Abbotsford Flames to Utica?

[Rocko604]

Went to the game on Friday. Answer I got was it is a local ownership group, but wasn't told just how much control the Flames have.

So if they are locally owned, Flames would have to buy out the franchise and move it to Utica. If they don't, but pull out of Abbotsford anyway, they have no franchise to affiliate with unless they buy and relocate another one.

 

[adsfan]

Seriously????????????????............................Seriously??????????????

Levin not owning the Wolves? Where'd you hear that juicy nugget? Funny.....A chicago tribune, chicago daily herald, and also a chicago sun-times article....(yes all 3 had articles) Don Levin was quoted as saying he has no intention of selling the Wolves and in fact was recently quoted in a different interview as saying he really would like to own an NHL team so that he'd have more control over players coming to the Wolves. That doesn't sound like a guy looking to get rid of the Wolves.....well maybe on bizzaro world it might.
Believe me.....my scenario has a much better chance at playing out before summer than a sale of phx and a move to an arenaless city in Seattle.

Calm down Axecrew! I still believe your scenario over Hutch's. The simplest plan always has the best chance of working out. I rarely read the Chicago papers, but I don't expect Don Levin to suddenly pull up stakes and move the Wolves to Canada. It is more likely that he buys a team or gets a future NHL expansion team for Seattle to affiliate with. As we all know, he can change affiliates without moving the Wolves!

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Calm down Axecrew! I still believe your scenario over Hutch's. The simplest plan always has the best chance of working out. I rarely read the Chicago papers, but I don't expect Don Levin to suddenly pull up stakes and move the Wolves to Canada. It is more likely that he buys a team or gets a future NHL expansion team for Seattle to affiliate with. As we all know, he can change affiliates without moving the Wolves!

adsfan:

I wouldn't trust anything coming out of a Wolves fan, bc they act like the corrupt politicians they elect( Jesse Jackson, Jr, and even Emanuel is the mayor of that city) why are the Wolves based in Chicago proper then, not some annexed portion/village like you constantly see in Canada....

Why is Levin's name rumored then w/ the Coyotes being an NHL franchise, if he was told they were off the table, you cannot rule that out, and we all know his name has popped up in Seattle, and that assumption is false, there is an arena in Seattle set to be built, it brings it up though, Will the Wolves be sold as a part to appease the conflict of interest, if you folks would educate yourself a bit, nothing is ruled in or out, how do you think Williams got in on the Jets'deal w/ the Ice Caps, once they acquired Atlanta.

 

[The Hutch]

There's one main issue I would have over Aquilini(sp?) coming in to Abbotsford. I know it's ownership versus affiliation, but where was this interest when the city was granted the franchise? Canucks turned down affiliation. Heat ownership went with who said yes, which was the Calgary Flames. I don't know the details of why this ridiculous ten year deal was agreed upon, it has cost the taxpayers a lot of money. A lot!

Arguably, the Canucks thinking affiliation in Abbotsford would be "bad for their business" cost the city and it's taxpayers thousands upon thousands of dollars. Now, they may come in 4-5 years later? Of course, they'll be seen as the heroic white knights coming to rescue Abbotsford from the Flames' prospects.

I think attendance would improve, but not to the extent that a lot of people say. Wolves games sell out, but I see a difference between a team coming to town versus a team that's always here. I doubt many people would continue to put their money were their mouths are.

 

[go_leafs_go02]

There's one main issue I would have over Aquilini(sp?) coming in to Abbotsford. I know it's ownership versus affiliation, but where was this interest when the city was granted the franchise? Canucks turned down affiliation. Heat ownership went with who said yes, which was the Calgary Flames. I don't know the details of why this ridiculous ten year deal was agreed upon, it has cost the taxpayers a lot of money. A lot!

Arguably, the Canucks thinking affiliation in Abbotsford would be "bad for their business" cost the city and it's taxpayers thousands upon thousands of dollars. Now, they may come in 4-5 years later? Of course, they'll be seen as the heroic white knights coming to rescue Abbotsford from the Flames' prospects.

I think attendance would improve, but not to the extent that a lot of people say. Wolves games sell out, but I see a difference between a team coming to town versus a team that's always here. I doubt many people would continue to put their money were their mouths are.

