24]

The Flames would have been stupid to say no to Abbotsford. 10 year iron clad contract where the city pays all operating losses, you simply don't get a better offer than that.

People seem to forget this is a business and entering a business agreement with zero risk is about as perfect as you can get.

I wasn't aware of the bolded.

 

[MarkGio]

Misleading thread title and some misleading comments.

The Heat are not in financial distress because of the agreement with the City of Abbotsford.
The Flames are also not making money on the backs of the City of Abbotsford, they are having their operating losses covered.

This all stems from the city building an arena that didn't have enough support for a project that size (less than 55% of voters voted yes to the project), without a regular tenant for the building. The arena opened in the spring of 2009 after going bout $6.5 million over budget and when they hadn't been able to draw in a regular tenant then Mayor George Peary and his City Council got desperate.

The AESC and the agreement with the Heat are a major reason why Peary didn't get back into office in 2011.

The City of Abbotsford is a victim of a bad city council. This is on them and not the responsibility of the Calgary Flames.

Your opinion.

Abbotsford resident and community activist Lynn Perrin stressed the Heat’s losses came on top of the city’s AESC expenditures. The facility was also subsidized by the city at $1.966 million in 2012, $2 million in 2011, $2.2 million in 2010, and $2.15 million in 2009.

All together, Perrin said, “it’s about $3 million a year coming out of our pockets to provide hockey for sometimes 1,500 people a game.â€

Money into Murray Edwards pocket is 5 million a year, while the taxpayers are at a loss.

 

[Lunatik]

Your opinion.



Money into Murray Edwards pocket is 5 million a year, while the taxpayers are at a loss.

Revenue =/= Profit. So no that is not money in Murray Edwards pocket, unless you actually believe that someone can run a professional hockey team for $700,000 per year.

The Heat are guaranteed 5.7 million per year in REVENUE. This number was based on estimated expenses, including paying for visiting teams to fly in and out of Abbotsford.

 

[MarkGio]

Revenue =/= Profit. So no that is not money in Murray Edwards pocket, unless you actually believe that someone can run a professional hockey team for $700,000 per year.

The Heat are guaranteed 5.7 million per year in REVENUE. This number was based on estimated expenses, including paying for visiting teams to fly in and out of Abbotsford.

And what is revenue minus expenses? You just said:

The Flames would have been stupid to say no to Abbotsford. 10 year iron clad contract where the city pays all operating losses, you simply don't get a better offer than that.

 

[MarkGio]

Here's an article from Flames Nation:

http://flamesnation.ca/2010/3/18/abbotsford-heat-dipping-into-public-coffers

Even a Flames fan is offended by the current agreement.

 

[MarkGio]

Another good article:
http://www.abbynews.com/news/176646551.html?mobile=true

The Abbotsford Heat will cost taxpayers $1.76 million for the 2011/12 season.

The city will pay the American Hockey League club that amount to cover its financial shortfall in the third year of a 10-year supply fee agreement, which guarantees the Heat annual break-even revenue of $5.7 million to play out of the Abbotsford Entertainment and Sports Centre (AESC).

 

[Lunatik]

Here's an article from Flames Nation:

http://flamesnation.ca/2010/3/18/abbotsford-heat-dipping-into-public-coffers

Even a Flames fan is offended by the current agreement.

Kent Wilson should not be allowed to be a source for anything. The guy if the biggest idiot around.

He is "offended" because it's a way to stir up drama, it's all he ever tries to do.


even better is the comments section which is a battle between the 2 biggest ass clowns that consider themselves Flames fans. Kent Wilson vs Dome Beers, what a classic battle of no wit

 

[Lunatik]

And what is revenue minus expenses? You just said:

And do you have profit numbers? The Heat would clearly be losing money if it weren't for the guaranteed revenue numbers

 

[MarkGio]

Kent Wilson should not be allowed to be a source for anything. The guy if the biggest idiot around.

He is "offended" because it's a way to stir up drama, it's all he ever tries to do.

