A SERIOUS DEBATE: Cam Ward . . .

[Boom Boom Apathy]

In 2011-2012, 19 year old Justin Faulk played 66 games and led all d-men in average TOI. The defense was terrible. When you consider the team play in front of him, Cam's .915 sv% (.914 was league average that year) was not a "below average" performance. Not trying to say he as great...but when I look back at that year, Cam was not a problem.

.914 was the league average when you take ALL goalies, even back-ups. His save % was good for 22nd in the league among starters. Was he the problem with the team that year? Not by any means, and I wasn't saying he was, but his sv% was average-below average when compared to NHL starters. Not sure that is even debatable when he's ranked 22nd. Now, we can reason that there were other influences such as number of shots face, bad defense, possession numbers, etc....but it is what it is. His save % was below average among starters.

In 2012-2013, he started the year with 4 rough starts. The team went 1-3 in those games and he had a .861 sv%. In his last 12 starts the team went 8-3-1 and he had a .921 sv%. I don't look at that year and think he "sucked".

Ok..I choose to base it off of a whole body of work (which is admittedly small). He had a .908 sv% for the whole body of work. Did he have some good parts? yes. Did he have some horrible parts? Yes. Call it what you want, but overall, it wasn't good. Again, I understand injuries came into play and the team struggled as well.

Whatever though, you are focusing on 1 word and missing the whole point of the post. Cam's performance has steadily degraded (for various reasons) from his 10-11 season to where Francis couldn't even move him at all in the offseason. A handful of good games so far this season isn't enough to suddenly make other GMs want to trade for him IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping his good run continues. He looks better recently and I hope it continues no matter what his future is.

 

[Anton Babchuk]

In before impeach estallo calls Ward a career below average goaltender

career wise, he's average at best (to borrow a phrase from ch.com). he's had a few above average seasons but generally nothing special. sorry but if you dig deep you will realize that i am right.

the fact that five good games against weak teams has ignited this disgusting display of verbal ******** of saint wardo says all you need to know. so many people hold 2006 so close to their hearts that they can't accept that ward has been mediocre since and will take any stretch of good play to proclaim that ward is "back." semin had like a 35-game stretch last season where he was a PPG player and people still pointed to his overall season numbers to demonize him as overpaid and underachieving while he scored clutch NHL hockey goal after clutch NHL hockey goal. meanwhile ward still sits at a stunning .900sv% and gets fawning coverage from the press because he had a few good games, mostly against terrible or slumping teams, mostly at home, and with the team doing a great job of limiting shots.

edit: can't believe that word is filtered. hf pls

 

[cptjeff]

I don't think one just comes out of a funk after sucking for 3 years. Is this goalie coach the real deal? You should have seen the goalie at practice today. Their drills were insane. Each goal laid down on their side and took around 60-70 shots making saves with their legs/arms and seeing how many they could stop.

If you ask me, I feel that this goalie coach is paying dividends. If this is truly the case then I am even more pissed at JR and his total lack of team management over the eyars.

Yeah, that's the big factor. Look at Cam's history. Good years? in 2006, he had just come off of working with David Marcoux, when Calagry and Carolina teamed up in the AHL during the lockout. The 2009 era Ward we loved? Tom Barrasso. The crappy years of 2007-8, 2011-13? Greg Stefan. JR brought back a coach who had failed to get the best out of Cam before- and had been fired for it- because he was familiar. Now that we've managed to pull in David Marcoux, who Cam had worked with before to great success, Cam starts playing spectacular hockey again. I don't think it's a coincidence.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Semin had a 33 game stretch between Dec 23rd and March 25th where he went 18-14-32. That was really good. I remember quite a few big goals during that stretch as well.

Of course that means he also went his first 24 games at 2-6-8 which is exactly what you used to call out Ward and Staal a post ago for 11-12 but ending with respectable numbers.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Yeah, that's the big factor. Look at Cam's history. Good years? in 2006, he had just come off of working with David Marcoux, when Calagry and Carolina teamed up in the AHL during the lockout. The 2009 era Ward we loved? Tom Barrasso. The crappy years of 2007-8, 2011-13? Greg Stefan. JR brought back a coach who had failed to get the best out of Cam before- and had been fired for it- because he was familiar. Now that we've managed to pull in David Marcoux, who Cam had worked with before to great success, Cam starts playing spectacular hockey again. I don't think it's a coincidence.

That makes sense and I hope you are right. I've never understood Stefan being around as long as he was.

 

[rocky7]

the fact that five good games against weak teams has ignited this disgusting display of verbal ******** of saint wardo says all you need to know. so many people hold 2006 so close to their hearts that they can't accept that ward has been mediocre since and will take any stretch of good play to proclaim that ward is "back." semin had like a 35-game stretch last season where he was a PPG player and people still pointed to his overall season numbers to demonize him as overpaid and underachieving while he scored clutch NHL hockey goal after clutch NHL hockey goal. meanwhile ward still sits at a stunning .900sv% and gets fawning coverage from the press because he had a few good games, mostly against terrible or slumping teams, mostly at home, and with the team doing a great job of limiting shots.

Truth!

to say anything definitive about the early losing streak, the current winning streak, anyone's play, the coach, etc., is just way premature still. as aggravating as the media is, it lowers the blood pressure by just accepting that this is what they do and it really defines who they are. trouble is, most fans are deceived. some aren't.

 

[What the Faulk]

I'm curious, someone go to War on Ice and tell me what Ward's even strength adjusted save percentage was since 06-07 and maximize the mins (think it caps at 1200) and where he ranks. I'm on mobile at the moment. If no one does I'll probably check in a few hours. I'm sure it helps, but I just wonder how much.