Mostly because the Canucks relationship with the Manitoba Moose arguably was one of the best NHL/AHL relationships out there. There wasn't a need to move to Abbotsford at that time. Besides, who in 2009 would have guessed Winnipeg actually would have a team back in 2 years - it seemed mostly off the radar to be honest.

 

[The Hutch]

Mostly because the Canucks relationship with the Manitoba Moose arguably was one of the best NHL/AHL relationships out there. There wasn't a need to move to Abbotsford at that time. Besides, who in 2009 would have guessed Winnipeg actually would have a team back in 2 years - it seemed mostly off the radar to be honest.

These are very good points. I suppose I was going from the "A team in our market would be bad for business" stance that was taken when Abbotsford made the offer to Vancouver.

But wasn't the Wolves being run quite similarly to the Moose a prime reason why the Canucks put their affiliation there?

 

[paul-laus]

Besides, who in 2009 would have guessed Winnipeg actually would have a team back in 2 years - it seemed mostly off the radar to be honest.

A 2 year time frame would have been a stretch probably, but the rumors were getting louder and louder. Bettman had already changed his rhetoric from- "we have no intent of re-entering the Winnipeg market at this time" to "They have a fantastic new building and IF the NHL ever did need to relocate, with emphasis on IF, it would be nice to return to an original market that the NHL was familiar with to right what many percieve to be a wrong".

As far back as 4 years ago, on an almost weekly basis, weekend editions in both the Free Press and the Sun had Tim Campbell and Gary Lawless doing lengthy articles about the increasing likelihood of the NHL eventually making a return. True North were open about their intent of entering the fray if an NHL market became available. And it was common knowledge that Atlanta, Columbus, Phoenix, and Florida were failing drastically. The TSN website had a freakin JETS' O METER on it predicting their return. In many ways, the writing was on the wall....

To say that it was unthinkable and outlandish in 2009 that the Jets would be making a return wouldn't really be true as many were starting to see this actually becoming a reality in a few seasons....

 

[adsfan]

adsfan:

I wouldn't trust anything coming out of a Wolves fan, bc they act like the corrupt politicians they elect( Jesse Jackson, Jr, and even Emanuel is the mayor of that city) why are the Wolves based in Chicago proper then, not some annexed portion/village like you constantly see in Canada....

Why is Levin's name rumored then w/ the Coyotes being an NHL franchise, if he was told they were off the table, you cannot rule that out, and we all know his name has popped up in Seattle, and that assumption is false, there is an arena in Seattle set to be built, it brings it up though, Will the Wolves be sold as a part to appease the conflict of interest, if you folks would educate yourself a bit, nothing is ruled in or out, how do you think Williams got in on the Jets'deal w/ the Ice Caps, once they acquired Atlanta.

Being a Milwaukee fan, I don't usually defend the Wolves players or management.

But; the Wolves play in Rosemont, which a suburb next to O'Hare Airport and the City of Chicago, about 15 miles from the loop. If Levin gets his hands on the Coyotes, he will try to leverage them to Seattle, or be like Craig Leipold selling Nashville to buy the Wild, to get to Seattle.

There is an arena in Seattle. From Wikipedia: "The largest arena in the greater Seattle area is the KeyArena. Originally called the Seattle Center Coliseum, the arena opened in 1962. The Thunderbirds played there until the end of the 2008-09 season."

That would be a short term solution until the replacement is built, a la San Jose. The Sonics played there. I am sure it is okay as a temporary solution. I have heard that there is local opposition to the new proposed arena, but that is to the site only.

What conflict of interest? Can't Levin own an AHL team and a NHL team? Or is there something else out there that I don't know about?

 

[axecrew]

adsfan:

I wouldn't trust anything coming out of a Wolves fan, bc they act like the corrupt politicians they elect( Jesse Jackson, Jr, and even Emanuel is the mayor of that city) why are the Wolves based in Chicago proper then, not some annexed portion/village like you constantly see in Canada....

Why is Levin's name rumored then w/ the Coyotes being an NHL franchise, if he was told they were off the table, you cannot rule that out, and we all know his name has popped up in Seattle, and that assumption is false, there is an arena in Seattle set to be built, it brings it up though, Will the Wolves be sold as a part to appease the conflict of interest, if you folks would educate yourself a bit, nothing is ruled in or out, how do you think Williams got in on the Jets'deal w/ the Ice Caps, once they acquired Atlanta.