And you should be a source instead? Its just folks presenting their opinions. Even journalists have opinions on things. Sounds like you're the one offended

 

[Lunatik]

And you should be a source instead? Its just folks presenting their opinions. Even journalists have opinions on things. Sounds like you're the one offended

Kent Wilson is not a journalist.

And yes anytime someone uses Kent Wilson as a source I am offended. Because it's insulting the intelligence of anyone that reads it.

 

[MarkGio]

Kent Wilson is not a journalist.

And yes anytime someone uses Kent Wilson as a source I am offended. Because it's insulting the intelligence of anyone that reads it.

I never said he was. I clearly said he was a fan.

You got to make your opinion known, and anyone is allowed to link a blog. Its no more offensive or insulting than yours or my opinion

 

[MarkGio]

Honestly, that team should never have gone to Abbottsford to begin with. I'd look at moving them to Saskatoon. The city is growing big time, and I'm sure they could support both an AHL team and the Blades.

I think Saskatoon is a better idea. But honestly, it would probably be for the best if Abbotsford was located in the Eastern part of the country.

Just look at the map of where all the teams are.

http://theahl.com/mobile/?bblh=mSafari&t=mobile_news_article&s=11579&p=

 

[Ace Rimmer]

This is what happens when Government gets involved in private business.

- Abbotsford City Government builds arena
- Calgary Flames farm team needs home after moving 3 times in 5 years
- Abbotsford needs a long term tenant for new arena
- Flames want a long term deal for their farm team
- Abbotsford signs the deal guaranteeing $5.7 million in revenue for the Flames farm team, over ten years
- Nobody goes to the games, costing Abbotsford up to $2 million (+/-) in revenue
- New arena is apparently not making enough in "other" activities (boat shows, etc.) to cover losses

So bottom line, Abbotsford made a bad decision, and now they're paying for it. Over time, maybe a fan base grows but for now, it's a money losing proposition and it will be for the remainder of the contract.

 

[tmurfin]

Oh man I would love it if they were in Saskatoon.. I'd be making trips every second weekend or so to watch games

 

[Guido Sarducci]

Misleading thread title and some misleading comments.

The Heat are not in financial distress because of the agreement with the City of Abbotsford.
The Flames are also not making money on the backs of the City of Abbotsford, they are having their operating losses covered.

This all stems from the city building an arena that didn't have enough support for a project that size (less than 55% of voters voted yes to the project), without a regular tenant for the building. The arena opened in the spring of 2009 after going bout $6.5 million over budget and when they hadn't been able to draw in a regular tenant then Mayor George Peary and his City Council got desperate.

The AESC and the agreement with the Heat are a major reason why Peary didn't get back into office in 2011.

The City of Abbotsford is a victim of a bad city council. This is on them and not the responsibility of the Calgary Flames.

The thread title is not at all misleading. The Heat are losing money.

The Abbotsford Sports and Entertainment center??? Really? They have a brand new stadium in metro Vancouver and they can"t even sell the naming rights. Who runs the place?

Ideally, the #1 tenant in the building should be the Comets(Canucks affiliate). The Heat generally sell out three or four games a season. Half of those are when the Nucks prospects are in town. They could have gotten the Canucks. They could have tried harder to get the NLL team. They could get better concerts. When you build a brand new building you NEED to book the right tenants.

There is a market for a brand new, seven thousand seat arena in Abbotsford. Absolutely. Bad city council? They made the right call. Get someone with a clue to run the building. Their business model sucks.

Personally, I think it is hilarious. The Flames have put their #1affiliate just outside Vancouver.(subsidized sixmill by the nice folks of Abbotsford) I think that the Alaska Aces should move to Leduc. Set up in enemy territory. And ram Flames Hockey down their throat. Take over the whole world. One city at a time.

 

[Volica]

Personally, I think it is hilarious. The Flames have put their #1affiliate just outside Vancouver. I think that the Alaska Aces should move to Leduc. Set up in enemy territory. And ram Flames Hockey down their throat. Take over the whole world. One city at a time.

Setting up your AHL affiliate right in the heart of your most disliked rivals... Doesn't make sense. I understand that it's close, so there's room for emergency recalls and the city of Abbotsford bent over backwards to get it... but didn't someone realize that you were flirting with failure from the get-go?
Clearly, Abby should have been Vancouver's team. Calgary should have really gone East-ward into Saskatchewan or looked into Med-Hat, Montana/Northern US.