 

[tomdundo]

I'm curious, someone go to War on Ice and tell me what Ward's even strength adjusted save percentage was since 06-07 and maximize the mins (think it caps at 1200) and where he ranks. I'm on mobile at the moment. If no one does I'll probably check in a few hours. I'm sure it helps, but I just wonder how much.

It caps at 2400 mins, but Khudobin is #2 with a .931(sample size, obviously) with Ward at #22 with a .924. Ward is just below Miller, Bernier, and Bobrovsky. Just above Niittymaki, Bishop, Enroth, Quick, and Price.

 

[RodTheBawd]

Semin had a 33 game stretch between Dec 23rd and March 25th where he went 18-14-32. That was really good. I remember quite a few big goals during that stretch as well.

Of course that means he also went his first 24 games at 2-6-8 which is exactly what you used to call out Ward and Staal a post ago for 11-12 but ending with respectable numbers.

Glad I wasn't the only to notice. The dude is a walking contradiction.

 

[bluedevil58*]

I am so confused.

 

[What the Faulk]

It caps at 2400 mins, but Khudobin is #2 with a .931(sample size, obviously) with Ward at #22 with a .924. Ward is just below Miller, Bernier, and Bobrovsky. Just above Niittymaki, Bishop, Enroth, Quick, and Price.

Hm so his (and Khudobin's) league standing doesn't really change from unadjusted ES sv% but it sounds like his company does. What if we chalk up the last two seasons to injury and only look at the time frame before?

 

[tomdundo]

Hm so his (and Khudobin's) league standing doesn't really change from unadjusted ES sv% but it sounds like his company does. What if we chalk up the last two seasons to injury and only look at the time frame before?

If it runs from 2006-2007 through 2011-2012, we get him at #11 with a .927. Immediately behind Varlamov, Rinne, and Miller. Immediately ahead of Rask, Crawford, and Smith.

 

[What the Faulk]

That's actually a lot higher than I would have thought. And since we're dealing with many years and a lowish minute cap, I have to think that's 11 out of 40-50 goalies. He's still making a lot, but that's pretty solid for a starter. If he can stay healthy and he's truly rebounded, the Ward of 2006-2012 could turn this team from bubble to solidly in. Thanks for doing the dirty work for me.

 

[tomdundo]

That's actually a lot higher than I would have thought. And since we're dealing with many years and a lowish minute cap, I have to think that's 11 out of 40-50 goalies. He's still making a lot, but that's pretty solid for a starter. If he can stay healthy a difference he's truly rebounded, the Ward of 2006-2012 could turn this team from bubble to solidly in. Thanks for doing the dirty work for me.

There were 62 goalies in the second list, of which 15 had played in fewer than 100 games (Montoya, Leclaire, Leighton, Reimer, Schneider, Harding, Emery, Labarbera, Raycroft, MacDonald, Toskala, Johnson, Bobrovsky, Huet, Auld). Mostly backup fodder, though some of those were future starters.


It's also appalling just how horrid Leclaire was.

 

[rocky7]

I'm not prepared to say that Ward has his head straightened out and is now back in the zone after a few games, but I do think that his play is the biggest factor that has given this team a series of wins as of late.

 

[What the Faulk]

There were 62 goalies in the second list, of which 15 had played in fewer than 100 games (Montoya, Leclaire, Leighton, Reimer, Schneider, Harding, Emery, Labarbera, Raycroft, MacDonald, Toskala, Johnson, Bobrovsky, Huet, Auld). Mostly backup fodder, though some of those were future starters.


It's also appalling just how horrid Leclaire was.

IIRC Dipietro just misses the sample size, but during the latter part of his career he made Leclaire look like a Verona candidate.

 

[tomdundo]

IIRC Dipietro just misses the sample size, but during the latter part of his career he made Leclaire look like a Verona candidate.

.8971 for Leclaire compared to a .8972 for Dipietro.



EDIT: Just realized they only have goalie stats from 2008-2009 onward. So that's the information we're going off of. I was wondering why it only showed Dipietro playing 46 games.

 

[What the Faulk]

Maybe I had the years off or maybe it was unadjusted or something. I was looking at Fleury after his contract and I remember Dipietro being a huge outlier

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

IIRC Dipietro just misses the sample size, but during the latter part of his career he made Leclaire look like a Verona candidate.

my verona

when ya gonna give me some time, verona?

 

[AD Skinner]

IIRC Dipietro just misses the sample size, but during the latter part of his career he made Leclaire look like a Verona candidate.

Two goalies, both alike in dignity

 

[What the Faulk]

Dammit autocorrect and my lack of desire to proofread

 

[Ole Gil]

Historically, healthy Cam Ward has looked a lot better than dinged/rehabbing Cam Ward. Personally, I'm just holding my breath he doesn't get hit by a rogue zamboni, or have Ron Hainsey toss someone on his head (again), leading to another fluke injury.

 

[VAcaniac]

Historically, healthy Cam Ward has looked a lot better than dinged/rehabbing Cam Ward. Personally, I'm just holding my breath he doesn't get hit by a rogue zamboni, or have Ron Hainsey toss someone on his head (again), leading to another fluke injury.

He'll probably break his ankle playing soccer before the game.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Two goalies, both alike in dignity

This would make sense if we weren't talking about DiPietro.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

From Adam Gold's twitter:

Ward: "I can admit that for a time I had lost my confidence. Dave Marcoux has been a huge help. Things kind of boiled over for me last year. It's difficult when you're not enjoying the game and having fun. Ron gave me a call and told me I wasn't in the plans to come back, but then, later in the summer he said I was in the plans. This is where I want to be. This is where my family wants to be. This is home for me."

With a NTC, seems unlikely he's going anywhere, regardless of how he plays.