And here we go again.....that horse has been dead for a long time hutch and it took as long to die as it takes me to type New York Giants and New York Jets....who not only don't play in New York city....they don't even play in New York state proper.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

And here we go again.....that horse has been dead for a long time hutch and it took as long to die as it takes me to type New York Giants and New York Jets....who not only don't play in New York city....they don't even play in New York state proper.

Yet we had to pay state taxes to help build their dump of a stadium. #RIPOFF

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Being a Milwaukee fan, I don't usually defend the Wolves players or management.

But; the Wolves play in Rosemont, which a suburb next to O'Hare Airport and the City of Chicago, about 15 miles from the loop. If Levin gets his hands on the Coyotes, he will try to leverage them to Seattle, or be like Craig Leipold selling Nashville to buy the Wild, to get to Seattle.

There is an arena in Seattle. From Wikipedia: "The largest arena in the greater Seattle area is the KeyArena. Originally called the Seattle Center Coliseum, the arena opened in 1962. The Thunderbirds played there until the end of the 2008-09 season."

That would be a short term solution until the replacement is built, a la San Jose. The Sonics played there. I am sure it is okay as a temporary solution. I have heard that there is local opposition to the new proposed arena, but that is to the site only.

What conflict of interest? Can't Levin own an AHL team and a NHL team? Or is there something else out there that I don't know about?

much like the Bradley Pettits there in Milwaukee, and the Ebright transition to Bullard and Petrovek, in 1998, HERE IN Portland, do you really think Levin wants to own the Wolves in perpetuity, adsfan, there's going to come a day when that option is thrust upon them, but that's why I'm opening that box, even if Vancouver elects to pull out, and Levin does align w/ Hansen in Seattle as has been speculated much like how TNSE pulled that deal off w/ ATL, how did you think Williams got in there in St.John's under that 3 year clause where he had tht option to buy the Ice Caps, something which has since been renegotiated, what other franchises are there that have the PDC expire this upcoming season, other than VAN/CHI? Most of the others are up by 2016, and that's a renewal for those who have the ten year contract, you never know wht conditions the AHL BOG might have.

 

[WolfKeeper]

A group of businessmen practically saved the Admirals by purchasing the team from the Pettit estate -- the owners weren't exactly around. What conflict of interest?

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/04/11/daily35.html
and
http://www.onmilwaukee.com/sports/articles/mketalksharristurer.html

Levin is at almost every home Wolves game. I used to see him every year at the NHL rookie tournament in Traverse City every year when a Wolves affiliated NHL team attended. When the Wolves were on the road a few weeks back in Canada, one night the broadcast team had trouble getting audio out of the arena. Levin called the Wolves color commentator Billy Gardner wondering what had happened to the broadcast -- he was in Central America on business. Fourteen years and he's still following the team closely, sounds like alot of passion is still there.

Especially with the Hawks doing well. Third in the league in attendance this year so far. Those hockey fans who can't afford Hawks tickets have an alternative, especially when their farm club is in the same division.

 

[adsfan]

much like the Bradley Pettits there in Milwaukee, and the Ebright transition to Bullard and Petrovek, in 1998, HERE IN Portland, do you really think Levin wants to own the Wolves in perpetuity, adsfan, there's going to come a day when that option is thrust upon them, but that's why I'm opening that box, even if Vancouver elects to pull out, and Levin does align w/ Hansen in Seattle as has been speculated much like how TNSE pulled that deal off w/ ATL, how did you think Williams got in there in St.John's under that 3 year clause where he had tht option to buy the Ice Caps, something which has since been renegotiated, what other franchises are there that have the PDC expire this upcoming season, other than VAN/CHI? Most of the others are up by 2016, and that's a renewal for those who have the ten year contract, you never know wht conditions the AHL BOG might have.

No. I am pretty sure that Mr. Levin is going to die some day, just like me and you.
The Wolves are averaging 7700 a game. Yeah, he can't wait to dump that team!