I just quoted you because it truly is like we set-up:
The Leduc Heat, or St. Albert Heat; the Sherwood Park Heat... Ridiculous.

Bad model for people of Abbotsford, that ten-year contract is nice for Calgary, really sad for Abbotsford. Coming from a place I always like flying into from Calgary; I always go to Vancouver from Abby, I like it a lot more.

 

[Guido Sarducci]

I think Saskatoon is a better idea. But honestly, it would probably be for the best if Abbotsford was located in the Eastern part of the country.

Just look at the map of where all the teams are.

http://theahl.com/mobile/?bblh=mSafari&t=mobile_news_article&s=11579&p=

I half agree. The Heat should move. But I don't like Saskatoon.

Saskatoon is better suited for the WHL. Like you pointed out, just look at the geography. And really, WHL is an easier sell in Canada than AHL. I don't think Saskatoon could support the Blades and the Heat and if it's one or the other it should be the Blades.

If I were the Flames, I'd be talking to to Las Vegas. When the Flames had their ECHL affiliate in Vegas they led the league in attendance. The Las Vegas Wranglers had significantly higher attendance than the Omaha Knights. I'd go to a Heat game if I were in Vegas. Wouldn't you?

 

[Ace Rimmer]

The thread title is not at all misleading. The Heat are losing money.

The Abbotsford Sports and Entertainment center??? Really? They have a brand new stadium in metro Vancouver and they can"t even sell the naming rights. Who runs the place?

Ideally, the #1 tenant in the building should be the Comets(Canucks affiliate). The Heat generally sell out three or four games a season. Half of those are when the Nucks prospects are in town. They could have gotten the Canucks. They could have tried harder to get the NLL team. They could get better concerts. When you build a brand new building you NEED to book the right tenants.

There is a market for a brand new, seven thousand seat arena in Abbotsford. Absolutely. Bad city council? They made the right call. Get someone with a clue to run the building. Their business model sucks.

Personally, I think it is hilarious. The Flames have put their #1affiliate just outside Vancouver.(subsidized sixmill by the nice folks of Abbotsford) I think that the Alaska Aces should move to Leduc. Set up in enemy territory. And ram Flames Hockey down their throat. Take over the whole world. One city at a time.

The Heat are not losing money, because the good people of Abbotsford are writing them a cheque every year. It's semantics, but it's technically correct.

Do the Heat operate the arena as well? Or is the arena run by the City of Abbotsford? Because the rest of those issues have nothing to do with the Heat, if they don't operate the arena as well.

 

[Lunatik]

The Heat are not losing money, because the good people of Abbotsford are writing them a cheque every year. It's semantics, but it's technically correct.

Do the Heat operate the arena as well? Or is the arena run by the City of Abbotsford? Because the rest of those issues have nothing to do with the Heat, if they don't operate the arena as well.

My understanding is a management group runs the AESC

 

[J Murda]

I half agree. The Heat should move. But I don't like Saskatoon.

Saskatoon is better suited for the WHL. Like you pointed out, just look at the geography. And really, WHL is an easier sell in Canada than AHL. I don't think Saskatoon could support the Blades and the Heat and if it's one or the other it should be the Blades.

If I were the Flames, I'd be talking to to Las Vegas. When the Flames had their ECHL affiliate in Vegas they led the league in attendance. The Las Vegas Wranglers had significantly higher attendance than the Omaha Knights. I'd go to a Heat game if I were in Vegas. Wouldn't you?

Vegas has a couple problems of their own at the moment.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/blogs/ka...johnson-boyd-and-orleans-if-wranglers-are-no/

I say move 'em to Fort Mac. Makes about as much sense as Abby.

 

[Guido Sarducci]

The Heat would clearly be losing money if it weren't for the guaranteed revenue numbers

And that is according to you "about as perfect as you can get".

I dunno. I prefer a business model that can stand up on it's own. Rather than draw a perpetual welfare cheque.