 

[Towel-Power]

Mostly because the Canucks relationship with the Manitoba Moose arguably was one of the best NHL/AHL relationships out there. There wasn't a need to move to Abbotsford at that time. Besides, who in 2009 would have guessed Winnipeg actually would have a team back in 2 years - it seemed mostly off the radar to be honest.

Yup. I miss the Manitoba Moose. Such a fantastic organization/place for our prospects to grow. Chicago may be considered a good franchise but I'm not convinced it's best for young kids trying to grow their game. It's really no where near as comfortable as the situation with the Moose.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

This wouldn't really impact the Wolves one way or the other. If for some reason, the Canucks were to leave for points west, Chicago would be without an affiliate for about 30 minutes. They're one of the best franchises in the league; someone would go in there.

Sure the Wolves are good, but don't you remember the ATL dispute of sorts? Wolves cared more about winning and ATL cared more about development. So from that standpoint the Hershey's/Chicago's of the world aren;'t the best from the standpoint.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

Seriously????????????????............................Seriously??????????????

Levin not owning the Wolves? Where'd you hear that juicy nugget? Funny.....A chicago tribune, chicago daily herald, and also a chicago sun-times article....(yes all 3 had articles) Don Levin was quoted as saying he has no intention of selling the Wolves and in fact was recently quoted in a different interview as saying he really would like to own an NHL team so that he'd have more control over players coming to the Wolves. That doesn't sound like a guy looking to get rid of the Wolves.....well maybe on bizzaro world it might.
Believe me.....my scenario has a much better chance at playing out before summer than a sale of phx and a move to an arenaless city in Seattle.

Relax axe, you might get a coronary!!!!

The NHL team owning their AHL affiliate in a different city is completely unheard of and it never happens......

Sure the Wolves are good, but don't you remember the ATL dispute of sorts? Wolves cared more about winning and ATL cared more about development. So from that standpoint the Hershey's/Chicago's of the world aren;'t the best from the standpoint.

The dispute was Atlanta couldn't draft for squat and got rid of any talent they did have. Chevy has a job as GM, Waddell doesn't. Chevy has like 8 championships, Waddell what, 1?

Hershey, let's see - Colorado affiliate, Colorado wins cup. Caps affiliate, Caps have winning seasons. Horrible. Absolutely horrendous. Nashville - playoffs all the time. Admirals - set record for most seasons in a row with something like 40 wins. Vancouver/Manitoba - 'nuf said.

 

[210]

The NHL team owning their AHL affiliate in a different city is completely unheard of and it never happens......

I know, it's so rare it's hard to come up with even one example...oh, wait.

 

[axecrew]

Interesting conversation with an agent at Wolves game today.....he asked me what Id heard about Houston, told him the whole no lease at Toyota center story and asked him why.
He told me that the scenario he's been hearing is as follows.....Calgary leaves abby, Vancouver moves into abby, Houston folds and Minny moves their franchise to Iowa. Yes hutch I know..."Vancouver needs a franchise for abby, how they gonna be there without one"....The last part of what he's heard is Peoria leaving AHL and Vancouver or some group buying their franchise and moving it to abby, thus moving thr Blues players to Wolves. Remember this is all speculation based on what a player agent told me he's heard. Will it happen?? Who knows.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

Relax axe, you might get a coronary!!!!

The NHL team owning their AHL affiliate in a different city is completely unheard of and it never happens......





The dispute was Atlanta couldn't draft for squat and got rid of any talent they did have. Chevy has a job as GM, Waddell doesn't. Chevy has like 8 championships, Waddell what, 1?

Hershey, let's see - Colorado affiliate, Colorado wins cup. Caps affiliate, Caps have winning seasons. Horrible. Absolutely horrendous. Nashville - playoffs all the time. Admirals - set record for most seasons in a row with something like 40 wins. Vancouver/Manitoba - 'nuf said.

Hershey, the NY Yankees of the AHL so to speak. Caps sucked for so long like PITT. All the draft picks like Ovechkin surely didn't hurt. You take Crosby/Malkin/Ovexhkin off their respective teams I bet good money they are middle pack at best all these years.

 

[JB51Hockey]

Interesting conversation with an agent at Wolves game today.....he asked me what Id heard about Houston, told him the whole no lease at Toyota center story and asked him why.
He told me that the scenario he's been hearing is as follows.....Calgary leaves abby, Vancouver moves into abby, Houston folds and Minny moves their franchise to Iowa. Yes hutch I know..."Vancouver needs a franchise for abby, how they gonna be there without one"....The last part of what he's heard is Peoria leaving AHL and Vancouver or some group buying their franchise and moving it to abby, thus moving thr Blues players to Wolves. Remember this is all speculation based on what a player agent told me he's heard. Will it happen?? Who knows.

So where does CGY end up? Chicago?

 

[Rocko604]

Interesting conversation with an agent at Wolves game today.....he asked me what Id heard about Houston, told him the whole no lease at Toyota center story and asked him why.
He told me that the scenario he's been hearing is as follows.....Calgary leaves abby, Vancouver moves into abby, Houston folds and Minny moves their franchise to Iowa. Yes hutch I know..."Vancouver needs a franchise for abby, how they gonna be there without one"....The last part of what he's heard is Peoria leaving AHL and Vancouver or some group buying their franchise and moving it to abby, thus moving thr Blues players to Wolves. Remember this is all speculation based on what a player agent told me he's heard. Will it happen?? Who knows.

Wouldn't that leave Calgary without an affiliate? As an executive from the Abbotsford Heat told me on March 1st, with Ryan Walter standing there, the Heat are locally owned. So, if Calgary has a plan of them playing somewhere else, they'd apparently have to buy out the local owners first.

Media in Vancouver is nearly militant in believing this too, so when they talked about it, all that has to happen is Calgary leaving and the Canucks sliding right in as the franchise itself wouldn't leave Abby.

 

[axecrew]

Calgary ends up in utica......think about it, ever since that rumor broke every side is denying it loudly etc.....and it seems like every time we hear ALL sides spending that much time denying something it usually happens. In this case Calgary, Abbotsford and Utica are all denying the story even though it was started during an interview with one of the guys spearheading the effort to get the A back in Utica

 

[axecrew]

Wouldn't that leave Calgary without an affiliate? As an executive from the Abbotsford Heat told me on March 1st, with Ryan Walter standing there, the Heat are locally owned. So, if Calgary has a plan of them playing somewhere else, they'd apparently have to buy out the local owners first.

Media in Vancouver is nearly militant in believing this too, so when they talked about it, all that has to happen is Calgary leaving and the Canucks sliding right in as the franchise itself wouldn't leave Abby.

Not exactly true.....the AHL franchise is owned by both the Flames and local owners, but don't forget...in the scenario I mentioned Peoria leaves the AHL making their franchise available for purchase. Either the Flames are bought out by local owners and then the Flames buy the Peoria franchise OR the Flames buy out the local owners and move to Utica with the local guys getting Peoria franchise by themselves or maybe in partnership with Canucks.

 

[Judas Tavares]

Interesting conversation with an agent at Wolves game today.....he asked me what Id heard about Houston, told him the whole no lease at Toyota center story and asked him why.
He told me that the scenario he's been hearing is as follows.....Calgary leaves abby, Vancouver moves into abby, Houston folds and Minny moves their franchise to Iowa. Yes hutch I know..."Vancouver needs a franchise for abby, how they gonna be there without one"....The last part of what he's heard is Peoria leaving AHL and Vancouver or some group buying their franchise and moving it to abby, thus moving thr Blues players to Wolves. Remember this is all speculation based on what a player agent told me he's heard. Will it happen?? Who knows.

makes sense

 

[Mightygoose]

Not exactly true.....the AHL franchise is owned by both the Flames and local owners, but don't forget...in the scenario I mentioned Peoria leaves the AHL making their franchise available for purchase. Either the Flames are bought out by local owners and then the Flames buy the Peoria franchise OR the Flames buy out the local owners and move to Utica with the local guys getting Peoria franchise by themselves or maybe in partnership with Canucks.

I find it hard to conceive Peoria being sold as they're owned by the Blues, just so STL can be affiliiated with the Wolves who historically try to win now than being interested in developing palyers for parent club.

Unless, Levin does buy the Yotes to move the Seattle and sells the Wolves to Stillman's group making it the Blues affiliate.

This league may not look the same in 3 months!